Democrats and liberals - are you sick of the SJW Left?

[Hawkeye10]

I've never been very fond of "safe spaces". Saddle-up and fight for your political/social positions.

Either fight for something right or get out of the way of the better people, those who try.....

If they need to go to an infirmary OK but they need to understand that they are the ones who dont measure up.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I've never been very fond of "safe spaces". Saddle-up and fight for your political/social positions.

Not to mention, a college campus is the very last place on Earth one should be able to demand "safe spaces".
If those tender little ducklings can't figure out how to tame their skulls full of mush and turn the mush into brains, then they don't belong in college in the first place.

 

[Carjosse]

Martin Luther King was a "SJW". When someone uses the concept of being a "social justice warrior" in a derogatory manner, I see someone who believes that wanting equal justice for everyone under the law is an unacceptable burden on conservative whites.

In effect, it's like a minority using the term "Whitey Lover" to disparage anyone who doesn't hate whites. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why anyone with an IQ beyond that of a boiled turnip would in good conscience believe it to be some kind of politically correct pejorative.

Martin Luther King stood for real issues, actual equal rights. There is a stark difference between equality before the law and equality of opportunity compared to what these people want. They want equality of outcome, that is not real equality. For example schools should not have lowered admission requirements based on a student's race. Not to mention their ridiculous ideas about race, gender, weight, etc. that fly in the face of facts and common sense.

Take the issue of police violence, there is a difference between people fighting for reform and chnages in how police deal with dangerous situations and the SJWs who want to solve the problem by just minimizing the presence of police or letting minorities get away with crimes.

 

[Rosie1]

Let's try this again. My internet service is bad today.

I'm not tired of the SJW's. I think we could in fact use more of them. I wish their numbers were enough to elect their candidates. A vote for Stein in the last election, actually helped Trump out.

 

[The Mark]

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

It depends on the specific case, and my knowledge of it - if I know little, I'll not say they're wrong or right.

I think you could probably find examples where things were taken too far, but generally speaking social justice isn't a bad thing....I think?

 

[DiAnna]

No NO NO NO, not referring to classical heroes from the past.
I'm talking about the kind of people you see on college campuses today screaming for SAFE SPACES.

I call them what they are: Anarchists.

They don't seek social justice, or they wouldn't try to censor those they disagree with and cause chaos among the rest. They're just anarchists with a fancy slogan.

I never even heard the word "Antifa" until Charlottesville; when I said as much on DP, I was called a liar because "everyone in Northern California knows exactly what Antifa is, because Berkeley is in Northern California."

Frankly, DP is the only place I've seen "SJW' used; I actually was called an SJW in a thread, and had to google it.

 

[Celebrity]

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

What's an SJW? Does that include men's rights activism? If so, then no, I'm not fed up with it. I think the ultra left does not include MRA's, and that feminism has become largely a right wing phenomenon.

Think about it. Feminists want an authoritarian government. What you call the "ultra left" folks found on campus could identify with the right wingers who want to control men. And I think that they share some common authoritarian goals. How many libertarians can you find on campus?

Frankly, DP is the only place I've seen "SJW' used; I actually was called an SJW in a thread, and had to google it.

That's rich!

 

[Redress]

No NO NO NO, not referring to classical heroes from the past.
I'm talking about the kind of people you see on college campuses today screaming for SAFE SPACES.

So a handful of people doing stuff that does not affect you in any way have your panties in a bunch? And, surprise, you want to tie them to liberals and democrats...what a shock...That is right up there with tying white nationalists to the republican party...

 

[TheGoverness]

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

Yes, they are very annoying.

 

[AGENT J]

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

No clue what a SJW is, its a made up term that everybody has thier own definitions for and hence has become pretty meaningless. At this point you can assume more about the person using the term than the people the term is being applied too.

Anyway, Extremists are bad no matter if they are left or right.

 

[OlNate]

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

Yes, and no. Some of the tactics used by the fringe left (I don't really like the SJW term, as it's a derogatory term used to dismiss people trying to drive goodness in the world, regardless of how annoyingly they do it) are, well, annoying, to say the least...and some are self defeating, absolutely.

But I guess I'd rather live in a world where people annoyingly try to make it better, than to have no one trying to make it better at all.

If I run into an activist that is a little out there, I will examine their issue as objectively as I can, and decide whether to support them based on the issue, not their methodology. After I decide if their issue is something I can get behind, I will then look at their methodology and decide if I want to participate in their activism. If I can't participate directly with them, because I don't agree with their tack, I can still champion their goals on my own, by being a voice for the issue, without condoning or participating in their methodology.

Of course, if I am not aligned with their issue or message, I'll walk away...or if I'm here, I'll debate them.

So, ya, I guess I'm gonna pick other?

The important thing for me is not to let my annoyance or first impression prevent me from at least hearing them out.

 

[Kobie]

I call them what they are: Anarchists.

They don't seek social justice, or they wouldn't try to censor those they disagree with and cause chaos among the rest. They're just anarchists with a fancy slogan.

I never even heard the word "Antifa" until Charlottesville; when I said as much on DP, I was called a liar because "everyone in Northern California knows exactly what Antifa is, because Berkeley is in Northern California."

