Zimmerman 2nd degree murder (3 Viewers)

[Simon W. Moon]

Actually he based it on reading the affidavit, particularly re probable cause, and the evidence.

I am not sure why you imply that I said otherwise.

 

[Boo Radley]

Again, he wasn't addressing the evidence or who was guilty or innocent. He was simply addressing the arresting document.

I only refer to him in raltionship to the comment made, which means context matters here. His name came up to me not as a procedural issue, but as to what the prosecutor was doing with no evidence, in that context, he can't know everything.

Now, even a document has to be measured somewhat on the evidence behind it.

 

[Boo Radley]

Allow me to point what I mean Buck:

Dershowitz’s point: There’s nothing in the charging instrument that suggests probable cause to believe Zimmerman had a “depraved mind regardless of human life” when he shot Martin. On the contrary, he notes, the facts as stated are consistent with self-defense. (Tellingly, there’s also no reference to Zimmerman’s injuries.) The prosecution can amend the affidavit to strengthen its case if the judge throws it out, but then you’re left wondering why they didn’t submit a more detailed affidavit in the first place.

Now it's up to a judge to agree, or the prosecutor to admend. But I also saw this:

A judge found probable cause to proceed with the case based on the affidavit, and Zimmerman entered a not guilty plea, his attorney said.

(snip)

When Martin tried to run home, "Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin," it says.

"Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued," it says, adding: "Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest. When police arrived Zimmerman admitted shooting Martin."


U.S. News - Prosecutors contend George Zimmerman provoked confrontation with Trayvon Martin

Now, the prosecutor has to prove this. We should not accept this as gospel yet, but this si the basis for the charge.

 

[Excon]

There was no stalking and pursuing.
You are making things up.

I would say that we really don't know about this.

By the evidence that is known to us, yes we do know.

No, we don't. We don't know what happened at the curical moments. We really don't.

I see.
We are talking about the crucial moments now, instead of the false "stalking and pursuing" claim leading up to the crucial moments?
I see.
LOL

 

[SheWolf]

Idk what he said on tv, but there's this:

Prosecutor's quandary: Zimmerman may be indicted, then acquitted - CNN.com

Which IS full of "ifs" and "mays" and qualifiers and mentions of "we don't know" and of not having all the facts, etc.

:shrug:

What I am wondering is why would the prosecutor reveal all the evidence at this point? I would think that some evidence would and will only come out in public trial to the general public. Many of the analysts seem to be picking on the evidence as reason to overcharge... :shrug:

 

[Oberon]

Yes. There's probably, like, huge mounds of Super Top Secret Evidence in the prosecutor's hands and stuff.

lol .... Apparently, a lot of people think it's okay to lock people up and charge them with baseless crimes for no reason other than idle suspicions, as long as a mob demands they do that.

 

[Leo]

Lol ... how dare a 'liberal' actually defy PC Orthodoxy and antisemitism by supporting those Jooooooossssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, that alone makes him utterly untrustworthy.

And lol at citing Norman Finklestein; yes, there's real 'scholar'. Can't get tenure, because hey, claiming to be a 'Mid East Scholar' while not speaking a single Middle Eastern language is no big deal if Noam Chomsky likes you, eh, so it has to be AIPAC keeping the mutt out of a job, and not his insane ravings, right? lol ...

So you missed the 'he is a man of many parts' bit? And where does antisemitism come into the equation? Dershowitz is an ardent supporter of Zionism, and has advocated measures of collective punishment which are against human rights and international law. He has also supported torture under warrant. His views are not what I would term 'liberal' in any meaningful sense of the word, and I would not consider him the epitome of impartiality. Make of that what you want.

 

[Jryan]

Yes. There's probably, like, huge mounds of Super Top Secret Evidence in the prosecutor's hands and stuff.

lol .... Apparently, a lot of people think it's okay to lock people up and charge them with baseless crimes for no reason other than idle suspicions, as long as a mob demands they do that.

I agree unless there is some super top secret evidence, which big trials like this do have or else they would never be able to ID witnesses. I think you are right here in that this was a political move rather than a, for lack of a better word, ethically right move.

(Again, I could be completely wrong or completely right, I have no idea what is going on with this investigation/trial. Not calling him guilty until they release the facts and I can see them my self)

 

[Crosscheck]

Yes. There's probably, like, huge mounds of Super Top Secret Evidence in the prosecutor's hands and stuff.

lol .... Apparently, a lot of people think it's okay to lock people up and charge them with baseless crimes for no reason other than idle suspicions, as long as a mob demands they do that.

