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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

radcen

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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

Pretty common sentiment. And I don't wholly disagree with it, but... can it be taken too far? It seems that some people mean to never speak ill of the dead. Ever. As if what that person did during life was irrelevant.

Disclaimer: It is incredibly rude to blast them right after they die, I agree wholeheartedly. "He was an asshole! :2mad:" at the funeral is uncalled for, for example. Even after the funeral, let some time pass. Be courteous and respectful to the people who might have liked the person. If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing.

Having said that, after a respectful time has passed, a few months IMO, if the person was an asshole in life they were an asshole in life. They and their legacy reaps what they sewed. I see no reason to lie.

I sense that I will probably be in the minority on this one.
 

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X Factor

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Speaking ill of the dead might make you a suspect in the subsequent murder investigation.
 

shrubnose

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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

Pretty common sentiment. And I don't wholly disagree with it, but... can it be taken too far? It seems that some people mean to never speak ill of the dead. Ever. As if what that person did during life was irrelevant.

Disclaimer: It is incredibly rude to blast them right after they die, I agree wholeheartedly. "He was an asshole! :2mad:" at the funeral is uncalled for, for example. Even after the funeral, let some time pass. Be courteous and respectful to the people who might have liked the person. If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing.

Having said that, after a respectful time has passed, a few months IMO, if the person was an asshole in life they were an asshole in life. They and their legacy reaps what they sewed. I see no reason to lie.

I sense that I will probably be in the minority on this one.



It depends on who you're talking about.

Not many people have anything good to say about Adolf Hitler for example.

Other than people like that I cut most people a lot of slack when they die.
 

radcen

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Speaking ill of the dead might make you a suspect in the subsequent murder investigation.
I watch a lot of true crime shows, and... seriously, yeah.

Should you ever find yourself in an interrogation room after a murder, and they're asking question as if you're a suspect, just STFU.
 

Paleocon

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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

Pretty common sentiment. And I don't wholly disagree with it, but... can it be taken too far? It seems that some people mean to never speak ill of the dead. Ever. As if what that person did during life was irrelevant.

Disclaimer: It is incredibly rude to blast them right after they die, I agree wholeheartedly. "He was an asshole! :2mad:" at the funeral is uncalled for, for example. Even after the funeral, let some time pass. Be courteous and respectful to the people who might have liked the person. If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing.

Having said that, after a respectful time has passed, a few months IMO, if the person was an asshole in life they were an asshole in life. They and their legacy reaps what they sewed. I see no reason to lie.

I sense that I will probably be in the minority on this one.

There's nothing good that can come of it. It's not good to speak ill of anyone without good reason, but especially the dead, since there is nothing that can be done about their behavior.
 

PIPEWRENCH

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Most people are good and bad. The saints and truly evil are very rare. Remembering people in a positive light is emphasizing on the glass being half full as apposed to the glass being half empty. Plus a lot of the time good and bad is more perspective than fact. The fact the dead person cannot express their side of the situation is most likely the reason for the statement do not speak ill of the dead. If you did not speak this way to their face and resolve the situation while they were alive it is now too late.

The fact that one person can see a train coming while at the same time another can see it leaving does not make one person wrong. They are simply observing the same thing from a different perspective. Speaking ill of the dead does not allow the person being spoken bad about to give his or her perspective and should not be done in most situations.
 

beerftw

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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

Pretty common sentiment. And I don't wholly disagree with it, but... can it be taken too far? It seems that some people mean to never speak ill of the dead. Ever. As if what that person did during life was irrelevant.

Disclaimer: It is incredibly rude to blast them right after they die, I agree wholeheartedly. "He was an asshole! :2mad:" at the funeral is uncalled for, for example. Even after the funeral, let some time pass. Be courteous and respectful to the people who might have liked the person. If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing.

Having said that, after a respectful time has passed, a few months IMO, if the person was an asshole in life they were an asshole in life. They and their legacy reaps what they sewed. I see no reason to lie.

I sense that I will probably be in the minority on this one.

Not speaking ill of the dead is a tradition, spanning thousands of years over numerous countries and religions. Speaking ill about someone who is dead is like accusing an employee of stealing who is on vacation, they are not there to defend themselves, therefore your words hold no ground anyways.
 

coldjoint

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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

Pretty common sentiment. And I don't wholly disagree with it, but... can it be taken too far? It seems that some people mean to never speak ill of the dead. Ever. As if what that person did during life was irrelevant.