Frankly, DP is the only place I've seen "SJW' used; I actually was called an SJW in a thread, and had to google it.

Avoid Twitter, then. “SJW” is all over the place there.

 

[ashurbanipal]

No NO NO NO, not referring to classical heroes from the past.
I'm talking about the kind of people you see on college campuses today screaming for SAFE SPACES.

I'm not exactly sick of them...but I do think they sometimes go too far, and I find it idiotic when they do. Examples:

1. There was a university in Sweden recently that removed all the urinals from the men's restrooms, with the intent of forcing men to sit while urinating. The idea was that, somehow or other, when a man stands up to urinate, he is expressing his disdain for women and his superiority over them. I doubt very seriously such thoughts are widespread among urinating men, however--usually when I make a pit stop, my thoughts aren't about how superior I am to a woman because I can urinate standing up. My thoughts are usually more like "Aaaahhhh....now make sure not to get any on your pants." The university in question originally thought to hire monitors in men's restrooms to force men to sit while urinating, but fortunately the administration realized that would be going too far (and would be probably illegal). So now all the men just urinate standing up in a standard stall.

2. One of my colleagues, a few years ago, passed around a sheet listing examples of microaggression. Some were understandable (i.e. don't ask black students whether they play basketball or football for the campus team--assumes the only reason a black person would be at the university is through an athletic scholarship). Some were not--the sheet listed saying "hello" to someone else as a microaggression, though I don't recall the justification because it made no damn sense. I smile and say hello to people every day, despite the advice of this colleague, and I've never gotten the impression that anyone to whom I smile and say hello has been injured.

3. Trigger-warnings are, for the most part, bloody ridiculous. I get it for a soldier who has seen combat and who may not want to hear my compadres in the humanities or history departments lecturing in too much detail about the results of war, or a survivor of sexual assault not wanting to delve too deeply into the philosophy of sex. Those cases are comparatively rare. But many students these days want to use such as an excuse to not confront difficult and uncomfortable topics. Guess what? You're in college now, this is real life, and you damn well have to confront stuff that makes you uncomfortable. Can't hide your head in the sand your whole life.

In general, all human beings ought to be treated with equality and decency. But as with the pursuit of any ideal, it's certainly possible to go overboard.

 

[American]

Martin Luther King was a "SJW". When someone uses the concept of being a "social justice warrior" in a derogatory manner, I see someone who believes that wanting equal justice for everyone under the law is an unacceptable burden on conservative whites.

In effect, it's like a minority using the term "Whitey Lover" to disparage anyone who doesn't hate whites. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why anyone with an IQ beyond that of a boiled turnip would in good conscience believe it to be some kind of politically correct pejorative.

Every single SJW after MLK, failed MLK.

 

[Mach]

Trump said :'Some Very Fine People on Both Sides' I suppose Trump supporters agree, SWJ include very fine people.

People who push for reasonable social issues? No, it's a natural progression of ridding ourselves of the ignorance of the past, they are valued.
The extremist nutters who act like fascists? Yeah, of course, been sick of them for a while. I think most non-extremist adults are. I don't consider them liberal/progressive. When I think liberal/progressive on social issues, it's marijuana, love and peace and sex, equality, non discrimination, etc.
When we're talking about the SJW nutters, we're talking about attacks on free speech, defamation, bullying, blackmail, extortion, illegal hacking, potential stalking, ruining peoples lives for disagreeing with you, etc. These are not liberal values.

This seems to be in part related to social media, the ability to talk without backing things up (with reasons, not violence...for the violent-minded in our forums), coupled with the bully/boycott/extortion/blackmail power of the internet. Bill Maher bashes them probably every other episode, and has Barry Weiss on periodically now I think, who tells it like it is, mocking their stupidity.

We are bad at dealing with social media propaganda right now. The right uses most forms of media far more effectively for power (see right wing conspiracy theory/propaganda machine). SJWs use it apparently for notoriety on the internet. Either we'll figure out how to adjust to it without laws, or we'll need to clamp down on the worst of it (or both).

 

[MrWonka]

Another poll, this one designed to gauge the liberal perception of the ultra-Left folks found mostly on campus, known as "social justice warriors".
I'm sure some folks on the Right may be eager to weigh in but that's not what the poll is designed for.

So you're telling us you're against Justice? Are you against the truth and the American way too?

 

[MrWonka]

No NO NO NO, not referring to classical heroes from the past.
I'm talking about the kind of people you see on college campuses today screaming for SAFE SPACES.

Classical heroes from the past fought people just like you trying to paint them as fringe lunatics. In Twenty years today's social justice warriors will be classic heroes and everyone who let this disgusting abomination into the white house will be looked upon with the same disdain as the KKK.

 

[Waddy]

SJW is what you end up with when every kid gets a trophy.

 

[X Factor]

Classical heroes from the past fought people just like you trying to paint them as fringe lunatics. In Twenty years today's social justice warriors will be classic heroes and everyone who let this disgusting abomination into the white house will be looked upon with the same disdain as the KKK.

