On the contrary, Ynet always gives the impression that a civilian was killed from the headlines, you have to read the paper to understand it was actually a terrorist\militant.
Maybe, but once that was found out, you would surely be more likely to imagine every time you saw the words 'Palestinian', militant/terrorist. It does not make any sense not to clarify who they are. It is as bad as outwardly calling them all terrorists. In this way although you have said all deaths are reported in YNET, even if that were so, you would have no idea how many were civilians and how many were militants/terrorists.
I would by reading the article.
Yeah -- , like the folks who only saw 6 million of their family members fed to the gas chambers haven't suffered. :roll:
Whats despicable is that you value the lives of Palestinians more than you value the lives of Israelies, its despicable that you neglect 8 years of suffering to which Israel's reaction almost didn't exist, many Israelies died by the hands of Hamas during the past 20 years, hundreds but hey it doesn't count, they didn't die in the week prior to Cast Lead.
What makes the middle east conflict more relevant to the average english, french or spanish folks than the conflict in Caucasus?
Take my words out of context and do as you please with them if it makes you feel better about yourself.
I would like to see the world treats Israel in the same standards it treats every other nation which is in a state of war, no matter what they excpect from us. We are still WAY better then the rest and being cirtisized for our actions like no one else in the world, besides north Korea perhaps.
Indiscrimately targeting cities, towns, and villages with rocket fire is an unlawful use of force, Hezbollah and Hamas are subnational actors, thus their unlawful use of force is an act of terrorism in addition to a war crime.
Trust me here. A Swiss mindset would never survive in the brutal Middle East.Israel is not in any way held to a higher standard than that of other developed democratic nations. More is expected from a country like Israel than a country like Russia. Just like more is expected from the U.S. than Russia. To put in simply Israel is supposed to be better than Russia.
The ratio between Palestinian losses and Israeli losses is 1 to 4, and that includes soldiers from the Israeli side and terrorists\militants from the Palestinian side, clearly you are exagurating. The reason for the war is the fact that civilians could not sustain normal life in Sderot, the Gazans had about a week and a half of warnings from the Israeli goverment before the attack was launched, hell they even fired mortars at Erez crossing at the same moment Israel allowed tons of cargo to enter the strip a day before the attack.Palestinians have died in the thousands at the hands of Israel and that's just an estimate over the last decade. The notion that Israel's reaction "almost didn't exist" is absurd revisionism. Also, it does matter that none died in the months prior to the Gaza War because hundreds of innocent Palestinians died in that war.
I see you have no reasons, so it must be hypocrasy.I could give a lot of reasons, but I am sure you can think of some yourself without my help.
Out of context? It is what you said and the context was clear to me:
Do not try and cover up your insulting comments.
Trust me here. A Swiss mindset would never survive in the brutal Middle East.
The ratio between Palestinian losses and Israeli losses is 1 to 4, and that includes soldiers from the Israeli side and terrorists\militants from the Palestinian side, clearly you are exagurating.
The reason for the war is the fact that civilians could not sustain normal life in Sderot, the Gazans had about a week and a half of warnings from the Israeli goverment before the attack was launched, hell they even fired mortars at Erez crossing at the same moment Israel allowed tons of cargo to enter the strip a day before the attack.
I see you have no reasons, so it must be hypocrasy.
I stick to my position, its out of context, read the thread from the top and find out who "the rest" are.
You know, I've already explained to you why it is not terrorism, but obviously you don't care to listen.
Are you seriously saying Israel has suffered four times as many losses as the Palestinians!?
The reason for the war is that Israel showed no interest in honoring it in the first place. Around November Israel conducted a serious violation of the truce and that is what sparked renewed rocket attacks.
Really? Is there some sort of agreed playbook for you people that says, "Demand someone provide something any idiot can find on their own, and should rightfully already know, and when your opponent is so annoyed by your ridiculous demand that he or she refuses to do so claim they have nothing"? Do I really have to explain to you why people in the West feel events in the Middle East are more relevant to them than those in the Caucasus?
