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Anyone else as sick of todays business practices as I am?

Baralis

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Im just feed up with the way businesses operate. Its so hard to find just plain open and honest businesses anymore. Most seem to ride the line with being down right crooks.

Just some examples that really get me fired up:


"Free" this and that! while always having a fine print attachment that tells you that you will be billed or automaticly subscriped to there service or just have to pay shipping and handling (which is 3x what it probably cost). Free to me means they place it in my hand with no strings attached in any way. Not "free for now but you will make it up to us later".

Ridiculous shipping and handling fees. When I was young everyone put on the advertisement what the S&H cost. Now the just say +S&H. I have seen items that only cost $9.99 that had an $12 S&H fee attached. So while it may seem like you are getting a good deal at first glance, in the end your not.

Products that intentionally take advantage of you. Such as personal printers that have data chips inbedded in the ink cartrages that tell the printer to stop printing and read empty altho 50% of the ink is left.

Selling your information to others. The phone companies are a prime example of this. While someone can purchase an unlisted number they will still sell your information to solicitors.

Big boxes, little product. They can sure make it seem appealing with the big flashy packaging only to find 3/4 of it is air. Purchased a large bag of chips lately? The bag is half air! While they claim that settling has occured in shipping, is anyone actually buying that excuse?

Warrenties. So many will do everything that they can not to back up there warrenties. They will blame the consumer for there poor product and give you such a run around that many will stop trying. What happened to standing up for your product?

Customer support. Do I really need to explain? I can say it has been many years since I have contacted customer support on any product and actually talked with someone that had a clue.


I wish businesses would make everything plain, simple, up front, and honest instead of making it look one way followed by small print that is full of "its not as it seems", but hey if you dont take the time to read it all we'll screw ya and its your fault for not paying attention, we are in no way responsible!.

/end rant :2wave:


What are some of the things you would change about the way business is done in todays world?
 
This is a really good thread and couldn't agree any more.

How about this. You pay stupid amounts of money for a silly movie, popcorn and drink, and you have to sit through a barrage of car, computer, and cola ads before the movie starts. That pisses me off to no end.

Also, the same for the ton of advertising that's in your face when going to a professional sporting event. Everything is sponsored, and the stadium/arena/dome is littered with ads for all kinds of crap.
 
I don't see how an informed consumer can't avoid all of these problems quite easily.

"Free" this and that! while always having a fine print attachment that tells you that you will be billed or automaticly subscriped to there service or just have to pay shipping and handling

Try reading the fine print - there usually isn't much. If it sounds too good to be true, use your head. If something is being given away for free, there's probably a reason.

Ridiculous shipping and handling fees. When I was young everyone put on the advertisement what the S&H cost. Now the just say +S&H.

So pay attention to the shipping and handling. I've never heard of anything that didn't tell you the price to ship before you finalized the purchase. Again, be an educated consumer.

Products that intentionally take advantage of you. Such as personal printers that have data chips inbedded in the ink cartrages that tell the printer to stop printing and read empty altho 50% of the ink is left.

So don't use those products. Before you make your purchase, spend 30 seconds on google to find out which ones are good and which ones aren't.

Selling your information to others. The phone companies are a prime example of this. While someone can purchase an unlisted number they will still sell your information to solicitors.

Pay attention to the privacy policies of the companies you do business with. I don't have an unlisted number, but I haven't gotten a telemarketing phone call in years.

Big boxes, little product. They can sure make it seem appealing with the big flashy packaging only to find 3/4 of it is air. Purchased a large bag of chips lately? The bag is half air! While they claim that settling has occured in shipping, is anyone actually buying that excuse?

Bags of chips contain air so that the chips don't get crushed in the package. If they didn't have that air, I'm sure there would be people complaining about how their chips are all crumbs. Again, pay attention to the size of the products you're buying and you don't have to worry about this.

Warrenties. So many will do everything that they can not to back up there warrenties. They will blame the consumer for there poor product and give you such a run around that many will stop trying. What happened to standing up for your product?

Not very specific, but again, do business with reputable companies and you will minimize the risk of this. Also, pay attention to the actual terms of the warranties you're purchasing.

Customer support. Do I really need to explain? I can say it has been many years since I have contacted customer support on any product and actually talked with someone that had a clue.

So don't do business with companies with ****ty customer service. If you're forced to, ask to speak to a supervisor.

How about this. You pay stupid amounts of money for a silly movie, popcorn and drink, and you have to sit through a barrage of car, computer, and cola ads before the movie starts. That pisses me off to no end.

So show up 15 minutes late. Don't buy their insanely overpriced popcorn and soda.