The irony is that one statement is what caused this whole mess.

 

[justabubba]

The irony is that one statement is what caused this whole mess.

not doubting you whatsoever. but i do not know what that one statement was. would you please share it

 

[SheWolf]

Yes. There's probably, like, huge mounds of Super Top Secret Evidence in the prosecutor's hands and stuff.

lol .... Apparently, a lot of people think it's okay to lock people up and charge them with baseless crimes for no reason other than idle suspicions, as long as a mob demands they do that.

If the charge and arrest are baseless, that will eventually become clear. If it is baseless, then Corey should loss her job and career and Zimmerman should be allowed to sue for damages.

 

[Crosscheck]

not doubting you whatsoever. but i do not know what that one statement was. would you please share it

Why sure.

charge them with baseless crimes for no reason other than idle suspicions

Martin had not done any criminal activity that night but yet it was the suspicions of Zimmerman that started the whole mess.

Myself I refuse to live in a Big Brother Nation where everytime I walk down the freaking street somebody is assuming that I am an asshole and needs to be tagged. This is the crap of Communist Russia 1960's where every neighbor mistrusted their neighbor and the police kept you in line.

 

[justabubba]

Why sure.




Martin had not done any criminal activity that night but yet it was the suspicions of Zimmerman that started the whole mess.

Myself I refuse to live in a Big Brother Nation where everytime I walk down the freaking street somebody is assuming that I am an asshole and needs to be tagged. This is the crap of Communist Russia 1960's where every neighbor mistrusted their neighbor and the police kept you in line.

OK, thanks. now i see the sentence that allows the rest to be unfolded


while i understand your sentiment, i do not agree with it
zimmerman had rights, too
his were no greater nor lesser than those of martin
zimmerman was monitoring the community for criminal activity
he reported to the police activity he found suspicious
was his suspicion well founded? can't say. there was nothing on martin's person to say he burgled on that fateful evening. but in his recent past, there was indication that he was prone to taking items that were not his, such as the collection of jewelry he could not explain away at school
so, was he casing the neighborhood that was not his, but was his father's fiancee's, which locale only that date became his temporary refuge after being suspended from his new school. unable to say yes or no
what i have been unable to find is anything telling us that zimmerman's account, that he acted in self defense, was untruthful
like everyone else, i will have to see if that comes out in the trial

 

[Excon]

If it is baseless, then Corey should loss her job and career and Zimmerman should be allowed to sue for damages.

I seriously doubt that will happen.

Most people are not aware that this kind of crap is commonplace and is part of the norm.
It shouldn't be, but it is.
It is so much the norm, that those involved have come to believe it is acceptable.

 

[j-mac]

Why sure.




Martin had not done any criminal activity that night but yet it was the suspicions of Zimmerman that started the whole mess.

Myself I refuse to live in a Big Brother Nation where everytime I walk down the freaking street somebody is assuming that I am an asshole and needs to be tagged. This is the crap of Communist Russia 1960's where every neighbor mistrusted their neighbor and the police kept you in line.

Should we outlaw Neighborhood Watch?


j-mac

 

[sharon]

If the charge and arrest are baseless, that will eventually become clear. If it is baseless, then Corey should loss her job and career and Zimmerman should be allowed to sue for damages.

Prosecutors have immunity ..........

 

[ric27]

such as the collection of jewelry he could not explain away at school

Very astute on your part

Hmmm... The origins of the jewelry. That lead must be followed through to establish a connection

Establishing a tie end or link to a burglary, robbery, sexual assault, etc. would be awesome.

casing the neighborhood

Quite possible. Probing, casing, etc the area before making the hit

 

[justabubba]

Prosecutors have immunity ..........

as a general rule
but if a case can be made that she acted outside her authority and/or in her own personal interests instead of fulfilling her fiduciary responsibility to the state, that veil can be pierced and civil suit be lodged against her personally

 

[sharon]

Very astute on your part

Hmmm... The origins of the jewelry. That lead must be followed through to establish a connection

Establishing a tie end or link to a burglary, robbery, sexual assault, etc. would be awesome.

Quite possible. Probing, casing, etc the area before making the hit

Its a 10 minute walk from the gate to Travon's father's girlfriend's house.. Travon was dead less than 8 minutes after GZ called 911... 70 yards from the house.

Casing is never mentioned by GZ.. nor did he say Trayvon was peeping into windows, jiggling door knobs or looking into cars.

 

[sharon]

as a general rule
but if a case can be made that she acted outside her authority and/or in her own personal interests instead of fulfilling her fiduciary responsibility to the state, that veil can be pierced and civil suit be lodged against her personally

Prosecutors have absolute immunity from civil liability...... Read the law.

 

[justabubba]

Prosecutors have absolute immunity from civil liability...... Read the law.

i stand corrected; thank you
Prosecuting offices' immunity tested - USATODAY.com

 

[sharon]

i stand corrected; thank you
Prosecuting offices' immunity tested - USATODAY.com

Use findlaw not USA today.... and in only Florida murder 1 has to go before a GJ..

Re: Murder 2.. Here is the Florida schedule of lesser included offenses:

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/d...bin/91815b.pdf

Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder. It's on page four - section 782.04(2).

Manslaughter 1, section 782.07, is a Category 1 lesser included offense. There are several Category 2 lesser included offenses as well.

An interesting provision of the manslaughter statutes that makes it a likely resolution of the criminal case: Fla Stat 782.11, "Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act". It states that, if a person unnecessarily kills another person while resisting their unlawful act, it's manslaughter.

 

[ric27]

Its a 10 minute walk from the gate to Travon's father's girlfriend's house.. Travon was dead less than 8 minutes after GZ called 911... 70 yards from the house.

Casing is never mentioned by GZ.. nor did he say Trayvon was peeping into windows, jiggling door knobs or looking into cars.

You focus on the jewelry, first. You try to make a connection (theft, burglary, etc) and the rest will follow

The jewelry lead must be followed through. Leave no stone unturned

 

[Gladiator]

Why sure.



Martin had not done any criminal activity that night but yet it was the suspicions of Zimmerman that started the whole mess.

Myself I refuse to live in a Big Brother Nation where everytime I walk down the freaking street somebody is assuming that I am an asshole and needs to be tagged. This is the crap of Communist Russia 1960's where every neighbor mistrusted their neighbor and the police kept you in line.

What was Trayvon's blood alcohol level? Was it legal for Trayvon to drink?

What drugs were tested for in the autopsy? What were the results? Could further drug tests be conducted on the samples taken during the aoutopsy? Were the drugs legal? What perscriptions were issued to Trayvon in the past years? What persciption medications did Tayvon have physical access to?

Was Zimmerman profiling Trayvon, or was Trayvon loitering in a way like he was casing places, or was otherwise looking for some action?

There may be evidence that Trayvon had committed a crime earlier in the evening. But was it rational for Trayvon to start a fist fight with George Zimmerman? Bang George's head on the sidewalk after Trayvon got George to the ground? Tell George he was going to kill George?

The question is whether Zimmerman had other realistic choices, other than firing a fatal shot into Trayvon's chest. Trayvon may have committed any number of crimes that evening, but George did not observe any actual criminal behavior, except maybe Drunk in Public.

If you have a gun, and I reach for your gun, in close combat, can I claim that I am unarmed?

Where did Trayvon get the jewlery found in his backpack at school? Was the screwdriver in Trayvon's backpack really a burglary tool? Was Trayvon an accoplished burgalar? Did Trayvon really swing at a bus driver involving one of his High School suspensions? Was Zimmerman correct in his assessment of Trayvon, that Trayvon was displaying criminal intents and purposes?

Perhaps an important lesson, from this tragedy, is that committing crimes like drinking under age, and smoking Marijuana, and burglarizing homes or school lockers, is that illegal activities will lead to changes in your attitude and behavior, that will sometimes be picked up on by other people, and situations may arise, that otherwise would not happen. To accuse George Zimmerman of profiling, is to negate the lesson, that illegal activites have consequences beyond the criminal justice system. Having a trustworthy reputation can be important for obtaining employment or promotions. Young and old people, can better prevent unnecessary tragedies by carrying Honor.




//

 

[joko104]

Enough with the tin foil hattery of "they will break him while in his cell" bullcrap. He's going through the very same process as everyone else does whose been arrested and headed to trial.

That is 100% false. They do not put every person arrested even before conviction into isolation, take away the TV and collect-calls-only phone and all writing materials for legal matters or correspondence from every person in jail. He has been denied all due process and constitutional rights.

Go try to sit in an empty closet for 24 hours.

I also read that the prosecutor was gloating about Zimmerman crying while being held in punitive isolation and sensory depravation, when such information about inmates is never given out. Maybe the jail will release some photos of him using the toilet too.