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Flags...not just a piece of colored cloth

RetiredNSmilin

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Recently there has been some major misunderstandings about the symbolism of our countriesflag. Most just say it is a piece ofcloth and does not matter at all, and because of that, it is just fine to burnit in anger and profane it in other ways. This attitude is 100% wrong , in my opinion, and if you care to readalong, I would like to explain why I feel it is.
No…It is notjust a piece of colored cloth.

In 1979 theLGBT community adopted a flag for rainbow colors to represent their communityand their struggles for equal treatment under the law. Its 6 colors are normally flown with red ontop and they represent the following…
RED forlife, ORANGE for healing, YELLOW for sunlight, GREEN for nature, BLUE forharmony, and VIOLET for their spirit.
The ralliedaround this flag and it served as a uniting image for their cause and struggle. This uniting is what brought about the recentSupreme Court decision approving gay unions nationwide.Their flag gave them unity and strength toachieve this.
NO…It is notjust a piece of colored cloth

In SouthAfrica in 1990, Nelson Mandela was released from prison and initiated acompletely UNBLOODY regime and system change in his country. That in itself is a miracle in the bloodstained African continent.The system ofApartheid was completely abolished, and now, for the first time in its history,a black South African citizen was not held back by a wall of racial separation.
In 1994 anew flag was selected for this new system of government. Incorporating the color BLACK into their newflag just like the skin color BLACK was incorporated into their new society.
NO...it isnot just a piece of colored cloth.

A littlenorth of there lies the country of Mozambique. In 1983 they adopted a flag that symbolized their struggle for independence.One of the symbols is an open book indicatingthe importance of education.Anothersymbol is a digging hoe indicating their agriculture.There is a yellow star there symbolizing theirMarxist ideology and internationalism, and another very unique symbol amongnations is this last symbol.It is oneof an AK-47 with fixed bayonet to symbolize their defense and vigilance.To them it is a very important symbol tokeep.
In 2005there was a weak attempt to remove the AK from their flag that wentnowhere. It means that much to them.
NO…it is notjust a piece of colored cloth.

To me, oneof the most inspiring photographs I ever saw was of a small beat up buildingwith a sign over it that read, “ U S Post Office, Khe Sahn “ and tied up highup in a leafless stick of a tree is a small US flag flying over it. The siege of Khe Sahn was never broken by theNVA, and that little US flag was there as a symbol of our defiance.
NO…it is nota piece of colored cloth.

Now, thinkof the mindset of anyone that would want to profane any of these symbols youjust read about. Their desire to destroythese symbols tells me they hate what they stand for and not only want todestroy the symbol, but the ideas and people behind them as well.
Yes, it islegal to profane the symbol of our nation. I am not talking about legalities.I am talking about the MOTIVATIONS and desires of those that wish it so.

THAT my dearfriends is why I get upset when I see the symbol of our freedom loving countryprofaned by those that hate that symbol and want to destroy it. You can bet your last dollar they do not wantto stop at just burning the flag.
It is mypersonal opinion the act of profaning any flag is showing utter distain and hatredof what it symbolizes. Just ask them asthey are doing it and they will tell you so.
 

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Recently there has been some major misunderstandings about the symbolism of our countriesflag. Most just say it is a piece ofcloth and does not matter at all, and because of that, it is just fine to burnit in anger and profane it in other ways. This attitude is 100% wrong , in my opinion, and if you care to readalong, I would like to explain why I feel it is.
No…It is notjust a piece of colored cloth.

In 1979 theLGBT community adopted a flag for rainbow colors to represent their communityand their struggles for equal treatment under the law. Its 6 colors are normally flown with red ontop and they represent the following…
RED forlife, ORANGE for healing, YELLOW for sunlight, GREEN for nature, BLUE forharmony, and VIOLET for their spirit.
The ralliedaround this flag and it served as a uniting image for their cause and struggle. This uniting is what brought about the recentSupreme Court decision approving gay unions nationwide. Their flag gave them unity and strength toachieve this.
NO…It is notjust a piece of colored cloth

In SouthAfrica in 1990, Nelson Mandela was released from prison and initiated acompletely UNBLOODY regime and system change in his country. That in itself is a miracle in the bloodstained African continent.The system ofApartheid was completely abolished, and now, for the first time in its history,a black South African citizen was not held back by a wall of racial separation.
In 1994 anew flag was selected for this new system of government. Incorporating the color BLACK into their newflag just like the skin color BLACK was incorporated into their new society. NO...it isnot just a piece of colored cloth.

