Al-Zahar: Let Hamas fire rockets from West Bank

[Apocalypse]

I think in this instance it is talking about a booklet provided to help pro Israel's win their argument. Going back to your previous post

It is a ridiculous article talking about surreal issues involving conspiracy theories that could compete against the protocols of the elders of zion.

There certainly are rumours that a lot of the people you meet supporting Israel on the net are not ordinarly Israeli's but rather people whose job it is to do this.

And that's exactly what I'm referring to with "waging a demonization campaign". The amount of people who buy into those "rumors" is tremendous, the brainwashing is very efficient.

Of course but we expect that to be presented by them when they are trying to create their case. We then are aware that many people from that country will follow that propaganda and believe it is the case and probably all of us will do this to some extent unless we have the opportunity to properly study it in an open environment.

However it is not usual for people of my country to present propaganda from another country. To come to an informed opinion is completely acceptable regardless of whether that opinion agrees with mine or not. Indeed a person who has come to an informed opinion and states it is very likely to be able to influence others. When instead you get someone repeating phrases almost like slogans they are repeated so often, no this is something different and concerning.

Once more, you're calling it propaganda, but did it occur to you that they're simply using legitimate sources to answer frequently asked questions?
As I said as well, none of that information is actually wrong, people aren't being taught lies, it's like opening a history book.

I think the Palestinian people have. I think the Iranian people have. I think Saudi Arabia has. I don;t see Israel deminised here.

I think that's bollocks.
Israel is the most demonized state in the world. The Iranians aren't being accused with things they've never done in this board as far as I know. The Palestinians aren't even a country, they're a group of people, any attribute attached to them as a whole is hence a generalization and is irrelavent to the discussion. And when was the last time you've seen someone here accusing Saudi Arabian troops of deliberately shooting little children in the streets?

Our problem as far as you were concerned was that we also reported things from a Palestinian perspective.

No, the problem is that you're promoting a false image, whether directly or indirectly, whether knowingly or unknowingly.

We get no information out of Gaza.

Information from Gaza seems to be the only thing that makes the headlines over there in Europe.

Israel has a free line. The rest of Palestine we also get no news from. They are totally inept at using the media. That is why some newspapers and tv stations do their best to provide it for them. That I think is what Israel sees as demonising. It is just presenting both sides.

I believe Israel has more of an issue with the attempt to promote a one sided view, not the attempt to present both sides.

Now you are twisting what I said. I said if it is organised which I believed it may be. My opinion remains the same but as I am not certain this is the case, I can only give my concern that it may be.

That's exactly what I thought you said, which is why I've replied that way.

Of course and as I have said already we all know that happens. We all expect it. Most of us are well aware that what is said may not be the truth so we listen with discrimination.

Where it gets different is when there is a person from our country presenting what are supposed to be his own views but from using this board I could tell were not his own due to them having the same format as people use on this forum.

If he is presenting it as his view then it is his view. Pretty clear to me.
Besides that, once more, the information he has taken (according to you) from some "propaganda bank" doesn't seem to be a false information.

 

[alexa]

It is a ridiculous article talking about surreal issues involving conspiracy theories that could compete against the protocols of the elders of zion.

Ok, in my breaks from what I am doing today, I have managed to do a little research on it. The site I gave you a link to Tikun Olam is apparently a progressive Jewish site working for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. I think it is written by
Richard Silverstein Richard Silverstein | The Seminal. The Report itself was disclosed in Newsweek How to Sell Americans on Israeli Settlements - Newsweek

The full thing can be read here

The Israel Project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary

And that's exactly what I'm referring to with "waging a demonization campaign". The amount of people who buy into those "rumors" is tremendous, the brainwashing is very efficient.

Are you denying that Israel has people working on forums to create the image it wants? If so I am surprised she is missing this opportunity. I know plenty of countries do it on sensitive issues. I was on a forum once where someone admitted his country did but I cannot remember which country he came from.

I have already responded to the rest adequately. We would just go round in circles.

