Finland Races Toward Likely NATO Membership as Putin's Warnings Backfire

[lwf]

Uh.....did you read the article? Putin didn’t say anything about Finland. A Russian spokeswoman literally just said that Russia would have to respond in some way if they joined NATO, and that that decision would have repercussions, which the Finnish prime minister herself pointed out. That’s a far cry from a threat of invasion.

Sergei Belyayev, head of the Russian foreign ministry's European department threatened "military consequences" if Finland joined NATO.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ial-warns-finland-sweden-against-joining-nato

 

[Tigerace117]

Sergei Belyayev, head of the Russian foreign ministry's European department threatened "military consequences" if Finland joined NATO.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ial-warns-finland-sweden-against-joining-nato

Funny how you left out the “political” part of his quote, and nowhere was there an actual threat by Putin of invasion.

 

[lwf]

Funny how you left out the “political” part of his quote, and nowhere was there an actual threat by Putin of invasion.

How would adding "political consequences" alter the threat of "military consequences?" Are you saying the head of the Russian Foreign ministry's European department is not an authority on Putin's and Russia's intentions? What do you think the threat of "military consequences" is meant to convey to the Finnish in light of the current situation in Ukraine?

 

[Tigerace117]

How would adding "political consequences" alter the threat of "military consequences?" Are you saying the head of the Russian Foreign ministry's European department is not an authority on Putin's and Russia's intentions? What do you think the threat of "military consequences" is meant to convey to the Finnish in light of the current situation in Ukraine?

Because it shows that, rather than an imminent threat of actual invasion as you claim, it’s a pretty standard diplo-talk version of “we are keeping our options open”. And since, as I pointed out, Russia has long been more than happy with Finnish neutrality, that most likely means a diplomatic pressure campaign, as in the Night Frost Crisis.

And a quote from a functionary is different than a quote from a dictator himself.

 

[lwf]

Because it shows that, rather than an imminent threat of actual invasion as you claim, it’s a pretty standard diplo-talk version of “we are keeping our options open”. And since, as I pointed out, Russia has long been more than happy with Finnish neutrality, that most likely means a diplomatic pressure campaign, as in the Night Frost Crisis.

And a quote from a functionary is different than a quote from a dictator himself.

Not in Russia. In Russia, when a quote from a functionary doesn't reflect the intentions of Vladimir Putin, that functionary is removed and replaced.

 

[Tigerace117]

Not in Russia. In Russia, when a quote from a functionary doesn't reflect the intentions of Vladimir Putin, that functionary is removed and replaced.

And as I pointed out already, his comments were not, in fact, the invasion threat you claimed.

 

[lwf]

And as I pointed out already, his comments were not, in fact, the invasion threat you claimed.

The threat of military consequences amid an active unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation IS an invasion threat. No honest person would interpret it otherwise.

 

[StillBallin75]

Tell that to the poor Danes or Slovaks who got killed in Afghanistan for.....something? That’s the problem with joining one superpower’s camp.....it makes it that much harder to tell that superpower “no”.

Which is why, unless there’s an actual, credible threat— and for Finland there isn’t one— neutrality is the better option.

There's absolutely zero legal mechanism that would compel the Finns to fight in wars of American adventurism if they really desired not to.

See: Turkey when they told us to **** off in March of 2003.

 

[Tigerace117]

The threat of military consequences amid an active unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation IS an invasion threat. No honest person would interpret it otherwise.

Only if one is under the impression that Russia is the Borg and seeks to conquer every nation it can

 

[lwf]

Only if one is under the impression that Russia is the Borg and seeks to conquer every nation it can

Right. Who could come to that conclusion in 2022? Obviously, an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country is in no way an indication that there could ever be any more unprovoked invasions of other sovereign countries by the same aggressor.

 

[Tigerace117]

Right. Who could come to that conclusion in 2022? Obviously, an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country is in no way an indication that there could ever be any more unprovoked invasions of other sovereign countries by the same aggressor.

Only someone who doesn’t have the slightest clue about Finland’s ethic breakdown, Russian foreign policy, or history. Duh

 

[Tigerace117]

There's absolutely zero legal mechanism that would compel the Finns to fight in wars of American adventurism if they really desired not to.

See: Turkey when they told us to **** off in March of 2003.

Turkey’s also got the advantage of a strategic location which means they can more or less do whatever the **** they want without us complaining too much.

 

[lwf]

Only someone who doesn’t have the slightest clue about Finland’s ethic breakdown, Russian foreign policy, or history. Duh

Sure. And why keep a sex offender away from little girls if their only victims have been little boys?

 

[Tigerace117]

Sure. And why keep a sex offender away from little girls if their only victims have been little boys?