Sorry, huge giant difference between MLK and, say, harassing a girl for wearing a particular prom dress.

 

[MrWonka]

Sorry, a huge giant difference between MLK and, say, harassing a girl for wearing a particular prom dress.

Ummm... it is right wing republicans who are harassing a girl for wearing a particular prom dress. The left is defending the girl from you.

 

[MrWonka]

SJW is what you end up with when every kid gets a trophy.

People, who have confidence in themselves and are willing to stand up for weak?

 

[MrWonka]

SJW is what you end up with when every kid gets a trophy.

By the way, according to your profile, this forum gave you a trophy for showing up and posting regularly for over a year. Did it hurt you?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

So a handful of people doing stuff that does not affect you in any way have your panties in a bunch? And, surprise, you want to tie them to liberals and democrats...what a shock...That is right up there with tying white nationalists to the republican party...

Uhhhh, no...that's not exactly the way I'd put it.
It's not nearly the way I'd put it in fact.

First, does it affect me? Me? Personally? In a direct manner? No, not really.
Where it affects me is the fact that this "handful" is not a handful, it's a pretty large group, it identifies as "liberal" and therefore it indirectly affects anyone else who identifies as liberal by simple virtue of association.
So it's not ME "tying them to liberals and Democrats".

Second, this might come as a shock to you, but I am not in the exalted position of deciding who or what gets tied to what.
That deed was already done without anyone consulting me, of course.

Third, the reason I put up the poll is because I am sick and tired of these people BEING tied to liberals and Democrats.
They're not good enough to be defined as either, because they clearly have FAILED in the very thing that defines a liberal - OPEN-MINDEDNESS.
Now, being openminded does not mean that one must accept other points of view but it does mean that one should shy away from aggressively censoring that point of view. A liberal must be able to counter those views intellectually, with superior ideas.

One can still draw the line, as even I often do, to the point where an opposing POV represents activities associated with openly organized or state sanctioned genocide, for instance. Thus, a speaker like a Richard Spencer would be censored, and not because of his views but because of the activities he is promoting. That would be no different than barring a representative from ISIS from appearing.
That would be no different than barring the head of a large heroin cartel appearing.

I posted this poll because I am personally sick and tired of having the screeching ultra-radical campus kids "tied to" mainstream liberal thought, and because they do not represent me, and I made an effort to compare notes and find out if anyone else felt the same way.
And I think that is perfectly reasonable, but I am sorry if it offended you.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yes, they are very annoying.

They make liberals look bad because "they're doing it wrong".
That's it, plain and simple!
If you're censoring opposing points of view and saying that you cannot allow someone else to present different ideas, you're a failed liberal.
You should be able to counter those views with superior ideas and better logic.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yes, and no. Some of the tactics used by the fringe left (I don't really like the SJW term, as it's a derogatory term used to dismiss people trying to drive goodness in the world, regardless of how annoyingly they do it) are, well, annoying, to say the least...and some are self defeating, absolutely.

But I guess I'd rather live in a world where people annoyingly try to make it better, than to have no one trying to make it better at all.

If I run into an activist that is a little out there, I will examine their issue as objectively as I can, and decide whether to support them based on the issue, not their methodology. After I decide if their issue is something I can get behind, I will then look at their methodology and decide if I want to participate in their activism. If I can't participate directly with them, because I don't agree with their tack, I can still champion their goals on my own, by being a voice for the issue, without condoning or participating in their methodology.

Of course, if I am not aligned with their issue or message, I'll walk away...or if I'm here, I'll debate them.

So, ya, I guess I'm gonna pick other?

The important thing for me is not to let my annoyance or first impression prevent me from at least hearing them out.

Brilliant thoughts and allow me please to apply YOUR logic to my own personal views on ANTIFA, because I think we're kindred spirits on the way we approach some of this stuff.

I've observed the history of the "antifa" movement in Europe, which is where the term comes from.
They are remarkably different from our "homegrown" brand name "Antifa" people, just as EU and UK Green Party people are different from US Greens.
I am, of course, vehemently opposed to fascism and have no hesitation in fighting them any way possible, however I've discovered that, for the most part, once one aligns with the Antifa movement, one is signing on to an anarchist platform.
I dislike anarchy nearly as much as I dislike fascism, sorry.
Thus, you won't see me jumping on the black clad anarchist Antifa bandwagon, and more than one Antifa right here on DP (see Ikari, for example) have told me quite plainly, "if you're not with us, you're against us".
So now I am fair game for Antifa? Yeah, right.

Case closed, that's annoying as **** and I won't have anything to do with a group that uses that tactic.
I'm NOT "championing their goals", I am championing MY goals. The fact that they happen to be also opposed to fascism is incidental.
The American Communist party (CPUSA) was opposed to the Iraq War, but I had no desire to join "International A.N.S.W.E.R."
(Act Now to Stop War and End Racism)
That is a group sponsored and funded, at least in large part, by Communist Party USA.

This is why many independents and many on the Right like to equate liberal ideas and goals with communism or automatic alliance with extremism. If I am opposed to the Iraq War, must I also align myself with CPUSA in order to do so?