• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Fury as Israel president claims English are 'anti-semitic

Status
Not open for further replies.
sounds to me like he's anti-anglo-saxon.

The anglo-saxons make only a small part of the English community.
We've already debated this in the English ethnicity thread spud, don't give me a headache. :2razz:
 
The anglo-saxons make only a small part of the English community.
We've already debated this in the English ethnicity thread spud, don't give me a headache. :2razz:

ok, he's anti-your-choice-of-western-european-racial-designation.
 
Amazing how the British press has no shame at all in twisting words.
He hasn't made the claim that "England is an anti-Semitic country".

He has said, and I translate it from Hebrew, that "Britain was always against us, was always extremely pro-Arab and anti-Israeli".
And has also said later on that "In Britain there is a saying that an anti-Semite is someone who hates the Jews more than necessary".

So yes, I completely agree with him, Britain is undoubtedly the most anti-Israeli country in Europe and it is indeed a home to many anti-Semites.

Weren't they on your side during the Suez crisis? Aren't they the ones who allowed the creation of the Israeli state in 1948? When did they do anything that was against Israeli interests?

Furthermore I fail to see when Israel has been "pro-European".
 
Last edited:
Feel free to refer me to the statistics concerning racism in general, the article already gives you info about the drastic rise in anti-Semitism.



It simply means Peres is correct. Britain is indeed extremely anti-Israeli and pro-Arab, it needs to be pointed out since so many Israeli officials are acting as if Britain has Israeli interests in its mind.

I note that the article didn't quote a single British Jewish politician or community leader agreeing with Peres. The increase in anti-semitic crime certainly has occurred, along with all hate crimes, especially those against homosexuals and Moslems. Hate crime is an increasing problem, probably economically driven, but to suggest that it is limited to anti-semitism and that this is related to the actions of and attitude towards Israel is stretching the interpretation of currently available data.
 
Weren't they on your side during the Suez crisis?

Yes, when they were effected by Egypt's nationalism of the Suez cannel they too have taken action against it.

Aren't they the ones who allowed the creation of the Israeli state in 1948?

No, that would be the UN.
Britain has canceled the Mandate and has left its future in the hands of the UN, which has decided on the partition plan.

When did they do anything that was against Israeli interests?

At every given possibility.
The academic boycott on Israeli universities, the refusal to sell arms to Israel because they were used in the Gaza War, etc etc.
But mostly of course in their statements and their taken stance against Israel in the Israeli-Arab conflict.

Furthermore I fail to see when Israel has been "pro-European".

Since when was Israel anti-European?
Israel has never taken an action against European interests.
 
I note that the article didn't quote a single British Jewish politician or community leader agreeing with Peres.

There clearly are many British Jews who feel the same, and the article while biased does mention support coming from pro-Israeli groups' for Peres' statement and gives the example of the director of the Christian Friends of Israel organization.

The increase in anti-semitic crime certainly has occurred, along with all hate crimes, especially those against homosexuals and Moslems. Hate crime is an increasing problem, probably economically driven, but to suggest that it is limited to anti-semitism and that this is related to the actions of and attitude towards Israel is stretching the interpretation of currently available data.

To suggest that Peres or any of the people who've agreed with him in this thread have made any suggestion at all that hate crimes are limited to anti-Semitism is to engage in a straw man argument and in the twisting of the facts.
Besides that, while a significant portion of anti-Israeli sentiments are originating from anti-Semitic sentiments, no one was claiming that the two are equal and in fact they are not.
Peres is using two terms in the article, "anti-Israeli" to describe the British state's sentiments and "anti-Semitic" to describe the anti-Jewish sentiments that are on the raise in Britain.
 
At every given possibility.
The academic boycott on Israeli universities

Canadians and Americans do the same

the refusal to sell arms to Israel because they were used in the Gaza War, etc etc.

They were absolutely right, and there were talks in Belgium and in many other EU countries about doing the same. Unfortunately, UK didn't really refuse to sell arms, only a few contracts about the Israeli Navy have been cancelled.


But mostly of course in their statements and their taken stance against Israel in the Israeli-Arab conflict.

Which anti-Israeli statements?

Since when was Israel anti-European?
Israel has never taken an action against European interests.

