Do you have a right to own a pet?

[Jack Hays]

 

[Lursa]

What makes this all enjoyable for me is that you were being dishonest right from the start. You knew right when you made that post that it was crap, and you showed this was the case when you admitted that I was in fact right with by simple and yet short counter argument. What makes it funny is that now you are returning with another dishonest argument about rights. You and I both know that you believe rights is an artificial construct, and if that is true, then they can't be used in a discussion about objective reality. The only reason you even brought it up is that you know you're screwed here and you need an out for your failure.

Oh and btw, yes, vasectomies are objectively harmful.

Not a single accurate (or even comprehensible) thought in your first paragraph. Not even a basis for a response...it's so far out it could be circling the moon.

I failed nothing (and you didnt even enumerate anything, lol) and no, vasectomies are a choice and if the objective of that choice is non-reproduction, then it is enabling, helpful...not harmful. So so sorry, Charlie.

 

[Henrin]

Not a single accurate (or even comprehensible) thought in your first paragraph. Not even a basis for a response...it's so far out it could be circling the moon.

Whatever you say, Lursa, You started our talk with a dishonest argument about the benefits to a male dog getting castrated and you ended our talk with a dishonest argument about rights. You can either admit that fact or not, I don't care.

I failed nothing (and you didnt even enumerate anything, lol) and no, vasectomies are a choice and if the objective of that choice is non-reproduction, then it is enabling, helpful...not harmful. So so sorry, Charlie.

People can choose to harm themselves, you know.

 

[Lursa]

Whatever you say, Lursa, You started our talk with a dishonest argument about the benefits to a male dog getting castrated and you ended our talk with a dishonest argument about rights. You can either admit that fact or not, I don't care.



People can choose to harm themselves, you know.

I said nothing dishonest about rights...dogs have no rights. To compare dogs to humans with regards to rights is more than apples/oranges, it's fire and water.

And feel free to tell me exactly what 'harm' is done to the man in a vasectomy? If he doesnt want to have a functioning reproductive system, there is zero harm. Are you claiming there is some 'imaginary mandate' that declares a human must retain such functionality? lol

 

[Henrin]

I said nothing dishonest about rights...dogs have no rights. To compare dogs to humans with regards to rights is more than apples/oranges, it's fire and water.

I said nothing about rights in any of my posts before you mentioned them. We were talking about a certain objective reality, and since you don't believe rights are anything more than man made, they don't fit into the discussion we were having. Objectively speaking there are plenty of differences you could have found in the consequences of castration between dogs and male humans, but instead you ran to something you believe is man made to find a difference. I find your argument on rights meaningless outside of current legal reality, and therefore a poor way to establish an argument.

 

[Lursa]

I said nothing about rights in any of my posts before you mentioned them. We were talking about a certain objective reality, and since you don't believe rights are anything more than man made, they don't fit into the discussion we were having. Objectively speaking there are plenty of differences you could have found in the consequences of castration between dogs and male humans, but instead you ran to something you believe is man made to find a difference. I find your argument on rights meaningless outside of current legal reality, and therefore a poor way to establish an argument.

LOLOL Then you are not using planet Earth as an example. Because it's silly to discuss the neutering of human males (against their will) except in dystopia or sci-fi. Rights are the main reason for that....

You have no argument here, you went waaaayyyy off the reservation, dont ask me why.

 

[Henrin]

LOLOL Then you are not using planet Earth as an example. Because it's silly to discuss the neutering of human males (against their will) except in dystopia or sci-fi. Rights are the main reason for that....

You have no argument here, you went waaaayyyy off the reservation, dont ask me why.

What are you even talking about? I only mentioned human males to make clear to you that the benefits you listed for castrating dogs would all work towards male humans. You admitted I was right in pointing this out and even went further and said it applied to all male mammals. Now you appear to want to claim the difference is man made, which is of course invalid as an argument in the discussion we were having since we were not talking about anything created by man, but instead something that deals with nature.

 

[Lursa]

What are you even talking about? I only mentioned human males to make clear to you that the benefits you listed for castrating dogs would all work towards male humans. You admitted I was right in pointing this out and even went further and said it applied to all male mammals. Now you appear to want to claim the difference is man made, which is of course invalid as an argument in the discussion we were having since we were not talking about anything created by man, but instead something that deals with nature.

It would work towards males. It's proven in eunuchs. It is factual, it is reality, and it applies to and in most cases, 'protects' our pets.

 

[Henrin]

It would work towards males. It's proven in eunuchs. It is factual, it is reality, and it applies to and in most cases, 'protects' our pets.

Yes, it is proven in castrated men. It is also proven in science by looking at exactly why men live shorter lives and how testosterone plays a role in that. This is only further enforced by looking at the average lifespans of men with high levels of testosterone compared to men with lower levels. In any event, if castration acts to 'protect' male dogs then it would follow that castration would act to 'protect' male humans. This is of course only somewhat true in both cases as there is both positive and negative consequences. In male dogs for example it is connected to an increase in prostate cancer and other cancers.

 

[X Factor]

How is getting a animal fixed or declawed screwing with it's genetics?

And honestly, I don't even have much concern for that because them getting fixed or declawed, is way better than those animals getting put to sleep.

I don't have cats so I don't know but declawing cats does seem cruel and I've heard the recovery is pretty painful.

 

[Henrin]

Just going to leave this here:

Declawing Cats: Far Worse Than a Manicure : The Humane Society of the United States

 

[Absentglare]

Greetings, Absentglare. :2wave:

Unless those little dogs have a heated pet house, that is animal cruelty where I live, and the police would be called! Dogs are warm-blooded beings, and they suffer from cold just like humans, and treating them so callously is wrong! :thumbdown:

Hey polgara !

