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Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Defending this killer is not defending the honorable right and DUTY of self defense.
Based on the evidence I do not see any criminality yet.
Maybe you could review the actual facts of the case and point out exactly where you believe this bad situation devolved into a criminal act.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Based on the evidence I do not see any criminality yet.
Maybe you could review the actual facts of the case and point out exactly where you believe this bad situation devolved into a criminal act.

TD is an attorney and a firm believer in gun rights.

the fact that even he sees Zimmerman as the aggressor, says a lot.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Based on the evidence I do not see any criminality yet.
Maybe you could review the actual facts of the case and point out exactly where you believe this bad situation devolved into a criminal act.

when the boy was shot

next
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TD is an attorney and a firm believer in gun rights.

the fact that even he sees Zimmerman as the aggressor, says a lot.


true enough-this sort of incident doesn't help the rights of armed citizens

empty your PM box thunder-its full!
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

eye witness accounts indicate that Zimmerman alone was on the ground. He was bleeding in the back of the head, had grass stains on the back of his shirt, and was wet on his back.

he claimed he was jumped from behind, which is one way to explain the mismatch. another is he is fat, the teen was in good shape.

If he was jumped from behind, shouldn't the grass and wetness be in the FRONT?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

why was the kid running away screaming for help?

why did Zimmermann feel the need to shoot someone running away?

because he was a "****ing coon"?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

How is "black" a description of a person that is helpful to police?
You honestly don't see how knowing the race of a specific person they are or will be looking for, is helpful to the police?



How is "black" a description of a person that is helpful to police? Race was the only question the 911 operator asked, Excon. Had he/she gone on and asked, "What is he wearing?" you'd have heard nothing from me. But "black" being helpful? Only to a profiler, imo.

He's black. He's got on bluejeans and a black hoodie. I think he's wearing white athletic shoes.

THAT'S a description. The only thing the 911 operator cared about was the color of his skin.
No. The operator asked if he was Black White or Hispanic and then asked if he saw what he was wearing.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You honestly don't see how knowing the race of a specific person they are or will be looking for, is helpful to the police?

No. The operator asked if he was Black White or Hispanic and then asked if he saw what he was wearing.

If he did indeed ask what he was wearing, then I stand corrected. I did not hear that on the recording I listened to, however.

Of course race is helpful...but not as the only qualifier.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

THE LESSON LEARNED...

Often,
I've told people "if you go looking for trouble you just might find it."

Zimmerman went looking for trouble - the dispatcher telling him not to. Miminally, even if not charged or convicted, he was getting the s...t beat out of him, both families have had to move out of their homes for death-threats, he is an exorbitantly hated person, and this will negatively follow him all his life. It likely never crossed his mind that the football player weight lifting 17 year old might turn him on as decide to kick his ass - and unless he was willing to shoot him that kid would be beat him into the ground - and maybe take his own gun and kill him with his own gun. In a sense, Zimmerman never likely imagined it could become "kill or be killed."

It appears Martin turned and wanted trouble - seeing opportunity to strike back at the older Latino guy who had harassed him - despite his girlfriend telling him to leave the situation. He may have accurately decided he could kick Zimmerman's ass, if not worse. But it likely never crossed his mind that the wacky Latino guy had a gun, for which maybe he decided to take the conflict into a serious physical fight. He's now dead.

People don't think. They don't think out potentials. I was in hundreds of fights, maybe more, and saw far more. I've seen a lot of people hurt, hurt badly, permanently and I've seen them die. FEW people are actually prepared to deal with sudden physical confrontation and often misread the potential dangers or really correctly understand how people will actually reacte.

BOTH THOSE YOUNG MEN (and I call Martin a "young man," not a "child") way, way over-rated themselves, both were fully unprepared or unskilled for the potentials, and both went looking for trouble at different moments - and both found it.

I do not equate the two, certainly not same levels of loses, but both acted foolishly and stupidly. And that is what makes for many tragedies.

- - - -

Neighborhood watch and others should NEVER confront anyone UNLESS to the rescue of someone under attack - maybe. Not because neighborhood watch are noisy busybodies. People watching out for the neighborhood is a good thing. Not because they-re doing some is illegal - generally going over to someone seemingly suspicious with "what are you doing here?" isn't illegal or even a big deal. It is because they are NOT prepared for what may happen when they do.

The same is true overall for anyone. If some crazy person is harassing you, while you maybe CAN stand your ground, you probably are not mentally prepared if not otherwise capable, might what a crazy person might do then - or even later as a fixation.

There is a wrong headed notion that having a gun protects you as much as it might. A wrong view that showing it or pointing it stops the other person. In my private life I never carried a weapon. It was too great a liability. I have had people pull weapons on me. I "disabled" the person ("broke him") taking it away. In ANY situation the other person demonstrated a weapon, I could have killed him with his own weapon.

Verbal conflicts can quickly, instantly, become violent - and very, very violent. Its not like old westerns in which minutes after the fight is over, their having joking and having a drink. He, they may well be in the hospital, seriously or even permanently damaged.