A littlenorth of there lies the country of Mozambique. In 1983 they adopted a flag that symbolized their struggle for independence.One of the symbols is an open book indicatingthe importance of education.Anothersymbol is a digging hoe indicating their agriculture.There is a yellow star there symbolizing theirMarxist ideology and internationalism, and another very unique symbol amongnations is this last symbol.It is oneof an AK-47 with fixed bayonet to symbolize their defense and vigilance.To them it is a very important symbol tokeep.
In 2005there was a weak attempt to remove the AK from their flag that wentnowhere. It means that much to them.
NO…it is notjust a piece of colored cloth.

To me, oneof the most inspiring photographs I ever saw was of a small beat up buildingwith a sign over it that read, “ U S Post Office, Khe Sahn “ and tied up highup in a leafless stick of a tree is a small US flag flying over it. The siege of Khe Sahn was never broken by theNVA, and that little US flag was there as a symbol of our defiance.
NO…it is nota piece of colored cloth.

Now, thinkof the mindset of anyone that would want to profane any of these symbols youjust read about. Their desire to destroythese symbols tells me they hate what they stand for and not only want todestroy the symbol, but the ideas and people behind them as well.
Yes, it islegal to profane the symbol of our nation. I am not talking about legalities.I am talking about the MOTIVATIONS and desires of those that wish it so.

THAT my dearfriends is why I get upset when I see the symbol of our freedom loving countryprofaned by those that hate that symbol and want to destroy it. You can bet your last dollar they do not wantto stop at just burning the flag.
It is mypersonal opinion the act of profaning any flag is showing utter distain and hatredof what it symbolizes. Just ask them asthey are doing it and they will tell you so.

I feel you, my friend. To me, the flag is as much as a "piece of cloth" as the Constitution is just a piece of paper.
 
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Thrilla

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To me, oneof the most inspiring photographs I ever saw was of a small beat up buildingwith a sign over it that read, “ U S Post Office, Khe Sahn “ and tied up highup in a leafless stick of a tree is a small US flag flying over it. The siege of Khe Sahn was never broken by theNVA, and that little US flag was there as a symbol of our defiance.
NO…it is nota piece of colored cloth.

my big brother died at Khe Sahn, hill 881N... his death prompted me to join the fight a year later, and lead to a very long career.

so thank you for that...
 

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Thanks for the heads up on this thread Retired and using South Africa as an example.

That flag means alot to me, it hangs along with the Union Jack in my living room.

But at the end of the day, I do believe it is just a flag, it is just a piece of cloth, the flag doesn't make laws, or tackles corruption, or fights wars (although it can certainly inspire).

To me, while that flag symbolizes the awful past we overcame, it still represents the country and the corrupt president/government still in power, a government that is so paralyzed by that corruption to the extent they cannot do the right thing and get rid of the President.

That's in there too, now I wouldn't go as far as to burn it... However, the promise of the New South Africa is beginning to fall apart, and all that was fought and died for means nothing if the ANC razes the country to the ground, so I certainly wouldn't blame anyone if they burned it out of protest of what the country has become.

The same way I see America, I think to me, in some ways America has become extremely exploitative, nasty, misguided, even the smallest example is some states privatizing probation, people going to prison and paying thousands in fees for a parking ticket, destroying families, Healthcare being kept from the poor even though UHC is a better system because apparently that's freedom, destroying families, Millions of drug users locked up in a totally misguided attempt at prohibition, destroying families.

Just a couple of examples of why I think I would be upset if it were my country but the real point of those examples is not for me to mount my pulpit, but to point out that America isn't all roses and sunshine to everyone, not everyone sees it as you do, did those fellas on Omaha really die all those years ago so that the country could become a corporate oligarchy...

Many policies at every level of government have really left alot of people destitute, families and lives destroyed when they really didn't need to be, America, has done some bad abroad as well, it's all about what we choose to focus on.

I still think America is good and that it can overcome it's many difficulties, the only frustrating part is looking in, the issues are so obvious and until they are solved, alot of people will suffer and so if not everyone had the rosy walk through life like many Americans, or they're just plain asshole anarchist pissants who burn it cause they think its cool, who's to say otherwise, if a country isn't perfect, if a country has done wrong and a flag represents all of those aspects, should its symbol truly reserve legal protection from desecration.

