Flags...not just a piece of colored cloth

[CaptainCourtesy]

or...now think on this good, now...or maybe I am just a human being who is more in touch with their self and their emotions.

Anger is very human. To deny that on some internet forum and act all superior is just stupid. We are still cavemen, biologically.

It may not be flag burning for you, but I can bet the farm YOU, like the rest of us, have your "triggers", and once pulled you can and will " go medieval on someone".

Maybe some perv with his phone taking an upskirt pic of your daughter

Maybe some pushy loudmouthed jerk in front of you at the checkout line

Who knows, but I DO KNOW, all of us have them.

Keep your "holier than me" attitude for church.

In front of a crowd, I can goad you into attacking me physically in less than 15 minutes. Don't deny your biology, and act all high and mighty. You are neither.

I KNOW if some crosses that line with me, then I AM, CAN, and WILL knock their dick in the dirt. And sleep just fine that night.

CONVERSELY, you will NEVER see me react to any drunk in any bar, no matter what they say or try. Too many years of Shore Patrol let me know how to deal with loud mouthed drunks. They are nothing.

Seeing the US flag being burned is my trigger, and in 15 minutes, I can find yours. We ALL have them.

Oh, knock off the internet tough guy act. You're not impressing anyone. Fact is, that he's right. Respecting the flag without respecting the symbol behind it disrespects the flag.

 

[Tigerace117]

so when you say america "loves freedom" you mean since like when? 1980, 1990? since when exactly?

excluding muslims of course ya know because its not like america did anything to muslims or the middle east before 9/11, so thats totally their fault lol

So it's ok to kill thousands of civillians because America "did something".

Osama was pissed because instead of using his cave crawlers the Saudis decided to have the non Muslim Americans defend them during the Gulf War from Saddam and his military, which was the strongest in that region at the time.

Every Great Power has gotten involved in areas outside of their own country at one point or another. Every. Single. One. If, say, Iraq or Venezuela had had the power to intervene in countries half way around the world they would have.

But yeah, apparently you think 9/11 was justified because we kicked Saddam's ass in the Gulf War but dared step foot on Saudi soil.

And seeing as unlike the Euros we've never been a dicatatorship......

 

[Fishking]

so when you say america "loves freedom" you mean since like when? 1980, 1990? since when exactly?

excluding muslims of course ya know because its not like america did anything to muslims or the middle east before 9/11, so thats totally their fault lol

So name any country that hasn't had dark parts in their history. Just one. That aside *cough* a communist throwing stones doesn't really rate any credibility.

 

[Goshin]

Recently there has been some major misunderstandings about the symbolism of our countriesflag. Most just say it is a piece ofcloth and does not matter at all, and because of that, it is just fine to burnit in anger and profane it in other ways. This attitude is 100% wrong , in my opinion, and if you care to readalong, I would like to explain why I feel it is.
No…It is notjust a piece of colored cloth.

In 1979 theLGBT community adopted a flag for rainbow colors to represent their communityand their struggles for equal treatment under the law. Its 6 colors are normally flown with red ontop and they represent the following…
RED forlife, ORANGE for healing, YELLOW for sunlight, GREEN for nature, BLUE forharmony, and VIOLET for their spirit.
The ralliedaround this flag and it served as a uniting image for their cause and struggle. This uniting is what brought about the recentSupreme Court decision approving gay unions nationwide.Their flag gave them unity and strength toachieve this.
NO…It is notjust a piece of colored cloth

In So...snip... K from their flag that wentnowhere. It means that much to them.
NO…it is notjust a piece of colored cloth.

To me, oneof the most inspiring photographs I ever saw was of a small beat up buildingwith a sign over it that read, “ U S Post Office, Khe Sahn “ and tied up highup in a leafless stick of a tree is a small US flag flying over it. The siege of Khe Sahn was never broken by theNVA, and that little US flag was there as a symbol of our defiance.
NO…it is nota piece of colored cloth.

Now, thinkof the mindset of anyone that would want to profane any of these symbols youjust read about. Their desire to destroythese symbols tells me they hate what they stand for and not only want todestroy the symbol, but the ideas and people behind them as well.
Yes, it islegal to profane the symbol of our nation. I am not talking about legalities.I am talking about the MOTIVATIONS and desires of those that wish it so.

THAT my dearfriends is why I get upset when I see the symbol of our freedom loving countryprofaned by those that hate that symbol and want to destroy it. You can bet your last dollar they do not wantto stop at just burning the flag.
It is mypersonal opinion the act of profaning any flag is showing utter distain and hatredof what it symbolizes. Just ask them asthey are doing it and they will tell you so.