Disclaimer: It is incredibly rude to blast them right after they die, I agree wholeheartedly. "He was an asshole! :2mad:" at the funeral is uncalled for, for example. Even after the funeral, let some time pass. Be courteous and respectful to the people who might have liked the person. If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing.

Having said that, after a respectful time has passed, a few months IMO, if the person was an asshole in life they were an asshole in life. They and their legacy reaps what they sewed. I see no reason to lie.

I sense that I will probably be in the minority on this one.

"Honesty is the best policy"
 

radcen

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Not speaking ill of the dead is a tradition, spanning thousands of years over numerous countries and religions. Speaking ill about someone who is dead is like accusing an employee of stealing who is on vacation, they are not there to defend themselves, therefore your words hold no ground anyways.
Maybe because I see people talk behind other's backs when they're not able to defend themselves I'm not seeing much of a difference. :shrug:
 

JumpinJack

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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

Pretty common sentiment. And I don't wholly disagree with it, but... can it be taken too far? It seems that some people mean to never speak ill of the dead. Ever. As if what that person did during life was irrelevant.

Disclaimer: It is incredibly rude to blast them right after they die, I agree wholeheartedly. "He was an asshole! :2mad:" at the funeral is uncalled for, for example. Even after the funeral, let some time pass. Be courteous and respectful to the people who might have liked the person. If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing.

Having said that, after a respectful time has passed, a few months IMO, if the person was an asshole in life they were an asshole in life. They and their legacy reaps what they sewed. I see no reason to lie.

I sense that I will probably be in the minority on this one.

That's usually said to people who say something too soon, or something mean and petty. Because the person isn't here to defend himself, it's hurtful to the family, and it's considered disrespectful.

That saying doesn't apply to historical people or facts, such as statements about Hitler. Or statements about facts. Example: "He was arrested for domestic abuse once." That's okay. "He was an SOB and used to beat people up." Not okay, under most circumstances.
 

radcen

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That's usually said to people who say something too soon, or something mean and petty. Because the person isn't here to defend himself, it's hurtful to the family, and it's considered disrespectful.

That saying doesn't apply to historical people or facts, such as statements about Hitler. Or statements about facts. Example: "He was arrested for domestic abuse once." That's okay. "He was an SOB and used to beat people up." Not okay, under most circumstances.
I don't know, was he and did he? :mrgreen:

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 

poweRob

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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

Pretty common sentiment. And I don't wholly disagree with it, but... can it be taken too far? It seems that some people mean to never speak ill of the dead. Ever. As if what that person did during life was irrelevant.

Disclaimer: It is incredibly rude to blast them right after they die, I agree wholeheartedly. "He was an asshole! :2mad:" at the funeral is uncalled for, for example. Even after the funeral, let some time pass. Be courteous and respectful to the people who might have liked the person. If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing.

Having said that, after a respectful time has passed, a few months IMO, if the person was an asshole in life they were an asshole in life. They and their legacy reaps what they sewed. I see no reason to lie.

I sense that I will probably be in the minority on this one.

I think it's tied to the notion that one shouldn't speak about someone who isn't there to defend themselves.
 

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It's a courtesy that should be extended to people who remained within the spectrum of acceptable human behavior. On the other hand, there are people - human in form but not in soul - whose imperfections and deformities should be paraded to deliberately dehumanize them and their ilk, dead or alive.
 

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Because they're watching you and might come back.
 

Ntharotep

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I just lost my Mom this week.
If someone came up and said "Your Mom was really no good."
I would hit them rather hard, hopefully bloodying their disrespectful mouth.

Ergo. Do not speak ill of the dead.

That being said. Time and place, and the person themselves play into this a lot too. People speak ill of Hitler all the time, most of us unapologetically.
Someone who has been dead awhile and/or likely has no one grieving for them is one thing.
But if someone is still grieving for the person (or several some ones), then putting your opinion above their feelings is the worse kind of self centered idiocy that can happen.
This is called respect (and really respect for those alive and mourning not for the dead) and hopefully it has not disappeared so completely that it can't be recognized and understood.
 

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I just lost my Mom this week.
If someone came up and said "Your Mom was really no good."
I would hit them rather hard, hopefully bloodying their disrespectful mouth.

Ergo. Do not speak ill of the dead.

That being said. Time and place, and the person themselves play into this a lot too. People speak ill of Hitler all the time, most of us unapologetically.
Someone who has been dead awhile and/or likely has no one grieving for them is one thing.
But if someone is still grieving for the person (or several some ones), then putting your opinion above their feelings is the worse kind of self centered idiocy that can happen.
This is called respect (and really respect for those alive and mourning not for the dead) and hopefully it has not disappeared so completely that it can't be recognized and understood.