Also, the same for the ton of advertising that's in your face when going to a professional sporting event. Everything is sponsored, and the stadium/arena/dome is littered with ads for all kinds of crap.

If those advertisements aren't there, the money lost will have to be replaced from somewhere. That will most likely be ticket prices. I'd rather pay $20 for a ticket to Citi Field at Shea Stadium than $22 for a ticket to Shea Stadium.

Again, all of the problems being mentioned in this thread can be addressed by being an educated and cautious consumer. I don't think that businesses should have to change their profitable practices because not everyone pays attention.
 
I don't see how an informed consumer can't avoid all of these problems quite easily.

I think you are missing the point. ;)
Why should the consumer always need to research everything and read any fine print at all before making a purchase, particularly from major names. I think it is sad that it has gotten to the point that people feel the way that you do, that the consumer should have to be weary instead of they need to clean up there act (businesses).

It seems that business has gotten worse in the last 30 years about they way they view the consumer. We have gone from, make a good product and back it up and people will come to you. To, lets see how many things we can catch the consumer on and make extra money.
 
Why should the consumer always need to research everything and read any fine print at all before making a purchase, particularly from major names.

Because we live in a complex world where people are expected to have a baseline level of competency. Obviously, there's a sliding scale - if you're buying a hot dog, don't worry about the fine print. But if you're buying a car or taking out a mortgage, you better goddamn well be reading the fine print.

I think it is sad that it has gotten to the point that people feel the way that you do, that the consumer should have to be weary instead of they need to clean up there act (businesses).

And I think it's sad that rather than ask people to pay attention and use their heads before they make important transactions, you would prefer to force companies to adopt less profitable policies in order to accommodate those who can't be bothered to educate themselves. I much prefer a system where the costs of ignorance are imposed on the ignorant, rather than spread to all of us.

It seems that business has gotten worse in the last 30 years about they way they view the consumer. We have gone from, make a good product and back it up and people will come to you. To, lets see how many things we can catch the consumer on and make extra money.

I think you're suffering from "the good ol' days" bias. Companies are no more sleazy nowadays than they were in the past.
 
PT Barnum I do believe said it best... a sucker and his money are soon parted.
 
I think you're suffering from "the good ol' days" bias. Companies are no more sleazy nowadays than they were in the past.

You hit the nail on the head. Snake oil is only an idiom because people used to actually sell snake oil as medicine. It's a bit annoying when I open a bag of chips to find more air than I expected, true. In the past, though, there was an entire industry built around "patent medicines" that were nothing more than whatever toxic crap could be had for cheap with some opium and cocaine mixed in to make the consumer feel better and create the illusion of medical efficacy. Consumers have to be wary to avoid being taken advantage of, but the consumer is positively coddled by the standards of any time in the past.
 
You hit the nail on the head. Snake oil is only an idiom because people used to actually sell snake oil as medicine. It's a bit annoying when I open a bag of chips to find more air than I expected, true. In the past, though, there was an entire industry built around "patent medicines" that were nothing more than whatever toxic crap could be had for cheap with some opium and cocaine mixed in to make the consumer feel better and create the illusion of medical efficacy. Consumers have to be wary to avoid being taken advantage of, but the consumer is positively coddled by the standards of any time in the past.

Fun fact from class discussion today: The federal mail fraud statute was passed in 1872 in order to combat schemes such as where people would offer to sell counterfeit currency at a discounted price through the mail. The purchasers knew that the currency was counterfeit, but thought they were getting a great deal anyways. They sent their money in, and lo and behold, the supposed counterfeiters were actually dishonest tricksters who kept the money and never planned on sending anything back in the first place. In response to the growing popularity of these type of scams (which entrapped people such as President Grant), Congress passed the mail fraud law, in essence, to protect idiots from themselves.

More fun stories:

The nineteenth century was therefore not immune from mail fraud - in fact, some of the more ingenious scams have their origins in that time period. Authorities in England estimated that in the 1830s, some mail fraud operators made upwards of a thousand pounds a year (the average was about two hundred and fifty pounds a year - about ten times what an average honest working man made!) One particularly successful thief, "Blind William" had his own clerks working for him at fifty pounds a year, writing out the letters, and frequently hired messengers and fast carriages to bring his missives directly to the mark. The typical English mail fraud letter was a "sob story" directed at a member of the upper class, who would feel obliged to send 'a little something' to the scammer.

Basically the early Nigerian princes.
 
Don't forget the automated attendant computer voice that answers the phone. Navigate through at least 4 selections until you're placed on hold for a rep that doesn't know what they're talking about. The worst violator of the automated attendant is the phone company. Ironic that they were one of the first to get rid of operators.
 