Would really appreciate it if you'd use a normal size font for main text. I took one look at the small text and decided not to read it, because I'd either have to accept the eye strain or use the zoom function which is kind of an unnecessary PITA.

Pity because I was interested in what you had to say.

 

[Leo]

I do not condemn then for that opinion. I condemn them for PROFANING the symbol of our nation, because in doing so, they also profane the nation itself and all it stand for.

but I have said that like a bazillion times before.

People hear what they want to hear. Deaf to everything else.

I have also said a bazillion times, if those doing the burning had their way, NONE of the rights they enjoy would exist anymore. Just ask them. The flag burners are totalitarian freedom hating pukes.

I have only beat the living dog crap out of maybe 11 people in my life. The times I got beat are more, but you learn more and more each time till you get to a point it does not happen anymore.

All 11 times, only 2 I completely enjoyed. They were both loud-mouthed privileged Mercedes Marxists who cussed their country up one side and down the other, all the while having an American Express Gold Card in their wallet. Some of us do not have enough money to be a communist.

PS...I also learned the hard way to NOT turn your beer mug upside down on the bar when in the UK. Thank God, I did not know what I was doing. I was forgiven...ONCE.

I can understand that you are not best pleased when the flag you served under is not shown what you would consider sufficient respect. I consider burning or defacing someone's national emblem ill-mannered and reprehensible, but the point I was making was - irrespective of how important our respective national flags may be to us - that significance may not be shared by everyone we encounter, including our compatriots.

It is not, I believe, an illegal act to deface the flag in my country, nor I suspect, in yours. However much such actions, or opinions, may irritate us, they do not legally entitle us to wreak violence upon anyone. So I hope you escaped the legal consequences of 'beating the living dog crap out of maybe 11 people'.

There can be many reasons, personal and public, why a person may revile certain aspects of his society, and 'Caesar's wife need not always be above suspicion'. In fact, I would not like to live in a society wherein criticism thereof is not permitted. It is only by analysing and criticising our respective societies that improvements thereto may be wrought. And most of our achievements and freedoms were obtained by means of academic progress, research and civic law - so while national symbols have their place, they are not sacrosanct.

BTW, I am 20, and have been studying in Australia since my mid teens, so I have no idea of pub protocol in the UK.

 

[Mr Person]

In 1979 theLGBT community adopted a flag for rainbow colors to represent their communityand their struggles for equal treatment under the law. Its 6 colors are normally flown with red ontop and they represent the following…
RED forlife, ORANGE for healing, YELLOW for sunlight, GREEN for nature, BLUE forharmony, and VIOLET for their spirit.
The ralliedaround this flag and it served as a uniting image for their cause and struggle. This uniting is what brought about the recentSupreme Court decision approving gay unions nationwide.Their flag gave them unity and strength toachieve this.

They didn't have the strength to achieve the equal protection of the law until somebody sewed a flag? What?

No, see, the symbol is made after the thing, to symbolize it.

Symbol =/= Symbolized.




(I know, this probably means I "hate" America, want to "destroy" it yadda yadda yadda.... )

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

Would really appreciate it if you'd use a normal size font for main text. I took one look at the small text and decided not to read it, because I'd either have to accept the eye strain or use the zoom function which is kind of an unnecessary PITA.

Pity because I was interested in what you had to say.

my most profound apologies.

I wrote it in word because of the time-out situation in posts. You get half way through and them everything you just wrote is gone. So I wrote it in Word at 14 size, and the system posted it in that small font to get it all on one page I guess.

again, I apologize.

I figured the "Hate America" vultures would swoop down and pick it apart piecemeal if I tried to break it up into three separate posts.

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

So name any country that hasn't had dark parts in their history. Just one. That aside *cough* a communist throwing stones doesn't really rate any credibility.

They have ZERO credibility to say anything about anything as far as I am concerned.

Their own history has already spoken for them.

We all know what they are about and how they act.

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

They didn't have the strength to achieve the equal protection of the law until somebody sewed a flag? What?

No, see, the symbol is made after the thing, to symbolize it.

Symbol =/= Symbolized.




(I know, this probably means I "hate" America, want to "destroy" it yadda yadda yadda.... )

Once again, you are 100% completely wrong. The LGBT community did not have hardly any of the rights they have today than they did in 1979.

Look it up. It was not JUST their flag, but them have a flag to rally around has always been a good way to get people to rally.

Like their flag, the world is not all back & white, like you seem to see it.

I associate flag burning akin to book burning, and akin to the MOB MENTALITY.

PEOPLE are usually next.