It is not out of context, you just got caught saying something extremely offensive and representative of an apparent belief that Israel is simply superior and should be recognized as such by the rest of the world so you are trying to take it back. What you said is what you said and it is clear to anyone reading that you were not limiting your statement of Israeli superiority to Russia.
I'm saying its 4 palestinians to 1 israeli and that in this count it includes armed personal and not only civilians on both sides.
What truce are you talking about?
Yes you do because I can't see how it is relevant to the average person in the west.
Whatever you say, I'm sorry I offended you but you really have to work on your reading comprehansion inorder for me not to offend you again.
I oft see this piece of fallacious reasoning.We are talking about Israel's suffering relative to the Palestinians. The Holocaust is no excuse.
Palestinians have died in the thousands at the hands of Israel and that's just an estimate over the last decade. The notion that Israel's reaction "almost didn't exist" is absurd revisionism. Also, it does matter that none died in the months prior to the Gaza War because hundreds of innocent Palestinians died in that war....
There is a postmodern amorality afloat — the dividend of years of an American educational system in which historical ignorance, cultural relativism, and well-intentioned theory, in place of cold facts, has reigned. We see the sad results everywhere in the current discussions of the Middle East and our own war on terror.
Palestinians appeal to the American public on grounds that three or four times as many of their own citizens have died as Israelis. The crazy logic is that in war the side that suffers the most casualties is either in the right or at least should be the winner.
Some Americans nursed on the popular ideology of equivalence find this attractive. But if so, they should then sympathize with Hitler, Tojo, Kim Il Sung, and Ho Chi Minh who all lost more soldiers — and civilians — in their wars against us than we did.
Perhaps a million Chinese were casualties in Korea, ten times the number of Americans killed, wounded, and missing. Are we then to forget that the Communists crossed the Yalu River to implement totalitarianism in the south — and instead agree that their catastrophic wartime sacrifices were proof of American culpability? Palestinians suffer more casualties than Israelis not because they wish to, or because they are somehow more moral — but because they are not as adept in fighting real soldiers in the full-fledged war that is growing out of their own intifada.
We are told that Palestinian civilians who are killed by the Israeli Defense Forces are the moral equivalent of slaughtering Israeli civilians at schools, restaurants, and on buses. That should be a hard sell for Americans after September 11, who are currently bombing in Afghanistan to ensure that there are not more suicide murderers on our shores. This premise hinges upon the acceptance that the suicide bombers' deliberate butchering of civilians is the same as the collateral damage that occurs when soldiers retaliate against other armed combatants.
[.........]
An ignorance of historical context is also critical for such postmodern revisionism. If the conflict is due to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, then the first three wars for the survival of Israel itself must be conveniently ignored. If there is a push for the exchange of land for peace, then we must overlook that some in the Arab world who have suggested just that bromide in the past three decades were either assassinated or executed. And if we accept that both sides are equally culpable for the current killing, we must forget that less than two years ago the Palestinians rejected an Israeli offer to return 97% of the West Bank, along with other major concessions — assuming that unleashing the present intifada could get them still more.
Facts mean nothing. The dispute is purportedly over the principle of occupation — but next-door Syria holds far more Lebanese land than Israel does the West Bank...."
Palestinians have died in the thousands at the hands of Israel and that's just an estimate over the last decade.
Also, it does matter that none died in the months prior to the Gaza War because hundreds of innocent Palestinians died in that war.
:shock: Are you sure you live in Israel?
How can anyone not see it? I think maybe you're just deflecting.
There is no "sorry I offended you" but an apology for your blatant assertion of Israeli moral superiority over the rest of the world. My reading comprehension is fine and you clearly stated, unequivocally, that Israel is better than the rest of the world.