Just one issue

To call the Israeli government's efforts to explain its country's actions, in the present and the past, "an organized propaganda" is ridiculous,

which I said was twisting my words was. What I said was

We were discussing the flotilla so what he said was not really appropriate to the situation. Propaganda leads to brainwashing. Organised propaganda by people who are allegedly speaking their own minds is concerning, if that is the case as I believe it may be.

Now I originally said you were twisting my words but you said you meant exactly what you said. In that case you appear to be saying that the Israeli Government is indeed organising propaganda and that I should rather call it " the Israeli government's efforts to explain its country's actions, in the present and the past"

It was one British man. You appear to be suggesting I should treat him as the Israeli Government. :shock:

 

[Gardener]

This article is ridiculous, and unless you point at the Sun's article I won't be able to even debate about it.
It's not a secret that Israel engages in further explanation than other nations due to the huge demonization campaign waged against it, and yes it does answer frequent questions that you can see floating around forum boards in the internet, but from there to brainwashing there is a long long way.
After all, it's not like the info given is even false, so I don't see where the problem is.

Don't you know -- Six hundred million Arabs with their very own international news agency voicing their point of view is all fine and dandy.

A few million Joos doing so is a CONSPIRACY. Of course, that's what we are always told Joos do, isn't it? All that scheming and conniving, and working in shadowy ways to manipulate the unwary and all.........

 

[Demon of Light]

In neither of them Israel entered with ground troops to the strip if you exclude Beit Hanoon - this is not an effort to enliminate the threat, its just showing off abit of muscles so the people of Sderot won't see the Israeli goverment as the impotent it is.

Did you even read any of the articles?

The Rules of engagement as described in this video (1:28) is pretty accurate only in some areas you cannot open fire at all in the arrest procedure , though from (2:34) its missleading, on many cases you are not allowed to open fire to the center mass, basically as I said before you can only open fire to the center mass if your life is under threat meaning the subject has both a capability and a meaning to hurt you or your comrads - for example someone holding a molotov cocktail may be shot only before he throws the bottle, if he threw the bottle and few friends of yours caught flame but he has nothing in his hands now, you may only shoot his legs inorder to stop him.

Can you name any instance where someone was actually punished under such circumstances? Also, we are not just talking about ground troops, but airstrikes and naval shelling.

Once more, I didn't say Israel has not engaged in operations in the Gaza Strip before December 2008.
I'll repeat myself, Israel has, before December 2008, never engaged in an operation such as Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip.
The operations you've listed do not get near Cast Lead. None of those operations were involving as many bombs and weapons as Cast Lead did, and they're not at the same league with it.
Cast lead was the first real effort against the rockets in the Gaza Strip, that has targeted every and each method the terrorirsts were using to get the rockets and launch them.

This is absurd honestly. You are trying to demonstrate the infinite patience of the saintly Israeli government in contrast to the rest of the world yet when I point out several major operations throughout the past eight years you dismiss them as not being "real efforts" so you can continue pushing your Israeli exceptionalism. The notion that Israel is more restrained than the rest of the world clashes so strongly with reality only deliberate ignorance of the facts can allow you to hold your position.

Do I really need to give a list of incidents far more serious than most or any of those you mention along the conflict lines between India and Pakistan, Armenia and Azerbaijan, and border clashes across the world, none of which despite some being frequent and often deadly have resulted in similar military campaigns?

 

[mbig]

Ok, in my breaks from what I am doing today, I have managed to do a little research on it. The site I gave you a link to Tikun Olam is apparently a progressive Jewish site working for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. I think it is written by Richard Silverstein seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/author/richards1052]Richard Silverstein | The Seminal[/url]. The Report itself was disclosed in Newsweek How to Sell Americans on Israeli Settlements - Newsweek
The full thing can be read here
.scribd.com/doc/17369967/The-Israel-Projects-2009-Global-Language-Dictionary]The Israel Project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary[/url]

Richard Silverstein, a[nother] Leftist Wack Job as you can tell from his Anti-Israel website (all articles linked on left show so), is no authority on anything.
And I see he's kinda called his site, and you've bought it, 'tikkum Olam'. But note that's NOT the link.
This is a Poach job as there is another/several Real Leftist Jewish sites using the moniker. By far most noteable being Tikkun.org run by Michal Lerner, aka 'Rabbi Moonbeam', a Remnant of the 1960's counterculture. (I expect you'll be using it soon now that I've mentioned it)

I debated Silvershtupid on the now defunct CharlieRose msg bd probably 5 years ago.
He was trying to get people to read his Blog by shilling message boards.
He got totally destroyed by even moderately knowledgeabe pro-Israel posters.. which is why he BLOGS.
Have him come over here-- he'd again get his stupid @ss handed to him by any of half a dozen posters.
He's a joke.

You seem to think anyone with $15 and a website is an 'authority' or has an opinion more valuable than someone without one. This illusion/delusion is one of the great tragedies of the internet as it equates, say, a wackjob like Silverstein or Weir to the NY Times in that you can 'Back' you opinion with it.
Of course, this is just as silly as linking a poster Here who didn't bother with a website.

Are you denying that Israel has people working on forums to create the image it wants? If so I am surprised she is missing this opportunity. I know plenty of countries do it on sensitive issues. I was on a forum once where someone admitted his country did but I cannot remember which country he came from.

I saw this so-called Hasbara movment emerge a few years ago.
I Have seen a few total amateur college twerps posting some stuff and thought to myself, "are these the hasbara rookies? LOL".
Because I have yet to see a serious pro-Israel poster on any board I thought was professional enough to have graduated any 'Hasbara' course or is working for one.

"....He had either been reading this board or he got the information packaged in the same way as people have presented it on the board. I did for a minute wonder if he was possibly MBig. However as it was a tv show rather than an article in the sun, I am afraid I cannot give you the link.

As to whether information given is false. Very difficult one to answer. Each side will present it's situation in the way they believe will give them the best chance of receiving approval. Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle. You can take a bit of truth and say something which is not actually true. That is what Marx meant when he said 'ideologies turn reality upside down'..

Everyone on this board presents the Israel case very differently. Your nefarious inferences.. ridiculous.
But I do appreciate that you know professionalism [that defeats you] when you saw it.. again on TV.
Yes, I must be a ringer!... Or Maybe people researching the issue (Beyond Guardian and anti-Semite or Chimpsky Jews) are likely to come up with similar conclusions.
Hmmm.

But I've been doing this for 10 years and my posts are still probably on Yahoo's Israel-Palestine message board.. or at least references to them and my ID/nickname there- rather the acronym for it- 'mbig'.

Of course Gardener's point trumping all your silly accusations by pointing out the Arab cause has al-Jazeera for just one. Far outweighing some dozen pro-Israel posters i have yet to see.

 

[mbig]

Forgot disclaimer:
"The above post was brought to you by Hasbara Inc, a Division of Mossad/ZOG/Zio-media/Perle-Wolfo-Necon/Elders/Illuminati/Masonic co-op and with contributions from GoldmanSachs and other Zionist Bankers who were kind enough to purchase my new Intel Gen 2 SSD." (But don't pay for my coop or summer house.) Note to my handlers: We're going to have to add at least 3 zeros if you want me to continue. Perhaps one of the other hasbaras here will relay that to HQ.

 

[Apocalypse]

This is absurd honestly. You are trying to demonstrate the infinite patience of the saintly Israeli government in contrast to the rest of the world yet when I point out several major operations throughout the past eight years you dismiss them as not being "real efforts" so you can continue pushing your Israeli exceptionalism. The notion that Israel is more restrained than the rest of the world clashes so strongly with reality only deliberate ignorance of the facts can allow you to hold your position.

No that is absurd, you call those operations "major operations" while they were actually very small in their magnitude and their targets were not conclusive. (to destroy the rockets threat)
Yes Israel has shown patience until December 2008 by not entering with its army deep into the Strip and bringing order like any other western country would have done.
As Ido pointed out, in all of the operations you've listed Israeli forces did not get past Beit Hanoun. In the 2008-2009 operation Cast Lead, Israel has nearly covered the entire strip with its forces, and its target was clear - to sabotage the rockets threat to the Israeli citizens of Southern Israel.

Do I really need to give a list of incidents far more serious than most or any of those you mention along the conflict lines between India and Pakistan, Armenia and Azerbaijan, and border clashes across the world, none of which despite some being frequent and often deadly have resulted in similar military campaigns?

You need to give an example of a case where a neighboring land has been launching thousands of rockets at a country's civilians for 8 years, and all that this country did was to occasionally attack rocket launchers from the air or launch small operations that didn't get down to the core of the hostility.

 

[ido_]

Can you name any instance where someone was actually punished under such circumstances? Also, we are not just talking about ground troops, but airstrikes and naval shelling.

This one is not punished yet but a trail will soon be opened

Soldier to be indicted for Gaza deaths - Israel News, Ynetnews

theres also these from 2008 which I can't find in english:

2

google translate: Google

äåøùò áäøéâä ùåèø îâ"á ùéøä áôìùúéðàé áéôå - äàøõ

google translate: Google

Also 2 Artillery officers faced court marshel found guilty for firing not according to the safty protocol in Cast Lead last year, I couldn't find the article though.

 

[donsutherland1]

You need to give an example of a case where a neighboring land has been launching thousands of rockets at a country's civilians for 8 years, and all that this country did was to occasionally attack rocket launchers from the air or launch small operations that didn't get down to the core of the hostility.

I don't believe there is any nation in the world that has shown the restraint Israel did or would have exercised the restraint Israel did when it was under a constant barrage of rockets. For those who are interested, the figures for rockets fired into Israel from the Gaza Strip in recent years are:

2008 ~3,200
2009 708
2010 160 (to date)

Source: Bloomberg.com

 

[Apocalypse]

I don't believe there is any nation in the world that has shown the restraint Israel did or would have exercised the restraint Israel did when it was under a constant barrage of rockets. For those who are interested, the figures for rockets fired into Israel from the Gaza Strip in recent years are:

2008 ~3,200
2009 708
2010 160 (to date)

Source: Bloomberg.com

Notice the fall in the amount of launched rockets from 2008 to 2010.
That is entirely the achievement of the Cast Lead operation.

 

[donsutherland1]

Notice the fall in the amount of launched rockets from 2008 to 2010.
That is entirely the achievement of the Cast Lead operation.

I strongly agree. Had Israel not launched Operation Cast Lead, I suspect that the rocket barrage would have continued at the extreme levels of 2008. Hamas had shown no inclination to stop its indiscriminate and inexcusable rocket attacks.

 

[alexa]

Richard Silverstein, a[nother] Leftist Wack Job as you can tell from his Anti-Israel website (all articles linked on left show so), is no authority on anything.
And I see he's kinda called his site, and you've bought it, 'tikkum Olam'. But note that's NOT the link.
This is a Poach job as there is another/several Real Leftist Jewish sites using the moniker. By far most noteable being Tikkun.org run by Michal Lerner, aka 'Rabbi Moonbeam', a Remnant of the 1960's counterculture. (I expect you'll be using it soon now that I've mentioned it)

I debated Silvershtupid on the now defunct CharlieRose msg bd probably 5 years ago.
He was trying to get people to read his Blog by shilling message boards.
He got totally destroyed by even moderately knowledgeabe pro-Israel posters.. which is why he BLOGS.
Have him come over here-- he'd again get his stupid @ss handed to him by any of half a dozen posters.
He's a joke.

You seem to think anyone with $15 and a website is an 'authority' or has an opinion more valuable than someone without one. This illusion/delusion is one of the great tragedies of the internet as it equates, say, a wackjob like Silverstein or Weir to the NY Times in that you can 'Back' you opinion with it.
Of course, this is just as silly as linking a poster Here who didn't bother with a website.


I saw this so-called Hasbara movment emerge a few years ago.
I Have seen a few total amateur college twerps posting some stuff and thought to myself, "are these the hasbara rookies? LOL".
Because I have yet to see a serious pro-Israel poster on any board I thought was professional enough to have graduated any 'Hasbara' course or is working for one.


Everyone on this board presents the Israel case very differently. Your nefarious inferences.. ridiculous.
But I do appreciate that you know professionalism [that defeats you] when you saw it.. again on TV.
Yes, I must be a ringer!... Or Maybe people researching the issue (Beyond Guardian and anti-Semite or Chimpsky Jews) are likely to come up with similar conclusions.
Hmmm.

But I've been doing this for 10 years and my posts are still probably on Yahoo's Israel-Palestine message board.. or at least references to them and my ID/nickname there- rather the acronym for it- 'mbig'.

This post is completely because Newsweek is the real source which I clearly stated.

 

[mbig]

This post is completely because Newsweek is the real source which I clearly stated.

Which is a Ridiculous assertion even tho you left out something like 'irrelevant/untrue' you meant to include.

Richard Silverstein quoted ALONE and then discussed with further posts

No Apocalypse, it is something different and something I find very worrying. It is very easy to know when someone is talking from their own investigation and understanding. What the man from the Sun said and the way he said it, was not his own, did not belong to him. As such it is not honest debate but nearer an attempt at brainwashing.

Here is a link concerning the instructions. tp://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/07/10/the-israel-projects-secret-hasbara-handbook-exposed/]The Israel Project’s Secret Hasbara Handbook Exposed | Tikun Olam-[/url]

Then.... Richard Silverstein And Newsweek

Ok, in my breaks from what I am doing today, I have managed to do a little research on it. The site I gave you a link to Tikun Olam is apparently a progressive Jewish site working for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. I think it is written by Richard Silverstein ttp://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/author/richards1052]Richard Silverstein | The Seminal[/url].
The Report itself was disclosed in Newsweek httww.newsweek.com/2009/07/09/chosen-words.html]How to Sell Americans on Israeli Settlements - Newsweek[/url]
The full thing can be read here
[urww.scribd.com/doc/17369967/The-Israel-Projects-2009-Global-Language-Dictionary]The Israel Project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary[/url]

So you are lying about your use of Silverstein.. AND that would not make my whole post irrelevant or inaccurate even if true... as it contains more in answer to your assertions and innuendo about Hasbara as well. (last 3 paragraphs)

 

[Demon of Light]

No that is absurd, you call those operations "major operations" while they were actually very small in their magnitude and their targets were not conclusive. (to destroy the rockets threat)
Yes Israel has shown patience until December 2008 by not entering with its army deep into the Strip and bringing order like any other western country would have done.
As Ido pointed out, in all of the operations you've listed Israeli forces did not get past Beit Hanoun. In the 2008-2009 operation Cast Lead, Israel has nearly covered the entire strip with its forces, and its target was clear - to sabotage the rockets threat to the Israeli citizens of Southern Israel.

It's obvious you believe whatever you want to believe in spite of reality so I am not sure there is much more I can say. There are no countries I can think of that have launched a full-scale war in response to a similar threat and usually conduct operations like those of Israel only after considerable time. Turkey has troops and civilians regularly killed by PKK militants who have shelters and support in Northern Iraq yet even their most penetrating operation was meager in comparison to the Gaza War.

You need to give an example of a case where a neighboring land has been launching thousands of rockets at a country's civilians for 8 years, and all that this country did was to occasionally attack rocket launchers from the air or launch small operations that didn't get down to the core of the hostility.

That is an absurd demand because you are unlikely to find a situation that is exactly the same no matter what we're talking about. What I know is that there are many areas in the world where people are killed frequently in clashes without it escalating into a full-scale war.

This one is not punished yet but a trail will soon be opened.

I said "under such circumstances" not at all. Meaning, a case like the one you mentioned.

I don't believe there is any nation in the world that has shown the restraint Israel did or would have exercised the restraint Israel did when it was under a constant barrage of rockets.

If you don't believe it you are either ignorant of anything which goes against that belief or simply choose not acknowledge it. Any objective and rational individual can see this Israeli exceptionalism is baseless and absurd on its face.

 

[Apocalypse]

It's obvious you believe whatever you want to believe in spite of reality so I am not sure there is much more I can say.

You can take me as an example, I'm arguing against you here, a person who believes what he wants to believe in spite of reality, and yet I am able to neglect your arguments as fictional, bizarre and torn-off as they are.

There are no countries I can think of that have launched a full-scale war in response to a similar threat and usually conduct operations like those of Israel only after considerable time. Turkey has troops and civilians regularly killed by PKK militants who have shelters and support in Northern Iraq yet even their most penetrating operation was meager in comparison to the Gaza War.

That's bull.
Every country that would have thousands of rockets launched at its citizens, not soldiers, citizens, would react with way more force and with way less patience than Israel did with Gaza.
We're speaking here about 8 years, 8 years of living in fear when rockets are being laucnhed from a close location, 8 years of alarms that are being raised every few minutes. That's not a way to live, and the biggest obligation a country has is to the obligation to the safety of its citizens.
The amount of times when the PKK has attacked Turkish civilians and the amount of times when Hamas has attacked Israeli civilians are incomparable. We're speaking here about a difference in the thousands.
Besides that, Turkey has killed hundreds of Kurdish rebels just in the recent few years, so you clearly have no case here.

That is an absurd demand because you are unlikely to find a situation that is exactly the same no matter what we're talking about.

I didn't say exactly the same, something resembling would suffice.
You will find none, because no country would have shown the same restraint Israel has in that situation.

 

[donsutherland1]

If you don't believe it you are either ignorant of anything which goes against that belief or simply choose not acknowledge it. Any objective and rational individual can see this Israeli exceptionalism is baseless and absurd on its face.

Although I have been wrong on occasions and, when that has happened acknowledged my error, I am quite confident that one cannot find a single example of a single nation over at least the last 75 years that refrained from a military operation when its cities and civilians were subjected to indiscriminate bombardment by 1,000 or more rockets, missiles, or bombs over the course of a year or less. No leader of any sovereign state could neglect his/her most basic responsibility to safeguard the lives and wellbeing of his/her citizens. Israel, like any other sovereign state, acted in self-defense.

As you argue that I choose "not to acknowledge it," I am asking you to provide me with a documented example where a sovereign state refrained from using military force under just such circumstances during the timeframe of Israel's existence 1948-present.

 

[Shayah]

Although I have been wrong on occasions and, when that has happened acknowledged my error, I am quite confident that one cannot find a single example of a single nation over at least the last 75 years that refrained from a military operation when its cities and civilians were subjected to indiscriminate bombardment by 1,000 or more rockets, missiles, or bombs over the course of a year or less. No leader of any sovereign state could neglect his/her most basic responsibility to safeguard the lives and wellbeing of his/her citizens. Israel, like any other sovereign state, acted in self-defense.

As you argue that I choose "not to acknowledge it," I am asking you to provide me with a documented example where a sovereign state refrained from using military force under just such circumstances during the timeframe of Israel's existence 1948-present.

You're not in error Don. I also can recall no similar restraint by any nation. The total absence of any similar precedent is indicative of an extremely volatile situation that is not tolerated by any nation anywhere in the world.

 

[Demon of Light]

Instead of focusing on the misleading figure about thousands of rockets consider the actual result. How many people have been killed as a result of said attacks? Operation Sun, the Turkish incursion into northern Iraq was not even close to the level of Cast Lead and that was only implemented several months after some 40 soldiers were killed in one month during clashes with the PKK. What would Israel do if within a month 40 of its soldiers were killed?

In a sense we don't even have to ask as a similarly painful attack was launched by Hezbollah and immediately sparked off the 2006 Lebanon War, which was far more serious than Operation Sun by many degrees. Operation Cast Lead was launched without even that kind of trigger and was in several ways more intensive. Do I need to inform you of the frequent deaths among Turkish soldiers in the past few months and how the reaction of Turkey has primarily been an aistrike here and there with maybe a few hundred troops briefly crossing the border for a day or so?

How about what would happen if Israeli sailors were snatched and detained by Syria, Lebanon, or Hezbollah? If Iran had boarded an Israeli aid ship and killed half a dozen Israeli citizens how much restraint would there be from Israel? Does anyone think Israel would talk about sanctions if Hezbollah sunk an Israeli ship killing dozens of sailors?

 

[Gardener]

Instead of focusing on the misleading figure about thousands of rockets consider the actual result. How many people have been killed as a result of said attacks? Operation Sun, the Turkish incursion into northern Iraq was not even close to the level of Cast Lead and that was only implemented several months after some 40 soldiers were killed in one month during clashes with the PKK. What would Israel do if within a month 40 of its soldiers were killed?

In a sense we don't even have to ask as a similarly painful attack was launched by Hezbollah and immediately sparked off the 2006 Lebanon War, which was far more serious than Operation Sun by many degrees. Operation Cast Lead was launched without even that kind of trigger and was in several ways more intensive. Do I need to inform you of the frequent deaths among Turkish soldiers in the past few months and how the reaction of Turkey has primarily been an aistrike here and there with maybe a few hundred troops briefly crossing the border for a day or so?

How about what would happen if Israeli sailors were snatched and detained by Syria, Lebanon, or Hezbollah? If Iran had boarded an Israeli aid ship and killed half a dozen Israeli citizens how much restraint would there be from Israel? Does anyone think Israel would talk about sanctions if Hezbollah sunk an Israeli ship killing dozens of sailors?

You could have just said "No, I can't provide you diddly squat".

 

[donsutherland1]

Instead of focusing on the misleading figure about thousands of rockets consider the actual result. How many people have been killed as a result of said attacks?

A nation is not barred from acting in self-defense until a certain threshold in casualties has been inflicted on its people. There is no provision under international law nor customary principle toward that effect. Instead, it is widely understood that a nation has an inherent right of self-defense when it comes under attack. The indiscriminate bombardment of Israel constituted an attack under which Israel, like every other sovereign state, had a right to act in self-defense.

 

[Demon of Light]

A nation is not barred from acting in self-defense until a certain threshold in casualties has been inflicted on its people. There is no provision under international law nor customary principle toward that effect. Instead, it is widely understood that a nation has an inherent right of self-defense when it comes under attack. The indiscriminate bombardment of Israel constituted an attack under which Israel, like every other sovereign state, had a right to act in self-defense.

Never said they didn't have a right to attack and this was never about whether they had such a right. Rather, you and several others have insisted that Israel is better than all other countries and tolerates things no other country would tolerate. I have already referred to countless incidents where countries have shown more restraint than Israel would or has under similar circumstances.

 

[ido_]

I have already referred to countless incidents where countries have shown more restraint than Israel would or has under similar circumstances.

No you haven't, you were asked to do so and didn't supply any example, only shook the request off.

 

[Demon of Light]

No you haven't, you were asked to do so and didn't supply any example, only shook the request off.

I don't really care what you say because anyone without blinders on can see that I did demonstrate clearly how there are many countries that show greater restraint than Israel.

 

[Shayah]

I don't really care what you say because anyone without blinders on can see that I did demonstrate clearly how there are many countries that show greater restraint than Israel.

I didn't see any examples from you either. Bullet them in a post.

 

[Demon of Light]

I didn't see any examples from you either. Bullet them in a post.

I don't think you're unintelligent so surely you saw the post I made right after your last post on this page, read it, and understood it. I have no intention of giving you any more than that.