Where you can, go with companies that have a good word-of-mouth reputation among your friends. This is even better when it is a small business in the local area. This keeps your dollars in the local economy and helps a business that probably has a great work ethic.

Of course, I use mostly national companies for my shopping: Amazon, Apple, Whole Foods, Walmart. I find that insurance really sucks.
 
Another one that gets me, Mail in rebate That you may or may not recieve. Just take it off the price for petes sake! But I truely believe they intent not to pay out a percentage of the rebates either by people failing to mail them in or by lieing and saying that they never recieved it.
 
Another one that gets me, Mail in rebate That you may or may not recieve. Just take it off the price for petes sake! But I truely believe they intent not to pay out a percentage of the rebates either by people failing to mail them in or by lieing and saying that they never recieved it.

That's exactly the point. This isn't some big secret.

Companies know that a significant percentage of people who buy products with mail-in rebates will never fill out the form. They use that information in order to set a price. If they were going to automatically reduce the price, they wouldn't be able to reduce it as much. It's just another way in which the ignorant consumer subsidizes the educated consumer.
 
Im just feed up with the way businesses operate. Its so hard to find just plain open and honest businesses anymore. Most seem to ride the line with being down right crooks.

Just some examples that really get me fired up:


"Free" this and that! while always having a fine print attachment that tells you that you will be billed or automaticly subscriped to there service or just have to pay shipping and handling (which is 3x what it probably cost). Free to me means they place it in my hand with no strings attached in any way. Not "free for now but you will make it up to us later".

Ridiculous shipping and handling fees. When I was young everyone put on the advertisement what the S&H cost. Now the just say +S&H. I have seen items that only cost $9.99 that had an $12 S&H fee attached. So while it may seem like you are getting a good deal at first glance, in the end your not.

Products that intentionally take advantage of you. Such as personal printers that have data chips inbedded in the ink cartrages that tell the printer to stop printing and read empty altho 50% of the ink is left.

Selling your information to others. The phone companies are a prime example of this. While someone can purchase an unlisted number they will still sell your information to solicitors.

Big boxes, little product. They can sure make it seem appealing with the big flashy packaging only to find 3/4 of it is air. Purchased a large bag of chips lately? The bag is half air! While they claim that settling has occured in shipping, is anyone actually buying that excuse?

Warrenties. So many will do everything that they can not to back up there warrenties. They will blame the consumer for there poor product and give you such a run around that many will stop trying. What happened to standing up for your product?

Customer support. Do I really need to explain? I can say it has been many years since I have contacted customer support on any product and actually talked with someone that had a clue.


I wish businesses would make everything plain, simple, up front, and honest instead of making it look one way followed by small print that is full of "its not as it seems", but hey if you dont take the time to read it all we'll screw ya and its your fault for not paying attention, we are in no way responsible!.

/end rant :2wave:


What are some of the things you would change about the way business is done in todays world?

HA! Which one there are so many more than the ones you've named like politicians, corporations, taxpayer dollars and the list goes on.

Example buy American thats made by foreign cheap labor.
 
That's exactly the point. This isn't some big secret.

Companies know that a significant percentage of people who buy products with mail-in rebates will never fill out the form. They use that information in order to set a price. If they were going to automatically reduce the price, they wouldn't be able to reduce it as much. It's just another way in which the ignorant consumer subsidizes the educated consumer.


I think that is the poster's point - it is dishonest and shady in spirit, if not in letter. IA w/ the OP.
 
I think that is the poster's point - it is dishonest and shady in spirit, if not in letter. IA w/ the OP.

How is it dishonest or shady? Every single material fact is disclosed up front. If you're someone who will take the time to send in a mail-in rebate, it can be a good deal. If you're not, then that might not be the product for you.
 
How is it dishonest or shady? Every single material fact is disclosed up front. If you're someone who will take the time to send in a mail-in rebate, it can be a good deal. If you're not, then that might not be the product for you.

In the same manner that cc disclosures are dishonest and shady in spirit. It's supposed to be too time-consuming to understand, or cash in, or whatever.
 
In the same manner that cc disclosures are dishonest and shady in spirit.

I'm always confused when people say this - what on earth is so difficult to understand about credit card terms? Every single credit card can be explained in one paragraph.

If you sign up for a credit card, a company is offering you a line of credit. They can adjust that line of credit as they see fit. The terms of the agreement state that you will be able to borrow from the line of credit for a certain number of days without paying interest, but then after that period, you will pay a daily periodic rate. You are regularly required to make a payment toward your balance, generally every 28 days or month. If you do not make that payment, you will be assessed a late fee and your interest rate may increase to the maximum rate allowable by law. If you do not pay off the balance in full each month, the remaining balance will accumulate interest at the specified rate.

