Do you have a right to own a pet?

[chromium]

Pets have it made better than most humans. What fate likely awaits them otherwise - getting run over or put to death in an animal 'shelter'

Of course, my bad took in a stray cat and proceeded to run it over backing out of the garage one day, so i guess both are possible

 

[Henrin]

Mine too. They absolutely go bonkers with happiness when any of us comes home after being gone for more than 10 minutes.

I hate to burst your bubble, but I feel it should be pointed out for the benefit of you and your pets that the behavior you are seeing is associated with separation anxiety issues that animals can suffer from.

 

[X Factor]

It's more like my dogs own me.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Ok, so how exactly are we harming animals genetics? The only thing we've done with animals (like dogs and cats) is just domesticate them over time.

The extreme interbreeding we have done in order to create pretty or cute breeds has led to all manner of painful and uncomfortable diseases and defects like hip displacia, luxating patellas, and progressive retinal atrophy. Hell, we even have something called pug dog encephalitis, limited specifically to that breed.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be able to own dogs. Just answering your question.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Yep. Moral. Sorry I meant to clarify. Should you have some distinct legal protections when owning a pet.

Since we are in the Law and Order section of the forums I just wanted to ensure I was clear on what we were talking about.

But a moral conversation on pet ownership is a door you probably do not want to open.

Right off the top, just because we may agree that there are various concerns over the moral idea of owning an animal that does not mean that all animals owned (either pets, or in farming, or on property) would be all of a sudden prepared for a lack of ownership. Exclusively talking about domesticated pets (dogs and cats) we have a real problem with the idea that we can go backwards quickly without causing irretrievable harm to millions of them. Forget the logistics of the problem, the flip side of the coin is the moral implication of all these pets no longer being pets.

It becomes even worse of an issue when thinking about what we need to do to existing law or regulation in handling "distinct legal protections." For whom, the owner or the pet? Most states already have fairly strict laws on what can be owned and what conditions it may be in, and we already have various licensing considerations in existence now. Similar story for how they must be treated.

Before we get too much further in a conversation bound for disaster... explicitly tell us exactly what you are looking for? Protections for who and in what context? Otherwise all we have left is a thread that can go in any number of directions and none of them very good.

 

[Gaius46]

No. I think the idea of owning animals is absurd and has resulted in all sorts of harms to the animals being done.

That ship sailed about 10,000 years ago.

Dogs and people, cats and people have developed a symbiotic relationship that isn't likely to ever change

 

[blackjack50]

So getting the ends of your fingers cut off is a good thing? Being stuck inside and never allowed out is again a good thing? So basically, cutting off the end of your fingers and cages are good things.

Cat's aren't people my friend. They aren't equivalent.

As for your other argument, come on, there is no reason to even bother with justification arguments. You know it causes the animals harm, but you want to justify it by saying, but wait, it has benefits. I have no ability to tolerate such foolishness.

It HARMS the animal to get them fixed? Really? Can you please demonstrate that harm?

 

[blackjack50]

Since he posted under 'Law & Order', rather than 'Philosophical Discussions', it would seem to be a discussion in terms of legality.

My take on it, anyway ...

Yea. I wish they had a political theory section. It isn't really philosophy. To me it is closer to law and order because "should we have it this way." But other PTs might be closer to the other side.

 

[Chomsky]

Yea. I wish they had a political theory section. It isn't really philosophy. To me it is closer to law and order because "should we have it this way." But other PTs might be closer to the other side.

To the bolded:

Now that would be a helluva' interesting section, I bet!

Move over, John Locke! :cheers:

 

[Henrin]

Cat's aren't people my friend. They aren't equivalent.



It HARMS the animal to get them fixed? Really? Can you please demonstrate that harm?

I have to wonder if society lacks the ability to rationally understand harm. Castration is clearly a harm by the fact that it causes hormonal and functionality changes, but I'm going to guess that isn't good enough for you. Ok, what about the increase risk of bone, urinary tract, and prostate cancer, increased risk of obesity, increased risk of hip dysplasia, increased risk hemangiosarcoma, a higher instance of cranial cruciate ligament rupture, increased risk of lymphoma, an increased risk urinary tract disease, an increase in kidney stones, and an increased instance of urethral sphincter incontinence. Should I go on?

 

[Top Cat]

Really? Is owning a dog harming it is some way?

Punishable by death in Henrin's world.

 

[eohrnberger]

Mine too. They absolutely go bonkers with happiness when any of us comes home after being gone for more than 10 minutes.
They spend hours and hours curled up in our laps at night as we wind down from the day.

I've often said if reincarnation was a thing, and I was to come back as an animal, I'd want to come back as one of our pets.

They are kept safe, warm, fed, healthy, and loved beyond all reasonable scales of measurement.

Same here. Forgot to mention the excellent medical plan they have too.

 

[eohrnberger]

Define pet.

We talking dogs & cats? Fish? Lizard? Snake? Rat? Hamster? Cricket? Spider?
Larger cats? Horses? Rabbits?

What about a pet monkey? That didn't end well for one lady not long ago did it?

What about wild animals? Squirrels? Raccoons? Ducks?

It's illegal to own plenty of animals as pets. Endangered species come to mind. Plenty of exotic animals.