Finally, trying to circumstantially calculate what both did micro-moment to moment and why each did so is nonsense. They both were completely unprepared for what unfolded on what I suspect each their own stupid actions and there was little rationality in either of them in those decisive few seconds.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TD is an attorney and a firm believer in gun rights.

the fact that even he sees Zimmerman as the aggressor, says a lot.
lol To you maybe.
To me it says he is not aware of all the evidence.

I am aware of his profession.
I removed the word Counselor from my reply to him because it seemed somewhat confrontational in it's use.
And I did so because his opinions on other subjects are pretty much aligned with my own.



when the boy was shot

next
That act is not, in and of itself, criminal.

But it is as I thought, you are not aware of all the evidence.



true enough-this sort of incident doesn't help the rights of armed citizens
That is exactly right.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

why was the kid running away screaming for help?

why did Zimmermann feel the need to shoot someone running away?

because he was a "****ing coon"?

I think you know you're just making that up.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

when the boy was shot

next



This isn't the TD Thunder said is an attorney, is it?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If he was jumped from behind, shouldn't the grass and wetness be in the FRONT?
The statement made was that he was attacked from behind, not jumped from behind.

Read the girlfriends statement again.
Martin's confronting him with a question and his replying and then a scuffle ensuing could have came from behind and happened quickly enough to be interpreted and relayed as an attack from behind.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

It should be innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until video evidence proves otherwise.
I don't believe anyone is doubting he is guilty of killing Travon.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

why was the kid running away screaming for help?

why did Zimmermann feel the need to shoot someone running away?

because he was a "****ing coon"?
The kid was not running away screaming for help.
Has there been a witness who has identified who was screaming for help?
It has been reported that Zimmerman was screaming, or yelling for help though, and that he didn't know why no one responded.

Tell me if you will; How does one get shot in the chest running away?
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I don't think Zimmerman should be able to use Stand Your Ground defense, since it appears that he was not "standing his ground" he was running after this kid. Zimmerman was the aggressor, so if anything the kid would have been in the right by fighting back.



Or you could just declare it a fact that Zimmerman tied up Martin and shot him 15 times with an AR15 and make your argument from there.

The ONLY eye witness said Zimmerman, only Zimmerman, was on the ground and the shot seconds later.

But it is more fun to just make up totally false facts to declare MSNBC's political-goal analysis are correct. They also absolutely leave out even mention of the 1 eye witness, a 13 year old African-American boy out with his dog. Doesn't know who started what or who was screaming for help, but he is certain it that Zimmerman was on the ground immediately before the shot fired - and that when Zimmerman was on the ground and Martin was not, it was a "fight."

Yes, I can understand why the lynch mob doesn't like the only eye witnesses statement, so they pretend it doesn't exist and declare the true fact witness is Lawrence O'Donnell in his overall editorial against gun-rights.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If he did indeed ask what he was wearing, then I stand corrected. I did not hear that on the recording I listened to, however.

Of course race is helpful...but not as the only qualifier.

Starting at approx. 0:25.

 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The kid was not running away screaming for help.
Has there been a witness who has identified who was screaming for help?
It has been reported that Zimmerman was screaming, or yelling for help though, and that he didn't know why no one responded.

Tell me if you will; How does one get shot in the chest running away?



Has it been released that Martin was shot in the chest, or are you speculating? It is known Martin wasn't running away, or at least the only independent eye witness says so.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

why was the kid running away screaming for help?

why did Zimmermann feel the need to shoot someone running away?

because he was a "****ing coon"?

Wait wait!

I thought it was point blank in the chest.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The kid was not running away screaming for help.
Has there been a witness who has identified who was screaming for help?
It has been reported that Zimmerman was screaming, or yelling for help though, and that he didn't know why no one responded.

Tell me if you will; How does one get shot in the chest running away?

I think they were fighting after Zimmerman chased him down then tackled the kid; the kid fought back (rightly so) and then as Zimmerman starts to lose that fight, he pulls his handgun and shots the kid in the chest. I am interested to hear the details after April 10th.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Zimmerman had a previous charge in 2005 of battery of a police officer while interfering with the arrest of a friend. He later entered a plea that removed the charge from his record.[25] Zimmerman also had previously been accused of domestic violence by an ex-girlfriend, who had filed for a restraining order against him.[26]

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

wow, a real stand-up guy. A real hero.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

are you following him

Yes

we don't need you to do that
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Starting at approx. 0:25.



Zimmerman only said Martin was "a guy." At 0.30 - the police ask his race. Martin says I he thinks he's black. Says Martin is coming towards him, hand in his waist band, has something in his hand, then Martin running away...

Zimmerman didn't even identify Martin by race until asked, and then at first he was not certain. Doesn't sound like stalking African-Americans to me.

BTW, did it really end that abuptive - or has the tailend been cut off??? I don't hear a bye or a hangup.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

this guy beat a police officer.

he beat his girlfriend.

he had a restraining order against him.

he wasnt allowed to become a cop.

he was a one-man community watch team.

...I mean seriously?????????????
 
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