There is no "sorry I offended you" but an apology for your blatant assertion of Israeli moral superiority over the rest of the world. My reading comprehension is fine and you clearly stated, unequivocally, that Israel is better than the rest of the world.
I oft see this piece of fallacious reasoning.
Palestinians started and continued the Intifada/war with Israel quite content with that ratio.
A war palestinians relished both demographically and PR wise.
Israel is Not obliged to only respond 'proportionally' and allow a 50 year war of attrition.
An intentional war no civilized country should allow if it can stop it.
Thankfully the fence in large part did.
The reason why is because of the advanced warning systems and the fact that Israeli homes within Hamas rocket range must be built with at least one bomb shelter or fortified room. But perhaps you would prefer that Israel traded katusha rocket for katusha rocket with Hamas, and see how harmless they are without the early warning systems and building codes. Exponentially more "Palestinians" would die than have if Israel were to adopt "Palestinian" tactics.
Pretty sure yes, and this is why I know there was no truce, rocket fire from Gaza strip never ceased it only got less frequent
You are the one deflecting just because you don't have an answear and you already had 2 days to think of one.
I never used the word "world" just because I didn't mean the "world", as I said you put my things out of context we were discussing certian conflicts in the world prior to my statement.
I would like to see the world treats Israel in the same standards it treats every other nation which is in a state of war, no matter what they excpect from us. We are still WAY better then the rest and being cirtisized for our actions like no one else in the world, besides north Korea perhaps.
I'm saying it plainly. European nations didn't wage war half-assed when their very survival depended on victory. Neither did the United States nor Russia nor Japan. Why then should Israel wage war half-assed?Are you suggesting Israel should actually be held to lower standards than the rest of the world?
I'm saying it plainly. European nations didn't wage war half-assed when their very survival depended on victory. Neither did the United States nor Russia nor Japan. Why then should Israel wage war half-assed?
The Gulf War is a good primer. The survival of the US wasn't at stake. Yet she bombed Iraq back into the pushcart age. Ministry buildings and palaces were leveled. Every airport runway was cratered. Roads, bridges, railroads, and port facilities were totally destroyed. So too were Iraq's electric grids, water pumping stations, and sewerage plants. The US even used B-52 bombers stationed in Diego Garcia and Missouri to carpet-bomb Iraqi targets. American jets hit Saddam's uranium enrichment sites and chemical/germ warfare plants spewing toxic material which christened the Gulf Syndrome. The US military flew 69,000 air sorties prior to the ground invasion. The pre-invasion air strike damage alone was so pervasive that the Iraqi infrastructure never recovered.
The only incident which caused some global distress was when the USAF deposited two Hellfire missiles into a bomb shelter killing over one hundred civilians and injuring hundreds more. Beyond that, not a peep about war "standards" and "proportionality".
So don't give me this crap about lower standards.
Says you, the people of Sderot will disagree. You cannot live normal life under constant fear.Oh, so that's the argument you make. In point of fact rocket fire was greatly diminished to the point where there was no disruption to normal life in any part of Israel.
So 1-5 rocket attacks a month during the whole "truce" has no distruption on normal life but taking out a group of militants who tunneled a tunnel which lead into the Israeli border, similar to the one used by Shalit's hijackares is a "serious violation". I see, thanks for making it clear.After Israel made a serious violation of the truce the rocket attacks resumed.
You've already made it clear that you don't have an answear.I do have answer, but it is kind of you like asking me to explain why the sky is blue. The notion that I have to explain something so basic is kind of an insult.
:doh Do I really need to do this again?:
You cannot run from what you said. Indeed, you only demonstrate the typical attitude of Israeli hawks so it isn't surprising. Some Israelis think their country is criticized by a cruel world that is so hypocritical because Israel is so much better than them. The notion that "you would do worse" is the common retort to everyone else in the world and aside from being deeply insulting it is wrong. If the rest of the world behaved like Israel the U.S. would have demolished whole cities in Mexico by now, and Russia would have left Georgia in shambles. The inverted world Israel likes to put forward as a defense does not exist. In point of fact, most of the world shows greater restraint than Israel, even third world dictatorships.