Remember the little painted turtles you could buy in the pet stores with the see-through plastic container you could fill with water. Had a little island in the center with a plastic palm tree. Can't have those anymore.


So what exactly are we talking about here?

You're kidding? No more little turtles? How come?

 

[Fearandloathing]

To be fair, we have selectively bred dogs for all sorts of reasons, which is definitely genetic alteration. We have inserted colorful genes into fish. We bob tails and ears. We definitely can be accused of unnecessarily messing with animals in order to domesticate them. That being said, I'm not supporting the claim that our influence is always detrimental. I think most domesticated pets have it much better than their wild counterparts. But not all. Most humans prefer to sit on the couch and have food brought to them, why would other animals be any different?

In a broad stroke I will agree with you.

However we need to make some points first, specifically with dogs. Dogs and man, it seems, go back to pre-historic times, some suspect as a result of wild dogs following human hunting packs and becoming familiar.

Next, we also see that the main breeds of dogs, until the last two decades, are advancements on the original.

Next, I have to ask what's wrong with that? Has either humankind or dogs been harmed? I suspect had they not become tame the would be near extinct like their wolf cousins. Further, we have the result of some magnificent animals, Newfoundland Retriever's who leap from helicopters to rescue people, seeing eye dogs, companion dogs for the dying and children with serious diseases. Search and rescue dogs which go wild with glee at finding people alive! I know of no better animal to have around children, especially a Labrador or a Newfoundland.

How many homes have not been broken into because there was a dog at home? How many rapes or muggings didn't happen because of our amazing kinship with canines. Yeah, we changed things, but for once we can say for the good. You only need to see the face of a seriously ill child who meets his companion dog....

 

[Fearandloathing]

my two dogs would vehemently disagree as to not being allowed to be pets

as they are both spoiled beyond belief

with my wife being a chef, there are notoriously scraps left over from catering orders (a lot of them go to our dogs)

both dogs also go to doggie daycare 5 days a week....to play and romp with other dogs

between food, daycare, vets, and general visits for baths & nails....i hate to think what i spend on those two dogs annually

but what i get in return is unconditional love....and i double dog dare anyone to try and come into my house at night

between my 120 lb choc lab, and my 100 lb rottie....i guarantee there are easier places to try and rob

Early on I said to God, if there are no dogs in heaven, I'm not going.

 

[Dragonfly]

You're kidding? No more little turtles? How come?

Some guy named Sal ruined it.

Sal Monella.

Pet Turtles: Cute But Commonly Contaminated with <em>Salmonella</em>

 

[Dragonfly]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I feel it should be pointed out for the benefit of you and your pets that the behavior you are seeing is associated with separation anxiety issues that animals can suffer from.

Yes...all that sleeping they do together while we're gone is highly stressful. :roll:

Seriously, is your ignorance growing at exponential rates?

 

[RetiredUSN]

No. I think the idea of owning animals is absurd and has resulted in all sorts of harms to the animals being done.

Tell that to my two "hooligans" who I have to bribe with doggy chews just to get some couch time or access to my EZ chair.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Do you have a right? Or should you? What do you think?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. And I rather think we shouldn't.

However, we have crippled some types of animals so extensively that they are incapable of living on their own (not to mention all the health-related suffering they endure, and for some, even mental suffering -- hybrids need to be banned). But even of those who make it at feral life, they wind up being highly destructive invasive species. And simply killing them is also an unacceptable solution, to me. They're still capable of enjoyment, suffering, and desiring their life.

So, they're here, whether anyone agrees with it or not, and they need someplace to go. I adopt animals from shelters and ensure they never breed by neutering, or adopting one who already is (as far as it causing them suffering, baloney -- it's nothing compared to them likely dying of cancer in middle age due to not being neutered, or creating more unwanted litters to suffer after them). I try to give them the best environment I possibly can, with the limitations they have, and I have.

As much as I enjoy my cat, and previous pets I've provided a home for, if some day they're not around anymore, I can't say I won't think it's for the best.

 

[Henrin]

Yes...all that sleeping they do together while we're gone is highly stressful. :roll:

Seriously, is your ignorance growing at exponential rates?

I'm sure you have a reason to insult me for what I said, but I can't see what it is.

 

[eohrnberger]

Some guy named Sal ruined it.

Sal Monella.

Pet Turtles: Cute But Commonly Contaminated with <em>Salmonella</em>

Aaahhh. Right. Reptile. OK. That makes sense. Same thing with Kimodo dragons, it's what makes their bite so bad. Well, in addition to the razor sharp teeth too.

 

[RetiredUSN]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I feel it should be pointed out for the benefit of you and your pets that the behavior you are seeing is associated with separation anxiety issues that animals can suffer from.

They cope with it just like humans do.

 

[Absentglare]

No.

My neighbor leaves their three little dogs outside, even in the snow, every day.

 

[RetiredUSN]

No.

My neighbor leaves their three little dogs outside, even in the snow, every day.

Call the local animal rights people/SPCA. The dogs will get a new home with owners who will actually love them..............and you you can be a freaking hero!

 

[Absentglare]

Call the local animal rights people/SPCA. The dogs will get a new home with owners who will actually love them..............and you you can be a freaking hero!

I worry that they'll just go get new dogs.

One of their dogs died (it was pretty old) and they had a replacement within the week.

I was thinking of building them a doghouse.