For the South African flag, the British flag and the Canadian flag, I say no, it does not deserve legal protection.

But for the American flag, that's for you guys to decide, I can only give my 50 cents.
 

Abbazorkzog

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I respect all flags. But I owe my allegiance to planet Earth and all of Humanity.
 

RetiredNSmilin

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my big brother died at Khe Sahn, hill 881N... his death prompted me to join the fight a year later, and lead to a very long career.

so thank you for that...

There are some things only a photograph can say accurately and realistically.

You can see that photo if you look at the video of Billy Joel's song, Goodbye, Saigon.

The rubble is there, the leaves are all blown off of that little stick of a tree, but our flag and that little tree are still standing.

NO...it is not a piece of colored cloth.

My condolences, Marine.
 

X Factor

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It's kind of sad the inevitible direction this thread will take. Nice OP though.
 
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Skeptic Bob

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If it were just a piece of cloth then burning it wouldn't carry much of a message. It is a symbol. And burning it is symbolic. Symbols have always been important to humans. Though burning anything, flags, books, effigies, always struck me as a lowbrow form of protest.
 

Carjosse

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In SouthAfrica in 1990, Nelson Mandela was released from prison and initiated acompletely UNBLOODY regime and system change in his country. That in itself is a miracle in the bloodstained African continent.The system ofApartheid was completely abolished, and now, for the first time in its history,a black South African citizen was not held back by a wall of racial separation.
In 1994 anew flag was selected for this new system of government. Incorporating the color BLACK into their newflag just like the skin color BLACK was incorporated into their new society.
NO...it isnot just a piece of colored cloth.

Actually the flag's colours are taken form the ANC flag which used the colours of the Pan-African movement. It may have represented a new South Africa but the new South Africa have forgotten what the other colours of the flag that represent Transvaal and the old union flag. Black South Africans are now destroying the heritage of White South Africans, and forgetting their contribution to South African culture.
 

beefheart

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my big brother died at Khe Sahn, hill 881N... his death prompted me to join the fight a year later, and lead to a very long career.

so thank you for that...

I visited Khe Sahn a few years back. Eerily peaceful and quiet place, sorry for your loss.
 

DA60

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Flags can mean to each other whatever they want them to mean.

To me? They are a piece of cloth...no more, no less.
 

X Factor

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How would folks feel about people burning the LGBT rainbow flag, I wonder.
 

RetiredNSmilin

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Thanks for the heads up on this thread Retired and using South Africa as an example.

That flag means alot to me, it hangs along with the Union Jack in my living room.

But at the end of the day, I do believe it is just a flag, it is just a piece of cloth, the flag doesn't make laws, or tackles corruption, or fights wars (although it can certainly inspire).

To me, while that flag symbolizes the awful past we overcame, it still represents the country and the corrupt president/government still in power, a government that is so paralyzed by that corruption to the extent they cannot do the right thing and get rid of the President.

That's in there too, now I wouldn't go as far as to burn it... However, the promise of the New South Africa is beginning to fall apart, and all that was fought and died for means nothing if the ANC razes the country to the ground, so I certainly wouldn't blame anyone if they burned it out of protest of what the country has become.

The same way I see America, I think to me, in some ways America has become extremely exploitative, nasty, misguided, even the smallest example is some states privatizing probation, people going to prison and paying thousands in fees for a parking ticket, destroying families, Healthcare being kept from the poor even though UHC is a better system because apparently that's freedom, destroying families, Millions of drug users locked up in a totally misguided attempt at prohibition, destroying families.

Just a couple of examples of why I think I would be upset if it were my country but the real point of those examples is not for me to mount my pulpit, but to point out that America isn't all roses and sunshine to everyone, not everyone sees it as you do, did those fellas on Omaha really die all those years ago so that the country could become a corporate oligarchy...

Many policies at every level of government have really left alot of people destitute, families and lives destroyed when they really didn't need to be, America, has done some bad abroad as well, it's all about what we choose to focus on.

I still think America is good and that it can overcome it's many difficulties, the only frustrating part is looking in, the issues are so obvious and until they are solved, alot of people will suffer and so if not everyone had the rosy walk through life like many Americans, or they're just plain asshole anarchist pissants who burn it cause they think its cool, who's to say otherwise, if a country isn't perfect, if a country has done wrong and a flag represents all of those aspects, should its symbol truly reserve legal protection from desecration.

