Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[MaggieD]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Pretty sure 911operators in San Diego are technically cops, if you kill one im certain youll get the law enforcement enhancement,but regardless, nobody but a cop has the right to stop and question someone on the street. You are perfectly within your rights to tell another civilian who attempts to to piss off. And if they.put their hands on you or attempt to keep you from leaving you have every right to defend yourself.

There's no such thing as "technically a cop." In the Chicago area, at least, 911 operators are 911 operators. Not cops.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

It would appear not, under Florida law.

Almost no dispatchers are police officers, but rather telephone receptionists. The police generally don't WANT dispatchers to be police, because that could invoke Miranda warning requirements upon dispatchers. That could result in telephone statements in some circumstances not being admissible, and often those statements matter most of all.

In addition, if a dispatcher gave bad instructions, it could be an "Affirmative defense" if a person followed that advice and it was, in overallness, an illegal act. It also could create liabilities for the department.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

It should be innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until video evidence proves otherwise.

Like you've convicted Martin of assaulting Zimmerman?

 

[Porchev]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

MSNBC is refusing to mention the only eye witness saying it was Zimmerman, only Zimmerman, on the ground? Chris Matthews then stated this incident proves that only police officers should be allowed to have a gun in public.

That sounds like Chris Matthews. From the sounds of it, not only did Zimmerman kill a kid for no reason, he is giving the anti-gun people more ammo (so to speak) to try to rally people to restrict gun ownership. I carried a concealed handgun just today while walking my dogs, but I have it for emergency self-defense...which is not like Zimmerman, he used his for offense after going out and looking for trouble. I hope Zimmerman goes to jail for a long time.

 

[ARealConservative]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If he waited a few minutes, the kid would have ran away

after the kid put Zimmerman on the ground, and Zimmerman remained alone on the ground bleeding, he also could of walked away. that would of been the best move that kid could of made, but he didn't.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Zimmerman wasn't a robber.

And Martin knew this how?

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

That sounds like Chris Matthews. From the sounds of it, not only did Zimmerman kill a kid for no reason, he is giving the anti-gun people more ammo (so to speak) to try to rally people to restrict gun ownership. I carried a concealed handgun just today while walking my dogs, but I have it for emergency self-defense...which is not like Zimmerman, he used his for offense after going out and looking for trouble. I hope Zimmerman goes to jail for a long time.

I don't think it should be used to restrict gun ownership. But I think it should be used to change this ridiculous Stand Your Ground defense.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

seriously, if a guy was following me in a car as I was walking home from the 7-11 after buying Skittles, in the middle of the night and then he got out of his car and approached me, I too would take out my gun and point it right at his heart and tell him to stay the **** away from me.

Unless there is some other factor, that alone would be felony assault with a deadly weapon.

MSNBC - who is driving this story - insists that in that situation YOU are criminal, but then you shouldn't have that gun in the first place and wants laws to insure you never do.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Wrong city on the exactly opposite side of the country.

So we know for certain this is not the case in the community in question?

Seems rather pivotal to your claim.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

This wasn't a gang banger. This was a good kid walking home with some Skittles and iced tea from the 711.

"Are you following him?"
"Yes."
"We don't need you to do that."

If no one has posted the complete 911 calls, here's a link: 911 calls paint picture of chaos after Florida teen is shot – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

"This guy looks like he's up to no good."

Really?

Guilty of black-while-walking?

This man may not be prosecuted. But I hope it results in this Stand Your Ground law being tweaked to where private citizens cannot precipitate situations that results in an unarmed man being killed.

Edit: I can tell you this: If I were slowly followed in a car while I was walking at night . . . and then a guy got out of the car and came towards me asking me questions, I'd have been scared to death. If I had a gun, I might pull it out and aim it at the guy. Then I could stand MY ground. Hell, I wouldn't even pull over in my car at night if an unmarked police car with a siren on the dashboard tried to pull me over. Neighborhood Watch = License to Harrass?? What a tragedy.

So when the dispatcher asked Zimmerman the race of the person, Zimmerman should have refused to answer.

All of you need to be VERY careful of your "I'd point a gun at..."

Pointing a gun at someone except when allowed by law is felony assault with a deadly weapon.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

But it was Martin who confronted and questioned Zimmerman first.

says who? the police who didn't even test Zimmerman for alcohol & drugs?

the police who supressed evidence?

Did you not read the girlfriend's statement?

standing in his way, is a physical threat.

You are assuming it happened that way.

The reported evidence is the following.
Martin's girlfriend statement that shows Martin confronted Zimmerman first by questioning him.
Zimmerman stated that he was attacked from behind on his way back to his truck.

So who was standing in who's way?

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

So we know for certain this is not the case in the community in question?

Seems rather pivotal to your claim.

It is not San Diego. The small city is in Florida.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Did you not read the girlfriend's statement?





You are assuming it happened that way.

The reported evidence is the following.
Martin's girlfriend statement that shows Martin confronted Zimmerman first by questioning him.
Zimmerman stated that he was attacked from behind on his way back to his truck.

So who was standing in who's way?