If someone is incapable of understanding these basic terms, they should not be getting a credit card.

It's supposed to be too time-consuming to understand, or cash in, or whatever.

How is it time-consuming or confusing? A mail-in rebate requires you to fill out a short form and mail it somewhere, generally with a copy of the receipt and the UPC code. If someone can't possibly accomplish that difficult and complex task, then they shouldn't count on getting the mail-in rebate.

These are all things that a reasonably diligent 15 year-old could understand. I don't see why we should force businesses to cater to people even dumber than that.
 
I'm always confused when people say this - what on earth is so difficult to understand about credit card terms? Every single credit card can be explained in one paragraph.


Everything. Not the least that it's typed in tiny little letters of legalese covering several pages. Schumer box or no.
 
How is it time-consuming or confusing? A mail-in rebate requires you to fill out a short form and mail it somewhere, generally with a copy of the receipt and the UPC code. If someone can't possibly accomplish that difficult and complex task, then they shouldn't count on getting the mail-in rebate.


It is designed to be time-consuming and/or confusing. Yup, you can figure it out, but they count on the majority of buyers not figuring it out, or taking the time.
 
A big one that gets me - 0% for two years!!

They make it seem pretty and "easy".

Why on earth would someone buy something which they have zero money for and cannot afford only to pay more for it later? That mentality is what screwed our economy. No worries, I know I will not make many friends in this thread as they are ignorant of the process and willing to pay arm and leg for a car, TV or furniture.

A few people actually "pay on time monthly". But it is like playing with fire. Sooner or later you will miss a payment (by your own failure or theirs) and you WILL get burned, then they will get rich off your stupid ass.

If you cannot afford it, don't buy it!
 
Another one that gets me, Mail in rebate That you may or may not recieve. Just take it off the price for petes sake! But I truely believe they intent not to pay out a percentage of the rebates either by people failing to mail them in or by lieing and saying that they never recieved it.

Yes, they hope you forget/fail/find it a pain to mail in.

No, they don't often commit fraud and not pay you.
 
Everything. Not the least that it's typed in tiny little letters of legalese covering several pages. Schumer box or no.

I know that there are pages and pages of tiny print. That print is there because of complicated laws passed by the government trying to force companies to disclose more and more information. Nevertheless, the fact remains that everything that someone needs to know about a credit card can still be summed up in my one paragraph. If you understand that, you understand your credit card. There are no "hidden tricks" beyond that.

It is designed to be time-consuming and/or confusing. Yup, you can figure it out, but they count on the majority of buyers not figuring it out, or taking the time.

How is a mail-in rebate confusing to anyone older than 7? You write your name/address on the form, photocopy the receipt, and clip the UPC. This is not rocket science.
 
Yes, they hope you forget/fail/find it a pain to mail in.

No, they don't often commit fraud and not pay you.


Ill give you me experience with Dell.

I purchased a Dell a number of years ago. In the deal was a cash back incentive. While purchasing the Dell they sent me the "rebate coupon" that directed you to go to Dells web site (URL was listed on the coupon) and the directions to follow would be posted there.

They listed the mailing address on the website to mail in your completed form as well as a copy of your coupon. I followed the directions exactly. About 2 weeks later I went to their site to check on the statues of my rebate. They said they never recieved my paperwork. So I once again followed the directions and resent it. About 9-10 days later I once again checked the website and they still had not recieved my paperwork (remember there was a limited time to send in your paperwork). So I call them, time is getting short, and they tell me that is the wrong address! I tell them that is the one they have listed on the URL that they sent me on my coupon. They claimed to know nothing about that address.

After recieving a new address and mailing it a third time I waited a couple of weeks and checked the status again. I was then told they had recieved it but the time limit had expired and refused to pay. I called them up and explained once again the address they had instructed me to send it to originaly had been the wrong one (which now had been removed from the website) and they played stupid and acted like no address ever existed.

I just wonder how many other hundreds or thousands of people they screwed with this?

Anyway I will never purchase another product from Dell.
 
Don't forget the automated attendant computer voice that answers the phone. Navigate through at least 4 selections until you're placed on hold for a rep that doesn't know what they're talking about. The worst violator of the automated attendant is the phone company. Ironic that they were one of the first to get rid of operators.

This drives me nuts. One thing that really pisses me off is that product sizes keep getting smaller but the price of items do not go down:roll:
 
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