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2016 Presidential Election night discussion [Read #1397]

I went to bed about 10:30 CT and woke up to find the results, which were fairly evident when I went to bed. I am not wading through the 100+/- pages I missed while sleeping, but may contribute if something catches my eye.
 
Trump won because of 'white', relatively poor people without a college degree.

How Trump Won the Election According to Exit Polls - The New York Times

Clinton got the wealthy and/or well educated 'white' vote.

But she did not get the rest of the voters as much as Obama did.

Basically, if you were middle/lower class without a college degree...odds are you voted for Trump.


Normally, the 'ignorant masses' would not be a good choice to choose a leader, IMO. But America has been run by the ruling elite for a while now...and America has become stale, stagnant, bloated and VERY supportive of the rich.

Maybe it's time for the 'ignorant masses' to run things for a while. They could hardly do much worse as the federal government is basically just propping up banks/corporations/major stock holders at the expense of the middle/lower classes and constantly telling everyone how brilliant they are by doing it this way.
The rich are getting much richer and more numerous and the middle class are being left behind.

The question - to me - is Trump really a friend of the masses? Or is he really just another rich guy who knew what to say to get elected and once in office, will support the elite as well - but in a slightly different way?

We shall see.
 
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The question - to me - is Trump really a friend of the masses? Or is he really just another rich guy who knew what to say to get elected and once in office, will support the elite as well - but in a slightly different way?

We shall see.

An excellent question. What he gets done will tell us that. I expect what he will get done is tax cuts for corporations and the rich - not exactly anything that helps the masses. A Republican Congress will be salivating to get that done and its a wet dream come true for them. The big infrastructure spending projects which he promised will most likely not happen or if we see anything it will be modest and test programs and they really will not produce the jobs he alluded to.

I further suspect he will NOT be able to bring those manufacturing jobs back to the USA and will NOT impose any kind of tariff on companies to prevent more from moving. So the working people will be let down there as well.
 
I haven't posted here in 5 years, but I just felt I had to today.

I'm ashamed we elected a raging misogynist to the highest office in the land.
 
When I typed that I was going off projections by the NY Times and others which said she would win the popular vote. And the latest update a few minutes ago shows she is over 100,000 votes ahead.

actual popular vote as of 8:45 am this morning

Clinton 59,186,057
Trump 59, 046,660

There is some still to count so this could change.

What I will never understand is why the big cities continue to support the status quo and ignore what is actually going on. California/NY/Illinois big cities continue to vote for what they have and that should be discouraging for all. You do the same thing over and over again and you expect different results? That isn't going to happen. this is a perfect example of why the popular vote doesn't elect the President.
 
The pendulum will always continue to swing. No truer words have ever been spoken.

It's like we are all living the Game of Thrones and the winter is settling in. Watch for the White Walkers. LOL!

This swing was harder than most. This will probably ensure at least a 6-3 conservative split on the supreme court... for decades. And it will help ensure that the large over-representation that Republicans enjoy now will get much larger when they gerrymander in 2020 even more. Sure the pendulum will go back, but not anytime soon. Not when we can have bigger, better and more powerful Citizens United rulings and the like.
 
I haven't posted here in 5 years, but I just felt I had to today.

I'm ashamed we elected a raging misogynist to the highest office in the land.

I am ashamed that so many people like you ignore results and buy rhetoric. The media and Clinton political machine indoctrinated you well
 
I shouldn't admit it but this kind of bitter reaction from people like David Remnick is kinda satisfying ...

The election of Donald Trump to the Presidency is nothing less than a tragedy for the American republic, a tragedy for the Constitution, and a triumph for the forces, at home and abroad, of nativism, authoritarianism, misogyny, and racism. Trump’s shocking victory, his ascension to the Presidency, is a sickening event in the history of the United States and liberal democracy. On January 20, 2017, we will bid farewell to the first African-American President—a man of integrity, dignity, and generous spirit—and witness the inauguration of a con who did little to spurn endorsement by forces of xenophobia and white supremacy. It is impossible to react to this moment with anything less than revulsion and profound anxiety.

... and he goes on

An American Tragedy - The New Yorker
 
Trump won because of 'white', relatively poor people without a college degree.

Clinton got the wealthy and/or well educated 'white' vote.

But she did not get the rest of the voters as much as Obama did.

Basically, if you were middle/lower class without a college degree...odds are you voted for Trump.

Maybe Clinton got the votes of the "intellectual elite," but this is not to say that "wealthy and/or well-educated" people didn't vote for Trump. I know a lot of folks who fall into that category who did.
 
I haven't posted here in 5 years, but I just felt I had to today.

I'm ashamed we elected a raging misogynist to the highest office in the land.

I'm embarrassed for America but yesterday we proved we deserve it.
 
Re: 2016 Presidential Election night discussion [Read #758]

I think we are all hoping for the best. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

But on a brighter note, legalizing recreational marijuana was voted for in at least two more states. I don't think the Donald will get between that. They say that underneath the red tie he can be quite liberal. But I don't know. I don't know what to think about anything anymore. Maybe his ego coupled with America's desire for an authoritarian dictatorial personality/administration, he may just drug test us all and send the pot smokers to concentration camps. Who knows? We will find out. I'm thinking positive though. Maybe he'll be good.

Trump is not a conservative in most any way. He's personally, I'd say, on the hedonistic side of the libertarian political scale. I'm somewhat surprised social conservatives voted for him - if he's anything, he's not socially conservative - but then, Hillary is the anti-Christ to most social conservatives so that probably swung the scales his way.

What you can be hopeful of/for is that Trump has spent a lifetime making "deals" of one kind or another. You've just spent 8 years with a President whose rigidity on policy and politics made it impossible for congressional legislators to join him or he join them in any meaningful way. It's possible, and I'd say likely, that Trump will be far more capable in that regard and more like Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, and even GW Bush, in getting Congress to work with him to get things moving. Part of strong leadership is being able to inspire or coerce others to come along with you - being stubborn and obstinate, my way or nothing in the Obama mold, gets you nowhere fast.

And to our friends on the left who are concerned about abortion rights, gay rights, etc., Donald Trump isn't the guy you should be afraid of. I'm almost certain that there will be precious little if anything that is initiated by the White House that is even remotely related to what I can "bedroom" issues. The man is anything but a religious puritan, so no need to push the fear that all is lost with a Trump Presidency.
 
Re: 2016 Presidential Election night discussion [Read #758]

And to our friends on the left who are concerned about abortion rights, gay rights, etc., Donald Trump isn't the guy you should be afraid of. I'm almost certain that there will be precious little if anything that is initiated by the White House that is even remotely related to what I can "bedroom" issues. The man is anything but a religious puritan, so no need to push the fear that all is lost with a Trump Presidency.
And yet what about the Supreme Court? I agree that Trump likely wouldn't pursue those sorts of things, but who he nominates can result in changes without his involvement, or support. Right?
 
I am ashamed that so many people like you ignore results and buy rhetoric. The media and Clinton political machine indoctrinated you well

I truly have no idea what you're talking about. Ignoring results and buying rhetoric?

I don't like Clinton and never have - I didn't vote for her. She's unlikeable and I disagree with many of her policies. She's a competent politician who would keep us on the status quo, which I also don't particularly like.

I also think Trump is just a plain disgusting human being, though. His financial policies make very little sense. People may want radical changes, but jeez, check to make sure they have a chance of working instead of just blindly being different. Different doesn't mean better. It's acceptable to react in rash ways to those emotions as a child. Not as an adult with responsibility.
 
Re: 2016 Presidential Election night discussion [Read #758]

Trump is not a conservative in most any way. He's personally, I'd say, on the hedonistic side of the libertarian political scale. I'm somewhat surprised social conservatives voted for him - if he's anything, he's not socially conservative - but then, Hillary is the anti-Christ to most social conservatives so that probably swung the scales his way.

Absolutely true. I keep saying it... in a democracy when you vote you deserve what you get.

The monolithic black vote put their foot down in the primary and gave us Hillary as a candidate in the general so they deserve the trump presidency we got now.
The latino vote turned out to be lackluster as hell... they deserve trump.
The uneducated white women vote that backed Trump deserves a SCOTUS that will overturn of Rowe vs Wade.
The Christian conservatives deserve this whatever religious stripe Trump claims to be.

Cons may have turned out in force to vote AGAINST Hillary, but now we are going to live with what they voted FOR. It's going to be interesting to say the least.
 
Apparently, Hillary Clonton will speak at 10:30 a.m. EST.


I think she should have done it last night and I think it shows how weak she is that she obviously could not face the nation right after her defeat.
I judge people by what they are like when the going gets tough. Clinton failed on that score last night by running for cover when her dreams were shattered. That speaks volumes about her, IMO.

A smart, tough talking woman but an emotionally weak one underneath it all - I believe.
 
No matter who won, Satan or Jezebel, I was going to be unhappy. But that said, watching the Clinton machine go down in flames was a big assed bonus for me. I hope we never see the Clintons again after this. Either of them. She is a very bad woman. Leave it to the Dems and the Republicans to each put up the one candidate that would keep people away.
Like the monster clown from "IT" the Clintons don't go down easy. Chelsea is in the wings ready to destroy American decency. The Bush family is always waiting in the wings wiuth their disgusting sense of entitlement.
 
I truly have no idea what you're talking about. Ignoring results and buying rhetoric?

I don't like Clinton and never have - I didn't vote for her. She's unlikeable and I disagree with many of her policies. She's a competent politician who would keep us on the status quo, which I also don't particularly like.

I also think Trump is just a plain disgusting human being, though. His financial policies make very little sense. People may want radical changes, but jeez, check to make sure they have a chance of working instead of just blindly being different. Different doesn't mean better. It's acceptable to react in rash ways to those emotions as a child. Not as an adult with responsibility.

The alternative to Trump was more of the same. From an unconvicted felon. No real choice.
 
Like the monster clown from "IT" the Clintons don't go down easy. Chelsea is in the wings ready to destroy American decency. The Bush family is always waiting in the wings wiuth their disgusting sense of entitlement.

Pennywise.
 
Okay, so apparently the word is now that they didn't really have a concession speech prepared last night. Or at least not one that was necessarily appropriate for what actually occurred last night. So they held off till the morning to prepare a more appropriate speech as opposed to giving one off the cuff last night.

The fact they weren't really prepared for this potential thing is part of what makes the whole results that much more astounding and plays into the fact that everyone (myself included) thought this was largely in the bag. It'll be interesting to see what her concession speech ends up being.

Not surprising at all. God Hillary is just a disgusting and awful piece of festering garbage.
 
What I will never understand is why the big cities continue to support the status quo and ignore what is actually going on. California/NY/Illinois big cities continue to vote for what they have and that should be discouraging for all. You do the same thing over and over again and you expect different results? That isn't going to happen. this is a perfect example of why the popular vote doesn't elect the President.

The popular vote does not elect the President because we have a mechanism that goes back over 230 years at a time when the average persons vote was denied and the elites wanted to make sure their voice was the determining one.

So today we have a rigged system that benefits voters in small states and penalizes voters in large states.
 
I'm embarrassed for America but yesterday we proved we deserve it.

Some people, you, will never get it, results matter, not rhetoric. The media and Clinton political machine indoctrinated a lot of Americans by bombarding them with rhetoric diverting from the Obama and Hillary results. You bought the rhetoric and I am embarrassed for you
 
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