Israel has repeatedly refused the entrance of EU MEP in Palestine.

Israel denies Belgian Minister Charles Michel entry into Gaza - New Europe
Maan News Agency: European aid groups ask Foreign Ministers to send Gaza delegation
 
Canadians and Americans do the same

That's simply not true.
Perhaps you are speaking about specific faculty personnel from Canada and America who as individuals boycott Israel's institutions, but Britain's universities union has been enforcing a boycott on Israeli universities a few years ago.

They were absolutely right

They were absolutely anti-Israeli.

Which anti-Israeli statements?

I won't list all of the anti-Israeli statements now.
Simply look at Cameron's recent statement where he was claiming that Gaza is a prison camp.

Israel has repeatedly refused the entrance of EU MEP in Palestine.

And by what insane and inhuman logic does that constitute as an anti-European policy?
Israel has denied eveyone access to the Gaza Strip, that was part of the blockade oh wise one.
 
That's simply not true.
Perhaps you are speaking about specific faculty personnel from Canada and America who as individuals boycott Israel's institutions, but Britain's universities union has been enforcing a boycott on Israeli universities a few years ago.

I don't see the difference, these were also British individuals, not a government boycott.



They were absolutely anti-Israeli.

Then all of Europe is anti-Israeli since we did the same



I won't list all of the anti-Israeli statements now.
Simply look at Cameron's recent statement where he was claiming that Gaza is a prison camp.

That's not being anti-Israeli. He criticizes a policy (the blockade) that is seen as wrong by most of Europe. Most Europeans want the blockade to be lifted.
 
I don't see the difference, these were also British individuals, not a government boycott.

It's the British high-education faculties union, not an individual who happens to be a faculty member.
By placing a boycott on Israeli universities they were cutting any form of connection and co-operation between the British faculties and the Israeli ones.
That's obviously incomparable with some Canadian/American loon who boycotts Israel in general and happens to be a faculty member.

Then all of Europe is anti-Israeli since we did the same

Wrong again, Britain is the only one I know of to cancel military contracts with Israel due to politics.

That's not being anti-Israeli. He criticizes a policy (the blockade) that is seen as wrong by most of Europe. Most Europeans want the blockade to be lifted.

He didn't merely criticize the military embargo on the Strip, he has claimed it is a prison camp, aligning himself with anti-Israeli opinions.
 
It's the British high-education faculties union, not an individual who happens to be a faculty member.

Still separate from UK Government.
If the British Government instigated a boycott, it would be over alot more than just education
 
Still separate from UK Government.
If the British Government instigated a boycott, it would be over alot more than just education

I don't disagree, I gave this as an example of the extreme anti-Israeli sentiments in British society.
I have also given examples of anti-Israeli actions and statements taken and made by the British government.
 
I don't disagree, I gave this as an example of the extreme anti-Israeli sentiments in British society.
I have also given examples of anti-Israeli actions and statements taken and made by the British government.

Fair enough. I don't attempt to deny that the British public in polls swing more towards Palestinians than Israel.

I don't see where Cameron calling Gaza a prison camp = Anti Israel.
I guess I am one too if that is what it takes to get that label.

What is annoying is the remarks about the Muslim vote.
If Muslims had the same amount of power as some of the Israel lobbys in the US. UK foreign policy would be unrecognisable.

Not to mention statistically immigrants in UK, especially Asian/Muslim ones are least likely to cast their vote in elections. Some power we wield over our MPs. :roll:
 
Last edited:
I don't see where Cameron calling Gaza a prison camp = Anti Israel.
I guess I am one too if that is what it takes to get that label.

I'm not saying that anyone who'd state that automatically becomes an anti-Israeli.
This statement however comes from a clear and obvious anti-Israeli nature, taking to the belief that the Gaza Strip is a prison camp.
That's a view that is promoted by anti-Israelis.

What is annoying is the remarks about the Muslim vote.
If Muslims had the same amount of power as some of the Israel lobbys in the US. UK foreign policy would be unrecognisable.

Actually I believe Muslims have much more power in the UK than Jews are having in the US, if only due to the fact that Muslims make a much higher percentage of the British population than Jews make of the American one.
We're speaking here about pure and simple voting power, not about some conspiracy theory including a Muslim secret order that is manipulating the British government from the shadows.
 