The blood on the back of Zimmerman's head would seem to support that claim. That there was a fight at all - if a fight and not Martin assaulting Zimmerman - what appears is known to be false is that Zimmerman was walking fast away.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Pointing a gun at someone except when allowed by law is felony assault with a deadly weapon.

Apparently not.

 

[Porchev]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I don't think it should be used to restrict gun ownership. But I think it should be used to change this ridiculous Stand Your Ground defense.

I don't think Zimmerman should be able to use Stand Your Ground defense, since it appears that he was not "standing his ground" he was running after this kid. Zimmerman was the aggressor, so if anything the kid would have been in the right by fighting back.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Apparently not.

Few things are apparent. However, again, the girlfriend recounting what Martin was saying matters greatly. According to her, that phone call continued until the violence (but not gunshot) occurred. Martin never mentioned a gun.

I will agree if a 17 year old male football player rushed you, hitting you in the gback of the head knocking you down, then kicked you in the head while trying to get that gun that fell out of your purse, you could point the gun at him and use deadly force to protect yourself.

But, again, the girlfriends' statement contradicts that Zimmerman had pointed a gun at Martin.

 

[ric27]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

after the kid put Zimmerman on the ground, and Zimmerman remained alone on the ground bleeding, he also could of walked away. that would of been the best move that kid could of made, but he didn't.

How does a 200 pound dude/packing heat gets dominated by an unarmed kid weighing in at 140 pounds?

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

How does a 200 pound dude/packing heat gets dominated by an unarmed kid weighing in at 140 pounds?

Way back on this thread and before I knew Martin had Zimmerman (only on the ground), I had predicted the obvious - Martin could have kicked the s...t out of Zimmerman and apparently was doing just that.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

This board would be hard pressed to find another poster who is as strong a supporter of citizens being able to defend themselves against criminal attack than your friendly turtle. Having shot a mugger, and then spent many years teaching people how to defend themselves I am a huge advocate of armed citizens. I also have testified in favor of making righteous would be victims who fought back immune from civil suits and criminal repercussions.

However, from WHAT I HAVE SEEN in this case, this Zimmerman was no righteous citizen and the slain boy's main crime was "WWB" in a neighborhood where some have that idiotic attitude that blacks could not be residents

Defending this killer is not defending the honorable right and DUTY of self defense.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Because that is the only identifying characteristic they asked about...nothing about his clothing. I find that nothing more than profiling.

This is a description of an actual person, profiling doesn't even enter the picture.

There's no such thing as "technically a cop." In the Chicago area, at least, 911 operators are 911 operators. Not cops.

Thank you for that.

Pretty sure 911operators in San Diego are technically cops, if you kill one im certain youll get the law enforcement enhancement,but regardless, nobody but a cop has the right to stop and question someone on the street. You are perfectly within your rights to tell another civilian who attempts to to piss off. And if they.put their hands on you or attempt to keep you from leaving you have every right to defend yourself.

What she said.

 

[Travelsonic]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Except it's not a red herring, because if they had taken the side of the Black shooter instead of the shooting victim, it means they're hypocrites.

Do you realize how stupid you sound?

First off, this is about this case, the investigation or lack thereof, the action or lack thereof by the police and other involved parties - any feelings regarding anything otuside this case mean nothing, as they - obviously - have nothing to do with this.

Second, you're calling people hypocrites because of hypothetical situations with arbitrarily defined boundaries [that didn't even happen] as if you knew the outcome, and as if it actually was an intelligent, articulated, valid argument.

God, I think half my brain cells died.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You are assuming it happened that way.

The reported evidence is the following.
Martin's girlfriend statement that shows Martin confronted Zimmerman first by questioning him.
Zimmerman stated that he was attacked from behind on his way back to his truck.

So who was standing in who's way?

The blood on the back of Zimmerman's head would seem to support that claim. That there was a fight at all - if a fight and not Martin assaulting Zimmerman - what appears is known to be false is that Zimmerman was walking fast away.

I am not sure I am following you here.
Which claim does it support and who made it and who said Zimmerman was walking away fast?
I emboldened above the evidence that I know of.

It appears as though no-one was standing in anybody's way.
And the girl's statement is consistent with Zimmerman's own.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

There's no such thing as "technically a cop." In the Chicago area, at least, 911 operators are 911 operators. Not cops.

I stand corrected. I thought they were in the same class as police dogs and meter maids.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

This is a description of an actual person, profiling doesn't even enter the picture.

How is "black" a description of a person that is helpful to police? Race was the only question the 911 operator asked, Excon. Had he/she gone on and asked, "What is he wearing?" you'd have heard nothing from me. But "black" being helpful? Only to a profiler, imo.

He's black. He's got on bluejeans and a black hoodie. I think he's wearing white athletic shoes.

THAT'S a description. The only thing the 911 operator cared about was the color of his skin.

 

[ARealConservative]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

How does a 200 pound dude/packing heat gets dominated by an unarmed kid weighing in at 140 pounds?

eye witness accounts indicate that Zimmerman alone was on the ground. He was bleeding in the back of the head, had grass stains on the back of his shirt, and was wet on his back.

he claimed he was jumped from behind, which is one way to explain the mismatch. another is he is fat, the teen was in good shape.