Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

So the short version of this story in review:

A 17 year-old is walking in a neighborhood in the early evening with candy, Iced Tea, and a cell phone. He is on his way back from the store to watch a basketball game on TV with his father. Before getting back to his father, he is stalked by the retarded wanna-be super hero Zimmerman. Zimmerman, over compensating for small genitalia, wants to pick a fight with this kid, but the kid defends himself and fights back. Zimmerman gets mad that anyone would stand up to him, so he shots the kid with a cheap Kel-Tec 9mm handgun then wrongly claims self-defense.

Is this about right?

Sounds made up. There's no video evidence to substantiate it.

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

A kid was stalked and murdered, and the police didn't even bother to investigate. All of us should be protesting.

There's zero evidence the kid was stalked, as opposed to merely being confronted and questioned.

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You have to ask how these same Black protesters who are currently crying racism would've reacted had the shooter been Black and the allegedly aggressive victim been White,

i. e. an incident w/zero video evidence in which a Black man claimed he shot a White man in self-defense but the cops were all over him trying to charge him with second-degree.

Guess who's side the protesters would've been on then. . .

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Except not.

Except obviously so.

No, it makes it sound like Zimmerman had a loaded gun because the statement was "Zimmerman had a loaded gun". You are mixing up inferences and implications.

Wrong.

No, you didn't say, the statement "makes it sound that way". You said, "the statement was made to sound that way" attributing intent to the author of the comment meaning that you distorted it. So again, you're talking about yourself.

What do you not understand of what I said?
The following statement; "Zimmerman approached a person with a loaded gun without cause or authority to do so." was made to sound like Zimmerman was brandishing his firearm when he wasn't.

It sounds that way because that is the way it was meant to sound by the author, and was made to sound that way because the author has a biased way of looking at the facts and twisting them to fit their preconceived narrative.

An unbiased version of this portion of the event would be Zimmerman had a loaded firearm on his person when contact between the two was made.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

[SUB][/SUB]

Your analogy is inapplicable since Florida's SYG law does not apply to someone resorting to deadly force, even in self defense, if they themselves are engaged in committing a felony. I have seen no evidence that Zimmerman was doing anything illegal while chasing Martin down.

Pretty sure its illegal.to disobey the instructions of a police officer, but its probably not a felony.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

There's zero evidence the kid was stalked, as opposed to merely being confronted and questioned.

But the kid confronted him first as evidenced from the girlfriend's statement.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Pretty sure its illegal.to disobey the instructions of a police officer, but its probably not a felony.

Zimmerman did not disobey the instructions of any officer in this event.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Zimmerman did not disobey the instructions of any officer in this event.

so if a 911 dispatcher tells you to do something, you don't have to do it?

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

There's zero evidence the kid was stalked, as opposed to merely being confronted and questioned.

Zimmermann had NO right and NO authority, to confront and question ANYONE!!!!!

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You have to ask how these same Black protesters who are currently crying racism would've reacted had the shooter been Black and the allegedly aggressive victim been White,....

why do you keep bringing this up?

what are you trying to say?

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

so if a 911 dispatcher tells you to do something, you don't have to do it?

It would appear not, under Florida law.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Zimmermann had NO right and NO authority, to confront and question ANYONE!!!!!

LE has come out to say that he was authorized and had undergone training to be a Neighborhood Watch volunteer. Emphasis probably ought to be on Watch.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

LE has come out to say that he was authorized and had undergone training to be a Neighborhood Watch volunteer. Emphasis probably ought to be on Watch.

since when does Neighborhood WATCH...have the right & authority to confront & question suspects?

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

so if a 911 dispatcher tells you to do something, you don't have to do it?

As reply:

I have read this thread from beginning to end and those that are all for convicting Zimmerman have a totally biased way of looking at the facts and twisting them to fit their preconceived narrative.

For instance; Zimmerman was told by police not not follow the individual.
That never happened. A 911 operator told Zimmerman that "they" didn't need him to follow
the individual. That is not an 'order'. That is not 'telling' him to do anything. All it is, is advice from an operator.

...

If people can not reiterate the facts without twisting them, their position is weak.

Zimmermann had NO right and NO authority, to confront and question ANYONE!!!!!

Says who?

Besides, your narrative is off.
Martin confronted Zimmerman first, as evidenced by the girlfriends statement.
It was only after this did he question martin.

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

why do you keep bringing this up?

what are you trying to say?