For the South African flag, the British flag and the Canadian flag, I say no, it does not deserve legal protection.

But for the American flag, that's for you guys to decide, I can only give my 50 cents.

Thank you for your look and insights.

My vision is 20/20 when it comes to looking at American. Because it is 20/20 I can also see the good we do. Some never can and prefer to only dwell on the bad. That makes them very uncheerful souls. There is bad anywhere you choose to look, and it can be sought out without trying too hard.

There is also a whole lot of good that is also readily open to see.

When a disaster hits somewhere in the world, what country is the VERY FIRST to respond? The US.

Whose people are quite generous with their own money to others in need? Americans. Why? Because we have it to give. Why? because we worked hard to make it so.

There are few countries in the world where a poor beggar can hit our shores and with the right amount of puck, luck, and initiative, change his station in life to be much more comfortable and secure than he has ever been. This happens all the time here.

Here you can also order 500 rounds of military ammunition on-line and have it delivered to your front door. Name me one dictatorship or communist place where that is allowed?

Here in Texas, I am living on a little over one acre of land in a three bedroom house and am paying just $689 a month for it, and NO PROPERTY TAXES.

I choose to not let the bad overshadow the good. It is all in the attitude.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Flags can mean to each other whatever they want them to mean.

To me? They are a piece of cloth...no more, no less.

Materialism is what is tearing this world apart. Flag worship is part of that materialism.
 

RetiredNSmilin

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I respect all flags. But I owe my allegiance to planet Earth and all of Humanity.

This is certainly a very small green and blue ball in space isn't it.

I do hope one day we cal all live together in peace on it.

but unfortunately, we as humans love killing and power too much to stop the fighting.

That is why you have to pick your ground and defend it.
 

RetiredNSmilin

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If it were just a piece of cloth then burning it wouldn't carry much of a message. It is a symbol. And burning it is symbolic. Symbols have always been important to humans. Though burning anything, flags, books, effigies, always struck me as a lowbrow form of protest.

BrewerBob...I have a pretty thick reference book here in my mancave titled, " Signs and Symbols Sourcebook", and you are not kidding. There have been literally thousands of signs, symbols, fetishes, amulets, ect used all over the world.

I feel as you that profaning any of them as a form of protest is pretty "lowbrow". Good choice of words.
 

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The reason why it is legal protest to burn an American flag is simple: If it was illegal, they'd be burning all over the place. Tell people that they cannot do something, then wait.
 

RetiredNSmilin

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Actually the flag's colours are taken form the ANC flag which used the colours of the Pan-African movement. It may have represented a new South Africa but the new South Africa have forgotten what the other colours of the flag that represent Transvaal and the old union flag. Black South Africans are now destroying the heritage of White South Africans, and forgetting their contribution to South African culture.

You sound much more educated on the subject than my wiki search, so I bow to your knowledge of the subject.

Funny how some prefer to destroy old history rather than make new history.
 

RetiredNSmilin

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Flags can mean to each other whatever they want them to mean.

To me? They are a piece of cloth...no more, no less.

I am sorry to hear that. This tells me you hold few ideologies and concepts dear.

Hence your UNDISCLOSED leanings.
 

RetiredNSmilin

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How would folks feel about people burning the LGBT rainbow flag, I wonder.

I cannot wrap my head around having so much hate for something that such an action would even be conceivable.
 

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How would folks feel about people burning the LGBT rainbow flag, I wonder.

I am not LGBT...but I would not much care.

If there is a Straight Man flag...people could urinate on it, defecate on it, spit on it and then burn it and I still would not much care.

Same goes for any flag in existence that I can think of.

I might be curious why people are burning them.

But offended about the flag itself being burned...couldn't give a ****.


Now if others want to freak out about it...go ahead - just keep it peaceful. And don't try and ram that 'ideal' down my throat please (like some sort of religion).
 

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I am not LGBT...but I would not much care.

If there is a Straight Man flag...people could urinate on it, defecate on it, spit on it and then burn it and I still would not much care.

Same goes for any flag in existence that I can think of.

I might be curious why people are burning them.

But offended about the flag itself being burned...couldn't give a ****.

I believe you (for real). I do think many would consider it hate speech though (and understandably so).
 
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