Just read these posts, and look at all the vile crap I have been called, and the insinuations made about me just for making a post about flags having special meaning to some people.

You are one of them, BTW...so you probably cannot see it, but a whole lot of other people have.

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

Oh, knock off the internet tough guy act. You're not impressing anyone. Fact is, that he's right. Respecting the flag without respecting the symbol behind it disrespects the flag.

Aww, come on, can't I be the little chickenhawk of Foghorn Leghorn cartoons just for 5 more minutes.

(pushing my hat forward, chomping a cigar stub and squinting my eyes in a menacing manner)

(but knowing as I typed that I was in my underwear, sipping sweet tea, and constantly having to push my fat cat off sleeping on top my keyboard and accidentally hitting the F keys)

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Once again, you are 100% completely wrong. The LGBT community did not have hardly any of the rights they have today than they did in 1979.

Look it up. It was not JUST their flag, but them have a flag to rally around has always been a good way to get people to rally.

Like their flag, the world is not all back & white, like you seem to see it.

I associate flag burning akin to book burning, and akin to the MOB MENTALITY.

PEOPLE are usually next.

Just read these posts, and look at all the vile crap I have been called, and the insinuations made about me just for making a post about flags having special meaning to some people.

You are one of them, BTW...so you probably cannot see it, but a whole lot of other people have.

In bold. That's not the problem. The problem is how you refer to and speak about those of whom the flag does NOT have a special meaning. If you want respect for your positions, don't you think it would be appropriate to have respect for those who have differing positions?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Aww, come on, can't I be the little chickenhawk of Foghorn Leghorn cartoons just for 5 more minutes.

(pushing my hat forward, chomping a cigar stub and squinting my eyes in a menacing manner)

I'll admit. I like the word "menacing".

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

In bold. That's not the problem. The problem is how you refer to and speak about those of whom the flag does NOT have a special meaning. If you want respect for your positions, don't you think it would be appropriate to have respect for those who have differing positions?

I care nothing about having the respect of flag burners. Their very actions tell me they are incapable of respecting what I hold dear.
My life and being have done well by doing so.
I have no intention to try and please everyone. It is an impossible thing to do anyway.

What I can only do is show RESPECT for their different ideas, AS LONG AS...as long as....they also RESPECT mine.

burning our nations flag tells me they do not.

I have been all over the world and done fine with everyone I have met. Including two Communist countries.

If you give respect, then you will get respect.

Did I tear down Chairman Mao posters in China? NO, I did not.
Did I force down the yucky food they fed me and drank their beer? Yes, I did.

respect is a two way street.

The flag / book / people burners have not learned that, and neither do they care.

What they think is not worth two dead flies.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I care nothing about having the respect of flag burners. Their very actions tell me they are incapable of respecting what I hold dear.

Then accept that some may believe that the flag having special meaning for you is not something that they respect. It cuts both ways.

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

Then accept that some may believe that the flag having special meaning for you is not something that they respect. It cuts both ways.

I already know that...and accept that. That is why I bust them in the mouth.

You need to understand, it was THEY who took DISRESPECTFUL action first.

That comes with a price tag. It always does when someone DISRESPECTS what others hold precious and dear.

It is that same reason I did not smack those stupid cows out of my way when I was in India.
Or did not tears down the Mao posters in China
Or piss on the hammer & cycle workers posters in old Yugoslavia

Respect. They have none and show none....and deserve none.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I already know that...and accept that. That is why I bust them in the mouth.

This is you trying to be "menacing" again, isn't it? It needs a lot of work.

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

no...I am just trying to get you to also see my side of things and where I am coming from, which you have not.

You have only taken the side of the flag burners in everything.

You need to see from my point of view also.

You need to see that after travelling all over the world, I have learned to respect and NOT profane what other people hold dear.

You can not see that.

You do not see what they are doing is completely unacceptable to me, and a whole lot of others.

You do not see what they are doing as completely disrespectful to a majority of Americans.

Therefore, as you refuse to see my side and can only see theirs, I choose to finish this conversation.

You are very polite, and I will give you that, but not even once have you tried to see things as I do.

You only chose to see things from the side of the flag burners. That makes you one-sided.

I know I am one-sided on this issue, and always will be.

That is why I have that despised and hated flag in front of my house.

It is NOT an intellectual discussion with me.

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

This is you trying to be "menacing" again, isn't it? It needs a lot of work.

No it does not need any work. I prefer to "menace" the enemies of our nation, and what its flag stand for.

Proud of it, actually.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

No it does not need any work. I prefer to "menace" the enemies of our nation, and what its flag stand for.