That the protesters' animosity toward police is motivated more by America's legacy of civil rights abuses than by a legitimate belief in the guilt of the shooter.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You have to ask how these same Black protesters who are currently crying racism would've reacted had the shooter been Black and the allegedly aggressive victim been White,

i. e. an incident w/zero video evidence in which a Black man claimed he shot a White man in self-defense but the cops were all over him trying to charge him with second-degree.

Guess who's side the protesters would've been on then. . .

If you haven't listened to the 911 calls, you should. I posted up a link earlier in the thread -- I'm sure others did as well. He was following the young man walking in his car. I call that stalking. (It'd scare me to death if a car was slowly following me.) He then called 911 and said the kid was suspicious. 911 asked his race, said they were dispatching a car. Interesting that they asked his race and not, "What is he wearing?" Yes?

Was this young man guilty of Black-White-Walking?

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

since when does Neighborhood WATCH...have the right & authority to confront & question suspects?

Seems consistent with the job description Whether he had any legal authority is irrelevant.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

That the protesters' animosity toward police is motivated more by America's legacy of civil rights abuses than by a legitimate belief in the guilt of the shooter.

even if you are right.....what's wrong with that?

 

[Porchev]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Sounds made up. There's no video evidence to substantiate it.

Does there always need to be video evidence to solve a crime? I am sure Zimmerman (who was armed with an inexpensive $200 gun) couldn't afford a car video camera for whatever POS he was driving. If he waited just a few minutes the police with video would have been there and this whole thing could have been avoided. Instead an innocent kid is dead and Zimmerman will probably do several years in jail eventually.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If you haven't listened to the 911 calls, you should. I posted up a link earlier in the thread -- I'm sure others did as well. He was following the young man walking in his car. I call that stalking. (It'd scare me to death if a car was slowly following me.) He then called 911 and said the kid was suspicious. 911 asked his race, said they were dispatching a car. Interesting that they asked his race and not, "What is he wearing?" Yes?

Was this young man guilty of Black-White-Walking?

I am going to have to listen again because I do not recall that his vehicle was moving at all, only that he was in it observing the individual.

Why do you find it interesting that they asked about his race?
Is that not an identifying characteristic?

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If you haven't listened to the 911 calls, you should. I posted up a link earlier in the thread -- I'm sure others did as well. He was following the young man walking in his car. I call that stalking. (It'd scare me to death if a car was slowly following me.) He then called 911 and said the kid was suspicious. 911 asked his race, said they were dispatching a car. Interesting that they asked his race and not, "What is he wearing?" Yes?

Was this young man guilty of Black-White-Walking?

There's no evidence the kid or Zimmerman are guilty of anything. That's why it makes no sense to charge Zimmerman with murder. After the kid was followed, a confrontation ensued, but the nature of that confrontation is unclear, except that fighting was involved.

If the kid punched Zimmerman simply because he was afraid or didn't like being questioned, it would've been sufficient cause for Zimmerman to fire.

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Does there always need to be video evidence to solve a crime? I am sure Zimmerman (who was armed with an inexpensive $200 gun) couldn't afford a car video camera for whatever POS he was driving. If he waited just a few minutes the police with video would have been there and this whole thing could have been avoided. Instead an innocent kid is dead and Zimmerman will probably do several years in jail eventually.

He may not go to jail at all. The local cops haven't charged him. And without video evidence, it's just his words against everyone else's. As for a video camera, he may have had one and just left it off.

 

[Travelsonic]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You have to ask how these same Black protesters who are currently crying racism would've reacted had the shooter been Black and the allegedly aggressive victim been White,
.

No, we don't have to ask this, since it is irrelevant, a red herring that does nothing in the scope of this discussion.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

...If the kid punched Zimmerman simply because he was afraid or didn't like being questioned, it would've been sufficient cause for Zimmerman to fire.

if Martin feared for his life, being questioned & confronted by a strange man in the middle of the night & rain, he had the right to use force against Zimmermann.

 

[solletica]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If he waited just a few minutes the police with video would have been there and this whole thing could have been avoided. Instead an innocent kid is dead and Zimmerman will probably do several years in jail eventually.

If he waited a few minutes, the kid would've ran away even if he did attack Zimmerman. That's the whole point of having a neighborhood watch--cops can't be everywhere all the time.

Plus, as a strong advocate of individual freedoms, I don't like communities where police (who may be potentially corrupt or serve a corrupt/racist municipality) are the prime law enforcers. I prefer a system where individuals defend themselves and police are called into service only upon request of the public to collect and store evidence if asked.

IN case anyone has forgotten, much of the abuses against Blacks prior to the Civil Rights era was instigated by police.