I agree it is cruel, based on everyone's feedback here, i should probably do something if i continue to notice the behavior.

I would really like to give my neighbors the opportunity to resolve the situation on their own, but i fear that trying to take that upon myself could backfire. If we see them, stranded out there, in the snow, we can call the police and let them manage my neighbors.

I hate to separate the dogs from their family, but no dog deserves to be treated like that.

 

[Absentglare]

I don't have cats so I don't know but declawing cats does seem cruel and I've heard the recovery is pretty painful.

It can be considered physical mutilation, and it's very painful.

Realistically, though, it doesn't mess with their genetics, and there are plenty of cats in dire need of homes already. If we couldn't have their claws removed, there'd be even fewer homes willing to welcome cats.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

No. I think the idea of owning animals is absurd and has resulted in all sorts of harms to the animals being done.

Yeah, having a house pet is so abusive. I mean, look at how horrible of a life my dog has.

 

[tomkat364]

In a broad stroke I will agree with you.

However we need to make some points first, specifically with dogs. Dogs and man, it seems, go back to pre-historic times, some suspect as a result of wild dogs following human hunting packs and becoming familiar.

Next, we also see that the main breeds of dogs, until the last two decades, are advancements on the original.

Next, I have to ask what's wrong with that? Has either humankind or dogs been harmed? I suspect had they not become tame the would be near extinct like their wolf cousins. Further, we have the result of some magnificent animals, Newfoundland Retriever's who leap from helicopters to rescue people, seeing eye dogs, companion dogs for the dying and children with serious diseases. Search and rescue dogs which go wild with glee at finding people alive! I know of no better animal to have around children, especially a Labrador or a Newfoundland.

How many homes have not been broken into because there was a dog at home? How many rapes or muggings didn't happen because of our amazing kinship with canines. Yeah, we changed things, but for once we can say for the good. You only need to see the face of a seriously ill child who meets his companion dog....

Some dog breeds are actually harmful mutations. Bassett Hounds especially are the dog version of achondroplastic dwarfism, and tend to suffer from arthritis very early in life. Would they be better off never having been born? Not making that claim. But we have selectively maintained a harmful condition for our own purposes. But overall, as I said in my first post, I think domestic dogs are, for the most part, better off than their wild counterparts.

 

[Henrin]

Yeah, having a house pet is so abusive. I mean, look at how horrible of a life my dog has.

Where are his testicles? If he was not abused they would still be there.

 

[_Sal]

Where are his testicles? If he was not abused they would still be there.

your opinion is based on misinformation

https://www.cesarsway.com/dog-care/spay-and-neuter/12-things-you-need-to-know-about-spay-neuter

Spaying or neutering your dog is an important part of responsible pack leadership.

It not only helps keep your dog safe from a number of medical issues, but it also helps reduce overpopulation. Every day, pets across the nation are euthanized because shelters don’t have the space or resources to care for them. By spaying or neutering your dog, you are helping to stop this tragic problem

or

Why You Should Spay/Neuter Your Pet : The Humane Society of the United States

Pets are homeless everywhere

In every community, in every state, there are homeless animals. In the U.S., there are an estimated 6-8 million homeless animals entering animal shelters every year. Barely half of these animals are adopted. Tragically, the rest are euthanized. These are healthy, sweet pets who would have made great companions.

The number of homeless animals varies by state—in some states there are as many as 300,000 homeless animals euthanized in animal shelters every year. These are not the offspring of homeless "street" animals—these are the puppies and kittens of cherished family pets and even purebreds.

Many people are surprised to learn that nationwide, more than 2.7 million healthy, adoptable cats and dogs are euthanized in shelters annually. Spay/neuter is the only permanent, 100 percent effective method of birth control for dogs and cats.

 

[TheGoverness]

Where are his testicles? If he was not abused they would still be there.

He was fixed, not abused.

 

[Henrin]

He was fixed, not abused.

The difference escapes me.

 

[TheGoverness]

The difference escapes me.

Well I don't know how the 'difference escapes you' when those two things are entirely different.

 

[Henrin]

Well I don't know how the 'difference escapes you' when those two things are entirely different.

Cutting off a dogs healthy testicles is abuse. I really can not understand why people don't see that.

 

[Henrin]

your opinion is based on misinformation

https://www.cesarsway.com/dog-care/spay-and-neuter/12-things-you-need-to-know-about-spay-neuter





or

Why You Should Spay/Neuter Your Pet : The Humane Society of the United States

None of which disarms my argument or anything I didn't already now. It should however be noted, again, that fixing an animal increases their risk to certain health conditions. I have already provided a short list of such conditions earlier in the thread.

 

[Medusa]

Do you have a right? Or should you? What do you think?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:shock: we should look at the holy book

 

[_Sal]

None of which disarms my argument or anything I didn't already now. It should however be noted, again, that fixing an animal increases their risk to certain health conditions. I have already provided a short list of such conditions earlier in the thread.

a couple of things....it's called "fixing" for a reason

and while it may increase their risk to certain health conditions that is more than balanced by the health conditions that it prevents

including poor behaviour that may lead to it's destruction and the increased number of animals bred since there are clearly many people who take pets in only to release them to a hellish survival and early death

I would have no problem jailing those people over drug users

 

[Henrin]

a couple of things....it's called "fixing" for a reason

Fix - To restore to proper condition or working order; repair

Go ahead and tell me what is broken with the testicles of a healthy male puppy.

and while it may increase their risk to certain health conditions that is more than balanced by the health conditions that it prevents

That is just empty rationalizing.

including poor behaviour that may lead to it's destruction and the increased number of animals bred since there are clearly many people who take pets in only to release them to a hellish survival and early death

That literally applies to all mammals.