Proud of it, actually.

It needs work. You're not very menacing.

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

It needs work. You're not very menacing.

NO ONE IS....on the internet.

but I have a few medals, ribbons, and certificate of appreciation that say otherwise in the real world.

and a few external and internal scars.

plus a reputation that a FLEET FIRST CLASS is honorbound to uphold.

I will give you this in all honesty....You DO live up to your screen name. Not once to you get profane, shut names, or get too personal with those you disagree with. You keep your cool like a true gentleman.

Me...not so much. That reputation is a heavy burden sometimes. Delightful at others.

but you will note, I gave courtesy back when given it.

That is a life lesson those flag burners will never get.

 

[1751Texan]

Yup...it is pure physics.

You poke our buttons, then you get yours poked.

Carry a sign with some slogan instead,... chances are we might even agree with you and make one of our own and join you.

but...burn OUR flag, and you will get a completely emotional and unrehearsed REACTION, and it WILL be physical, and it WILL be not to your liking.

Legalities have nothing to do with it.

There is also a good chance, the cops will let us finish with you first, before we are arrested.

Then...what if the judge lost his dad or brother at Khe Sahn?

You flag burners need to contemplate things like this before you poke the tiger.

I could plead temporary insanity, and I would be correct. INNOCENT by reason of temporary insanity, and meanwhile that flag burner has two broken collar bones, a fractured eye socket, and cracked ribs.

THINK before you poke the tiger.

A lot of us veterans are on the edge anyway. Do you REALLY what to push our buttons?

THINK before you poke the tiger.

What a load of crap. We are a nation of laws first and foremost. To believe non-direct provocation is grounds for battery is moronic and counter the Rule of Law...the very principal which makes this nation great.

To be uncontrolled of one's emotions is the very definition of undisciplined...and is as juvenile a reaction as an "adult" can have.

 

[justabubba]

no...I am just trying to get you to also see my side of things and where I am coming from, which you have not.

You have only taken the side of the flag burners in everything.

You need to see from my point of view also.

You need to see that after travelling all over the world, I have learned to respect and NOT profane what other people hold dear.

You can not see that.

You do not see what they are doing is completely unacceptable to me, and a whole lot of others.

You do not see what they are doing as completely disrespectful to a majority of Americans.

Therefore, as you refuse to see my side and can only see theirs, I choose to finish this conversation.

You are very polite, and I will give you that, but not even once have you tried to see things as I do.

You only chose to see things from the side of the flag burners. That makes you one-sided.

I know I am one-sided on this issue, and always will be.

That is why I have that despised and hated flag in front of my house.

It is NOT an intellectual discussion with me.

finally, a point of this debate with which we are in agreement

 

[Grand Mal]

How would folks feel about people burning the LGBT rainbow flag, I wonder.

What about flying the flag upside-down?

 

[notquiteright]

but we are the ones tasked with protecting it...AND...we are the ONLY ONES that see profaning it as wrong and will actually do something about it. When we see a wrong, and profaning the flag is, we step in and stop that wrong. We are people of action, not theoretical words. In ANY nation's military, having your flag captured by the enemy is a great DISHONOR. Standing by and allowing it to be dishonored is just as bad. Maybe that is the difference. Even most civilians know this fact. but those that HATE what it stands for don't care. If it is just a piece of colored cloth, then why are they so RABID about destroying it? It is because they also know it means one hell of a lot. They know it is not, and that is why they make it a target....and that is why WE make them a target for doing so.

So what's this 'WE' crap??? And when were 'we' ever 'tasked' with protecting it? Did you actually fire upon those attacking the flag under orders? Did you ever ordered to defend a flagpole during a protest???

I was 'tasked' with defending the Constitution- and the BoR is part of that. NEVER 'tasked' with defending a flag.... where did you do that- ahhh man of action???

Holy 18th century... capture the flag???? :doh

You seem intent on seeing the world from a rather stilted POV... I see the protests as anything from nice and orderly to 'rabid' that a flag is or isn't burned was never the main thrust of any protest I have seen... not even the staged ones in other nations...

I'm being to think Navy Pride didn't pass, just changed his screen name... eace

 

[Thrilla]

What a load of crap. We are a nation of laws first and foremost. To believe non-direct provocation is grounds for battery is moronic and counter the Rule of Law...the very principal which makes this nation great.

To be uncontrolled of one's emotions is the very definition of undisciplined...and is as juvenile a reaction as an "adult" can have.

well, that' a valid opinion... so to save people from undisciplined and juvenile reactions, and to save yourself from catching a beating... .don't burn the flag.

boom.. everybody is happy.