Oh look, ANOTHER hysterical false equivalence(and BTW, if we are equating countries which launched wars of aggression to sex offenders America doesn’t come out looking real good )

 

[lwf]

Oh look, ANOTHER hysterical false equivalence(and BTW, if we are equating countries which launched wars of aggression to sex offenders America doesn’t come out looking real good )

The same logic applies. Just because Russia hasn't historically been interested in Finland doesn't mean that Finland can assume it is therefore safe from Russian invasion. Since Russia has proven that it is both able and willing to invade one of its neighbors and seize territory, Finland would be foolish to assume that it is safe from Russian invasion based solely on Russia's past behavior. Ukraine and the world was taken by surprise by the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Therefore, it is foolish to predict that Russia wouldn't invade any of its other neighbors with any sort of confidence. NATO membership is the only wise choice here.

 

[Tigerace117]

The same logic applies. Just because Russia hasn't historically been interested in Finland doesn't mean that Finland can assume it is therefore safe from Russian invasion. Since Russia has proven that it is both able and willing to invade one of its neighbors and seize territory, Finland would be foolish to assume that it is safe from Russian invasion based solely on Russia's past behavior. Ukraine and the world was taken by surprise by the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Therefore, it is foolish to predict that Russia wouldn't invade any of its other neighbors with any sort of confidence. NATO membership is the only wise choice here.

By that “logic”, just because America hasn’t been historically interested in annexing all of Mexico doesn’t mean it won’t suddenly wake up one day and decide it wants to, so Mexico should join the SCO and ask the Chinese to station large numbers of troops there

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Only if one is under the impression that Russia is the Borg and seeks to conquer every nation it can

Jesus christ. Once again you've spent an entire thread downplaying Russia's actions, criticizing Finland for considering joining NATO, and pretended to know how Russia thinks and will act in the future as if you work in the Kremlin. Just stop carrying water for Putin and go back to pretending to be an American.

 

[Tigerace117]

Jesus christ. Once again you've spent an entire thread downplaying Russia's actions, criticizing Finland for considering joining NATO, and pretended to know how Russia thinks and will act in the future as if you work in the Kremlin. Just stop carrying water for Putin and go back to pretending to be an American.

Oh look, another petulant tantrum because I don’t buy the hysterical fearmongering. What a surprise....not.

 

[maxparrish]

Because it shows that, rather than an imminent threat of actual invasion as you claim, it’s a pretty standard diplo-talk version of “we are keeping our options open”. And since, as I pointed out, Russia has long been more than happy with Finnish neutrality, that most likely means a diplomatic pressure campaign, as in the Night Frost Crisis.

And a quote from a functionary is different than a quote from a dictator himself.

LOL... free lancing in Putin's Russia? Oh sure...

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Oh look, another petulant tantrum because I don’t buy the hysterical fearmongering. What a surprise....not.

Pointing out that Ukraine was invaded by Russia is hysterical fear mongering? To you its totally no big deal right? Who cares?

The Kremlin really needs to pay their internet propagandists better. You're doing a terrible job. Nobody believes your claims that Russia is a nice country and a threat to nobody.

 

[Tigerace117]

LOL... free lancing in Putin's Russia? Oh sure...

Working towards the fuhrer, to borrow a concept from Germany, is nothing new.

 

[Tigerace117]

Pointing out that Ukraine was invaded by Russia is hysterical fear mongering? To you its totally no big deal right? Who cares?

The Kremlin really needs to pay their internet propagandists better. You're doing a terrible job. Nobody believes your claims that Russia is a nice country and a threat to nobody.

The idea that Russia’s about to invade Finland for shits and giggles is the definition of fearmongering. The Russians got what they wanted from Finland decades ago.

But I get that fearmongering is something that sells wonderfully in the US.

 

[Fledermaus]

The idea that Russia’s about to invade Finland for shits and giggles is the definition of fearmongering. The Russians got what they wanted from Finland decades ago.

But I get that fearmongering is something that sells wonderfully in the US.

This message is approved by the Putin Protection Posse.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

The idea that Russia’s about to invade Finland for shits and giggles is the definition of fearmongering. The Russians got what they wanted from Finland decades ago.

But I get that fearmongering is something that sells wonderfully in the US.

Nobody said they were about to invade Finland, just that their joining of NATO is a great idea that protects their own interests. So, precisely why it makes you so mad.

 

[Tigerace117]

Roughly 1 percent of Finland’s populace is ethnic Russian. It’s situation isn’t even remotely comparable to Ukraine, especially since neutralization of Finland in the first place was a Russian political objective and one bitterly resented by the West.

Finlandization - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org