I'm not saying that anyone who'd state that automatically becomes an anti-Israeli.
This statement however comes from a clear and obvious anti-Israeli nature, taking to the belief that the Gaza Strip is a prison camp.
That's a view that is promoted by anti-Israelis.

So tainted by association for having a similar opinion on that one particular issue?

Actually I believe Muslims have much more power in the UK than Jews are having in the US, if only due to the fact that Muslims make a much higher percentage of the British population than Jews make of the American one.
We're speaking here about pure and simple voting power, not about some conspiracy theory including a Muslim secret order that is manipulating the British government from the shadows.

I really wish we British Muslims did have the immense power people believe we actually wield.
Jews have money in US which give them influence. Muslims do not have that.
We also have no organisation, no pressure groups and we are heavily based in the North in Labour constituents - Which incase you haven't noticed, are not in Government and haven't been for a while.
 
So tainted by association for having a similar opinion on that one particular issue?

The statement Cameron has made is an anti-Israeli statement in its nature, it's not merely connected with anti-Israeli sentiments, it is being promoted by and is promoting anti-Israeli sentiments.

I really wish we British Muslims did have the immense power people believe we actually wield.

Voting power is a real and active power.

Jews have money in US which give them influence. Muslims do not have that.

Yes, that's the common assertion, those rich J00s are controlling and manipulating the American government using their money.
I have to admit that I'm more than surprised to see such an assertion coming from you.
 
Voting power is a real and active power.

So then Muslims have no power.
We are a minority, spread out across constituents and the country. Not to mention voting in a first past the post system which renders individual votes meaningless.
Real power indeed

Yes, that's the common assertion, those rich J00s are controlling and manipulating the American government using their money.
I have to admit that I'm more than surprised to see such an assertion coming from you.

No one said anything about controlling US Government.
Why surprised from me?
Muslims in Europe especially first generation immigrants are generally poor or on low bracket wages.
I don't get the Jewish aversion to admitting it, Muslims in US have money as well, they just do not put it to good use.
If Muslims in Europe had money, ofc we'd be attempting to lobby for changes in policy. Who wouldn't? :shrug:
 
Last edited:
And has also said later on that "In Britain there is a saying that an anti-Semite is someone who hates the Jews more than necessary".

Just out of interest has anyone from the UK ever heard that "saying"? I have never heard it once and I haven't been able to find anyone who has.
 
Last edited:
Just out of interest has anyone from the UK ever heard that saying? I lived in England for over 20 years and I never heard it once and I haven't been able to find anyone who has.

Got lots of friends from the UK and I've never heard them even mention Jews to begin with, let alone heard them use that expression. I've heard much nastier things said by Swiss people, tho.
 
Got lots of friends from the UK and I've never heard them even mention Jews to begin with, let alone heard them use that expression. I've heard much nastier things said by Swiss people, tho.

Yes, now you got me thinking I have heard a few, and the Germans and the French, sorry Paris, and the US and yes the Australians, but I have never heard that expression and yes, I have never heard anyone talking about Jews either. Muslims yes, Jews no.
 
I never heard it, I doubt any Brit has done. All the Jewish members of Parliament must wonder where their votes came from. :roll: Someone did compare Israeli actions against Gazans as comparable to the Nazi's, but then he should know, His bedridden grandmother was shot by the Nazis.
 
Yes, now you got me thinking I have heard a few, and the Germans and the French, sorry Paris, and the US and yes the Australians, but I have never heard that expression and yes, I have never heard anyone talking about Jews either. Muslims yes, Jews no.

Well, I admit of being guilty of a similar saying in French. I once said during one of our funny family suppers, in an attempt to mock the basic/Catholic anti-semitic French stance, that it was only "un anti-sémitisme de bon aloi" ... It made my Jewish step-father laugh out loud! I was very proud of this because he often makes me laugh. Another evening when I suggested that our cat might also be Jewish, he said: "Stop, you're gonna scare it":)
 
Last edited:

I wouldn't be too concerned about 'honest reporting'. I was listening to a video today where it was mentioned. Whenever the BBC or anyone else is critical of Israel it organises a barrage of emails from all sorts of place and all kinds of people who have not even seen the show. It sounds like a propoganda agency.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom