• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Al-Zahar: Let Hamas fire rockets from West Bank

ferrugem

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Messages
70
Reaction score
40
Location
Ramat gan, Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Al-Zahar: Let Hamas fire rockets from West Bank - Israel News, Ynetnews

Hamas official urges Fatah leaders to order security apparatus to allow 'resistance' groups to attack Israel from West Bank in order to 'liberate Jerusalem'
On the day that President Shimon Peres urged Hamas to abandon terror, to free Gaza from the blockade and put an end to the need for flotillas, it seems now more than ever, these calls fall on deaf ears.
Well, the world still thinks that there is a reasonable, peacfull side on the Hamas' side.
I fear of the Israeli reaction after the moment rockets will fall on the western side of Jerusalem, the capital city of a nation.
 

donsutherland1

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
11,792
Reaction score
10,129
Location
New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
This development is no surprise (probably not even to the Turkish government that recently made the absurd claim that Hamas is not a terrorist organization). Al-Zahar is merely reaffirming a key principle from Hamas' charter which, among other things declares, "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion."

Finally, even as it is over hasty to condemn Israel time and again, the UN will almost certainly not issue any Presidential statements or resolutions to condemn the Hamas terrorist organization.
 
Last edited:

Demon of Light

Bohemian Revolutionary
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1,544
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
This development is no surprise (probably not even to the Turkish government that recently made the absurd claim that Hamas is not a terrorist organization). Al-Zahar is merely reaffirming a key principle from Hamas' charter which, among other things declares, "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion."

Finally, even as it is over hasty to condemn Israel time and again, the UN will almost certainly not issue any Presidential statements or resolutions to condemn the Hamas terrorist organization.
Actually Hamas has looked to Hezbollah as an example and moved away from terrorist activities to focus on more conventional military activities. So to say Hamas is not a terrorist organization is a rather reasonable claim at this moment.
 

Gardener

free market communist
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
26,661
Reaction score
15,927
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
So to say Hamas is not a terrorist organization is a rather reasonable claim at this moment.
It is only reasonable from the limited perspective of those who support them but are trying to pretend they are somehow not supporting terrorism.
 

Southern Man

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
2,219
Reaction score
296
Location
The Beautiful Yadkin Valley
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
The Brits have used techniques to capture nit-wits who point lasers at aircraft. The same could be used to capture these terrorists.
 

Demon of Light

Bohemian Revolutionary
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1,544
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It is only reasonable from the limited perspective of those who support them but are trying to pretend they are somehow not supporting terrorism.
I do not support indiscriminate or targeted attacks on civilians regardless of whether I think they meet the definition of terrorism. However, Israel and its supporters have consistently abused the term and butchered its definition to justify every little thing Israel does no matter how horrendous.
 

ido_

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
3,406
Reaction score
1,561
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I do not support indiscriminate or targeted attacks on civilians regardless of whether I think they meet the definition of terrorism. However, Israel and its supporters have consistently abused the term and butchered its definition to justify every little thing Israel does no matter how horrendous.
Do you consider the murder of an israeli policeman last week in an ambush by Fatah activist as an act of terror?
 

MKULTRABOY

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
10,621
Reaction score
2,104
Location
In your dreams...
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Was it towards the ends of accomplishing greater political goals or was there some sort of altercation?
 

joergan

Banned
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
241
Reaction score
82
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Actually Hamas has looked to Hezbollah as an example and moved away from terrorist activities to focus on more conventional military activities. So to say Hamas is not a terrorist organization is a rather reasonable claim at this moment.
If you count indiscriminately firing rockets at people's homes, then yeah they are doing a good job imitating hezbollah. But to the point, how do you reconcile this individual's call to conduct War Crimes with your claim that they are seeking a more moderate path?
 

Demon of Light

Bohemian Revolutionary
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1,544
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Do you consider the murder of an israeli policeman last week in an ambush by Fatah activist as an act of terror?
I am not familiar with it, but it certainly doesn't sound like terrorism to me.

If you count indiscriminately firing rockets at people's homes, then yeah they are doing a good job imitating hezbollah. But to the point, how do you reconcile this individual's call to conduct War Crimes with your claim that they are seeking a more moderate path?
It is a more moderate path than terrorism.
 

donsutherland1

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
11,792
Reaction score
10,129
Location
New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
But to the point, how do you reconcile this individual's call to conduct War Crimes with your claim that they are seeking a more moderate path?

It is a more moderate path than terrorism.
The news article at the beginning of this thread stated, in part:

In an interview to Palestinian paper al-Quds, al-Zahar said the Gaza Strip has been liberated, "and the PA's security apparatus should free our hands. In order to liberate Jerusalem and the West Bank, rockets must be fired from the West Bank. Why should this fire come only from the Strip?"

In other words, al-Zahar was calling for Hamas' being permitted to launch terrorist attacks from the West Bank. Terrorism initiated from the West Bank is not a "more moderate path" than terrorism that originates in the Gaza Strip. It is still terrorism and there is little doubt that al-Zahar was calling for the firing of rockets from the West Bank. There is nothing "moderate" at all in his request.
 

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent

joergan

Banned
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
241
Reaction score
82
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It is a more moderate path than terrorism.
Firing rockets into civilian homes? What is that more moderate than? Walking into them with a suicide belt on? Firing mortar shells instead of rockets? Tell me when you wish to raise the level of discourse here to rational...
 

bub

R.I.P. Léo
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
9,649
Reaction score
2,173
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent

joergan

Banned
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
241
Reaction score
82
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The news article at the beginning of this thread stated, in part:

In an interview to Palestinian paper al-Quds, al-Zahar said the Gaza Strip has been liberated, "and the PA's security apparatus should free our hands. In order to liberate Jerusalem and the West Bank, rockets must be fired from the West Bank. Why should this fire come only from the Strip?"

In other words, al-Zahar was calling for Hamas' being permitted to launch terrorist attacks from the West Bank. Terrorism initiated from the West Bank is not a "more moderate path" than terrorism that originates in the Gaza Strip. It is still terrorism and there is little doubt that al-Zahar was calling for the firing of rockets from the West Bank. There is nothing "moderate" at all in his request.
I'd like to see israel conduct some targeting killings which they haven't done in too long. This animal's head should join yassin's on the mantle.
 

joergan

Banned
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
241
Reaction score
82
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
And you wonder why people launch rockets at Israel...
I do wonder, and why shouldn't I? Or is firing rockets the next leftist/islamic fascist method of diplomacy to be excused away now that suicide bombings have gone out of fashion?
 

ido_

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
3,406
Reaction score
1,561
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I am not familiar with it, but it certainly doesn't sound like terrorism to me.
Sure you haven't, cuz the world press only tells you when Israel is the "aggressor", I bet you haven't heard about rockets falling on Sderot the past two weeks. Thats how Israel is loosing the PR battle to the Palestinians, we sit quietly until we had enough and then blow up and the world doesn't understand why, after we blow up we start trying to explain but its too late because horror pictures floods Al-Jazirah.

Abu Mazen took the incident with Eli Yishay and built up a whole scene out of this as a reason to back out of the talks, how come Bibi didn't use this attack to do the same, think about it.
 
Last edited:

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,755
Reaction score
6,217
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Correction: the capitcal city of TWO nations.
Second correction: The capital of one nation, the self-designated capital of another.
 

Degreez

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,216
Reaction score
1,021
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Second correction: The capital of one nation, the self-designated capital of another.
3rd correction: The capital of one nation that is not formally recognized as such by any sovereign country in the world.

Nice try though.
 

Demon of Light

Bohemian Revolutionary
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1,544
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The news article at the beginning of this thread stated, in part:

In an interview to Palestinian paper al-Quds, al-Zahar said the Gaza Strip has been liberated, "and the PA's security apparatus should free our hands. In order to liberate Jerusalem and the West Bank, rockets must be fired from the West Bank. Why should this fire come only from the Strip?"

In other words, al-Zahar was calling for Hamas' being permitted to launch terrorist attacks from the West Bank. Terrorism initiated from the West Bank is not a "more moderate path" than terrorism that originates in the Gaza Strip. It is still terrorism and there is little doubt that al-Zahar was calling for the firing of rockets from the West Bank. There is nothing "moderate" at all in his request.
They are talking about firing rockets and nothing more. Unless you are going to start calling Israeli bombing raids terrorist attacks then they are not talking at all about terrorism. Hamas attacks without regard for the lives of Israeli civilians and Israel attacks without regard for the lives of Palestinian civilians. I fail to see a substantive difference other than Israel having more accurate weapons. Israel wants to pursue a policy of total war, yet condemns its opponents responding in kind as terrorists.

Sure you haven't, cuz the world press only tells you when Israel is the "aggressor"
Just as I don't think Jews are conspiring against the world I do not think the world is conspiring against the Jews. Israel should drop the victimization complex.

I bet you haven't heard about rockets falling on Sderot the past two weeks.
No, but I didn't hear about the Israeli retaliation either. Did you hear about the Azeri and Armenian soldiers who were killed in a clash recently? Do you know how many Somalis have been killed in battles over the last week?

Thats how Israel is loosing the PR battle to the Palestinians, we sit quietly until we had enough and then blow up and the world doesn't understand why, after we blow up we start trying to explain but its too late because horror pictures floods Al-Jazirah.
Israel has only recently tried pursuing a policy of sitting quietly, but it is still a notoriously fidgety country.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,755
Reaction score
6,217
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
3rd correction: The capital of one nation that is not formally recognized as such by any sovereign country in the world.

Nice try though.
Fourth and last correction: Jerusalem is recognized as Israel's capital by the world. East Jerusalem's status is the one that is disputed, not West Jerusalem's. Hence Jerusalem is only the capital of one nation.

Can't say that was a nice try from you, it was kinda ridiculous and weak.
 

ido_

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
3,406
Reaction score
1,561
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Just as I don't think Jews are conspiring against the world I do not think the world is conspiring against the Jews. Israel should drop the victimization complex.
I don't think its conspiration, I think its a failure of our Foreign Ministry, while the Palestinians making a big issue out of every small event, Israel does nothing to win the world's public opinion so we absorb many rocket fire and terror attacks until we are saturated, we explode and the world can't see why.

No, but I didn't hear about the Israeli retaliation either
I don't think there were any, there were a few rocket launching squads who were shot before they managed to launch though...

Did you hear about the Azeri and Armenian soldiers who were killed in a clash recently? Do you know how many Somalis have been killed in battles over the last week?
I heard about the Azeri and Armenian conflict first time in this week in this forum, I did hear however about a conflict in Uzbekistan in the Israeli media this week

Israel has only recently tried pursuing a policy of sitting quietly, but it is still a notoriously fidgety country.
NO, Israel never showed itself as a victim of the Palestinian terror out of a stupid idea that it will make us look weak in the eyes of the Arabs, instead of making a big deal out of every rocket falling on Sderot for the past 9 years globaly and demand international pressure on Egypt to work harder to prevent the smuggling into Gaza, Israel set still, took it's time. If the opposite happens and a Palestinian gets shot in the foot by an asshole in the IDF the Palestinians imidiatly leverage it to show the world press how evil the IDF soldiers\war criminals are. BTW I don't know how many US soldiers were trailed for illegal killing of civilians in Afganistan or Iraq, I don't know how many Russian soldiers were trailed for illegal killing in Georgia, I don't see that the world gives a damn about what happened over there as much as it does with every tiny incident that happens here (UN security consul meeting to condem, UN investigations of the conflict etc...). I do know IDF soldiers and policemen from the Border guard were trailed for illegal killing in Israel.
 

Degreez

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,216
Reaction score
1,021
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Fourth and last correction: Jerusalem is recognized as Israel's capital by the world. East Jerusalem's status is the one that is disputed, not West Jerusalem's. Hence Jerusalem is only the capital of one nation.

Can't say that was a nice try from you, it was kinda ridiculous and weak.
That is why the Security Council has passed over five resolutions concerning Jerusalem and Israel's 'Basic Law' as null and void.

Positions on Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not even your best ally agrees with you:
The United States views as desirable the establishing of an international regime for the city.[27] Its final status must be resolved through negotiations[28] and it does not recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital.[29]
Or the administrators of the land prior to Israel's occupation of Jerusalem:
According to the United Kingdom, Jerusalem was supposed to be a corpus separatum, or international city administered by the UN.[35] This was never set up: immediately after the UNGA resolution partitioning Palestine, Israel occupied West Jerusalem.[35] Jordan occupied East Jerusalem (including the Old City).[35] The UK recognised the de facto control of Israel and Jordan, but not sovereignty.[35] In 1967, Israel captured East Jerusalem, which the UK considers a military occupation and regards Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem as illegal, under the terms of the Fourth Geneva Convention.[35][36] The UK Embassy to Israel is in Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem.[35] In East Jerusalem there is a Consulate-General, with a Consul-General who is not accredited to any state: this is an expression of the view that no state has sovereignty over Jerusalem.
How about some other countries?
Canada
"Canada considers the status of Jerusalem can be resolved only as part of a general settlement of the Palestinian-Israeli dispute. Canada does not recognize Israel's unilateral annexation of East Jerusalem." [37] In the fact sheet on Israel displayed on the Canadian Foreign Ministry's website, the indication of "Capital" is left blank. [38]
Finland
"Israel considers Jerusalem to be it's capital city. The international community has not recognized this. The Finnish embassy is in Tel Aviv."[40]
Sweden
"Sweden, like other states, does not recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital, which is why the embassy is in Tel Aviv."
I can keep going, if you'd like.

Here's some more information... you obviously need it:
Subsequent to UNSC resolution 478, 13 countries (Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, the Netherlands, Panama, Uruguay and Venezuela) which had maintained their embassies in Jerusalem, moved their embassies to Tel Aviv. Costa Rica and El Salvador moved theirs back to Jerusalem in 1984. Costa Rica moved its embassy back to Tel Aviv in 2006 followed by El Salvador a few weeks later.[48][49] No international embassy remains in Jerusalem, although Paraguay and Bolivia have theirs in Mevasseret Zion, a suburb 10 km west of the city.[50]
So you state that "Jerusalem is recognized as Israel's capital by the world", yet not one country maintains an embassy in Jerusalem. Hilarious. Even the US maintains its embassy in Tel Aviv, while having a Consulate General office in Jerusalem like the Britain.
 
Top Bottom