You have my condolences. It's always hard to loose a parent.
 

radcen

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Fast forward to today:

So much for that noble notion.

Phyllis Schlafly: I have seen much more vitriol over her death, here at DP and elsewhere... and pretty much exclusively from the political left... than I have seen regarding virtually anyone else in recent memory.

I guess respecting the dead is yet another thing people like to think they do, unless it's someone they don't like. Then it's ok, because, well... we see them as a bad person and our judgment is without fault.

I've literally seen a couple people say things like, "I know you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead, but in this case..." What the hell is that? Per my previous posts in this thread I'm not as dogmatic regarding the concept as many claim to be, but really I am seeing a great deal of hypocrisy here.
 

Cephus

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I don't think it's rude at all. Reality is reality. I'm not afraid to speak the truth at any time and since I don't fear death at all like most people seem to, I don't have any more respect for the dead than I do while they're alive. If someone is an ass, I say so, regardless of the circumstances.
 

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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

The only thing worse than a Zombie invasion is if some are looking specifically for you?
 

Aunt Spiker

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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

Pretty common sentiment. And I don't wholly disagree with it, but... can it be taken too far? It seems that some people mean to never speak ill of the dead. Ever. As if what that person did during life was irrelevant.

Disclaimer: It is incredibly rude to blast them right after they die, I agree wholeheartedly. "He was an asshole! :2mad:" at the funeral is uncalled for, for example. Even after the funeral, let some time pass. Be courteous and respectful to the people who might have liked the person. If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing.

Having said that, after a respectful time has passed, a few months IMO, if the person was an asshole in life they were an asshole in life. They and their legacy reaps what they sewed. I see no reason to lie.

I sense that I will probably be in the minority on this one.

Hmm - well I've never really come across a situation in real life during which that was said. Though I think it might be more for the family, not the deceased.

But if a living person can get over what a dead person did . . . well then talk about holding a grudge. lol dayum.

Discussions someone's bad behavior, etc, while they're alive serves a purpose (like cautioning people against dating so-n-so or trusting so-n-so with money). But after they're dead it has no impact and it's just the living person hanging on to something that needs to be let go of. Nothing will happen as a result. He/she's still dead and it's all a waste of effort.
 

RAMOSS

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Fast forward to today:

So much for that noble notion.

Phyllis Schlafly: I have seen much more vitriol over her death, here at DP and elsewhere... and pretty much exclusively from the political left... than I have seen regarding virtually anyone else in recent memory.

I guess respecting the dead is yet another thing people like to think they do, unless it's someone they don't like. Then it's ok, because, well... we see them as a bad person and our judgment is without fault.

I've literally seen a couple people say things like, "I know you're not supposed to speak ill of the dead, but in this case..." What the hell is that? Per my previous posts in this thread I'm not as dogmatic regarding the concept as many claim to be, but really I am seeing a great deal of hypocrisy here.

Well, I think for the most part, it is out of respect of their survivors.
 

digsbe

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I think it's because people are likely in mourning and it just adds to unnecessary pain for them to hear ill talk regarding their loved one.
 

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"Don't speak ill of the dead." Why?

Pretty common sentiment. And I don't wholly disagree with it, but... can it be taken too far? It seems that some people mean to never speak ill of the dead. Ever. As if what that person did during life was irrelevant.

Disclaimer: It is incredibly rude to blast them right after they die, I agree wholeheartedly. "He was an asshole! :2mad:" at the funeral is uncalled for, for example. Even after the funeral, let some time pass. Be courteous and respectful to the people who might have liked the person. If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing.

Having said that, after a respectful time has passed, a few months IMO, if the person was an asshole in life they were an asshole in life. They and their legacy reaps what they sewed. I see no reason to lie.

I sense that I will probably be in the minority on this one.

I don't see any value in lies such as "Hitler was a nice guy."

I guess i see it a bit differently, for the sake of the friends and family of the deceased, people should be careful about what they say of the dead. That's not to say it should be (or should not be) sugar coated, but if it's negative, it shouldn't be exaggerated.

Some of this Phyllis stuff sounds exaggerated to me. I'd be lying if i said i felt no satisfaction about Scalia no longer serving on SCOTUS, but i tried to recognize that it would be obscene to celebrate his passing. In fact, i looked for the best Scalia quote i could find :

"What is a moderate interpretation of the text? Halfway between what it really means and what you'd like it to mean?"

I guess i don't generally see a person as properly symbolized by their worst ideas, and i think their best ideas are the ones we should continue to promote.
 
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