Out of all debaters in the world, only a pro-Palestinian could actually form the argument that the destruction of a tunnel that its mere existence is a clear violation of the agreement is a violation of the agreement.So 1-5 rocket attacks a month during the whole "truce" has no distruption on normal life but taking out a group of militants who tunneled a tunnel which lead into the Israeli border, similar to the one used by Shalit's hijackares is a "serious violation". I see, thanks for making it clear.
I'm saying it plainly. European nations didn't wage war half-assed when their very survival depended on victory. Neither did the United States nor Russia nor Japan. Why then should Israel wage war half-assed?
The Gulf War is a good primer. The survival of the US wasn't at stake. Yet she bombed Iraq back into the pushcart age. Ministry buildings and palaces were leveled. Every airport runway was cratered. Roads, bridges, railroads, and port facilities were totally destroyed. So too were Iraq's electric grids, water pumping stations, and sewerage plants.
Says you, the people of Sderot will disagree. You cannot live normal life under constant fear.
So 1-5 rocket attacks a month during the whole "truce" has no distruption on normal life but taking out a group of militants who tunneled a tunnel which lead into the Israeli border, similar to the one used by Shalit's hijackares is a "serious violation". I see, thanks for making it clear.
You've already made it clear that you don't have an answear.
I don't have to run from anything, you can bold whatever you want, every person who passed 4th grade language lessons understands that the word "rest" reflects on "every other nation which is in a state of war" and to be specific we were talking Russia, Sudan, Caucasus and the US earlier in this discussion.
They have a much more normal life than the Palestinians this much I can guarantee.
One to five rocket attacks a month wouldn't be a disruption to normal life. Anyone who has lived in a city with anything close to a high crime rate would probably have preferred to live in Sderot during the truce. As for the tunnel, assuming it was what Israel claimed it was, it was not a violation of any part of the truce.
I have made it clear that I am not willing to entertain such an asinine request. If you were to raise a serious question about something that you would reasonably lack knowledge of I would feel inclined.
There are very few countries you could mention that have not been to war in the past two decades and you said Israel is "way" better than all of them.
Having better life than the Paletinians doesn't make their life normal, of course they have better life than the Palestinians, I don't think anyone here will disagree, but they never enjoyed normal life for the past 9 years. Yet again you demonstrate how you value life of Palestinians more than the life of Israelies.
You said bombing this tunnel is a "serious violation", how is it more serious than 1-5 rockets fired in the months between the "truce" started to Israel's tunnel bombardment?
And I've made it clear you have no answear and thus you come up with excuses of a kindergarten child
Name one who had engaged in an armed conflict and did better efforts to minimize civilian casualties than Israel in the past two decades.
So you say, yet even when rocket attacks hit areas presumably outside of their range there is no large rise in casualties.
Of course, the real reason there were so few casualties is because there were so few rockets fired during that period.
How is it valuing the lives of Palestinians more to say they have sufferred far more than Israel, which is all I have said? You seem to think any time an Israeli gets inconvenienced its worth the lives of 10 Palestinian children.
And only militants on their way to an attack on IDF outposts died on Israel's attack.No Israelis died in those rocket attacks.
You don't have an answear, just face it.Oh, for ****'s sake, ask anyone here why the Middle East is more relevant than Africa or the Caucasus to people in the West and I'm sure they'll have plenty of answers for you, however, I am not going to baby you.
Do you think Israel dropping fliers makes them better than the rest of the world? Far from it, because they use that to justify attacks on any and every target they want without regard to whose in them. It especially doesn't help when you declare that pretty much any moving vehicle in the area is a target. If that is what you mean by "efforts to minimize civilian casualties" then you should correct your own distorted perception of Israel's actions before you slander other countries.
None of this even begins to talk about Israel's itchy trigger finger.
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