Why I changed my mind on weed

[Ikari]

Why do people do this ? This stupid comparative argument.

Yes alcohol is bad, its no excuse to bring in something else thats bad but not AS bad into a population.

Because if you're going to be using government force against people's choice to smoke weed, then we need to examine the other levels of force and scale appropriately. If you don't want to attack alcohol, you have no real argument for attacking marijuana. While it is bad, it's not on the same level as alcohol abuse.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Would you be OK with relegating alcohol to medical use only?

Alcohol is already legal nationally. Marijuana is not. Making something less legal is entirely different from making something more legal and brings with it entirely different problems. Thus, the question isn't related to my position on marijuana. Ask me a question that isn't rooted in a false equivalency.

 

[Ikari]

Alcohol is already legal nationally. Marijuana is not. Making something less legal is entirely different from making something more legal and brings with it entirely different problems. Thus, the question isn't related to my position on marijuana. Ask me a question that isn't rooted in a false equivalency.

It's all about appropriate use of government force. If we're using it for our "protection", then that's that. If it's OK or even necessary to ban weed, then it's ok or even necessary to ban everything worse than weed. Government force is government force, and either it's appropriate or its not. It doesn't change phase simply because we talk about one drug over the other. It's not false equivalency, it's in fact equivalent analysis of government force against drugs.

 

[ItAin'tFree]

So if the legalization of pot reduces the deficit, creates jobs, helps many people with health issues, lightens the load on courts, police, and prisons.....that's something we should be careful about wishing for?


And I don't know anyone who wants pot to be 100% legal for all.

Most are perfectly happy with the idea of it being controlled in the same way alcohol is.
At the very least controlled like any prescription medication is.


And why do people who support the decriminalization of marijuana automatically get labeled as "pot heads"?

That's a very ignorant viewpoint isn't it?

LOL. Has taxing booze reduced the deficit?

Creates jobs? Maybe a few but I'm not even sure about that. Somebody's already growing and distributing the stuff. I don't think the local 7/11 would hire another clerk to sell it. Head shops might start to pop up for awhile but just as soon as groups like MADD get involved that will just about kill that off. The cops will sit outside the headshops instead of bars all the time. Like I said earlier, jail time ain't going away for the stuff. The people involved in it illegally now business wise,will move on to other crime, the jails will stay just about as full, at least from those that were in the business end of it. It is a gateway drug, people can lie all they want but it is, so when it's given government approval people that might have left it alone might try it. Then move on to the other stuff.

So better or worse? I can't give you a positive answer where I am 100% sure. But it sure won't be problem free or solve the amount of problems people think it will.

Don't want to be called a "pot head"? Don't be a "pot head".

 

[opendebate]

Oh don't get me wrong . Cancer patient or other chronic ilnesses ?

Allow access to it, but I'm a staunch NO for recreational use and lets be honest here.

That's why they want to legalize it. I watched a pro-legalize video on the stuff as the camera crew followed around " medicianl specialist" ( High school drop out dealers ) who delivered the stuff on bicycles to their " patients".

Give me a f****in break man.

I would have more respect for the push to legalize if it wasn't shrouded in false narratives and BULL SH** !

Okay but, what do you know about the negative effects of marijuana?

 

[What if...?]

So if the legalization of pot reduces the deficit, creates jobs, helps many people with health issues, lightens the load on courts, police, and prisons.....that's something we should be careful about wishing for?


And I don't know anyone who wants pot to be 100% legal for all.

Most are perfectly happy with the idea of it being controlled in the same way alcohol is.
At the very least controlled like any prescription medication is.


And why do people who support the decriminalization of marijuana automatically get labeled as "pot heads"?

That's a very ignorant viewpoint isn't it?

I'm quite sure there's a receipt somewhere for that connection.

 

[douglas]

Why do people do this ? This stupid comparative argument.

Yes alcohol is bad, its no excuse to bring in something else thats bad but not AS bad into a population.

Actually, it's not a stupid comparison at all; there was a "medical alcohol" movement before the repeal of alcohol prohibition.

 

[Fenton]

Okay but, what do you know about the negative effects of marijuana?

Oh please.

Do I have to post Links ?

There are multiple studies on top of studies that show how destructive Marijauana is.

What's Funny is, I'm expected to take the Word of people who are advocating the legalization of a drug that most likely THEY use.

And I'm usually told by those people, USUALLY RIGHT AFTER THEY TAKE A LONG PULL OFF OF A WATERBONG !!!!!, that the studies I post are bunk.

Friken unreal.

I'm against the dumbing down of our society. Govts know a stupid population is much easier to lie to.

 

[opendebate]

Oh please.

Do I have to post Links ?

There are multiple studies on top of studies that show how destructive Marijauana is.

What's Funny is, I'm expected to take the Word of people who are advocating the legalization of a drug that most likely THEY use.

And I'm usually told by those people, USUALLY RIGHT AFTER THEY TAKE A LONG PULL OFF OF A WATERBONG !!!!!, that the studies I post are bunk.

Friken unreal.

I'm against the dumbing down of our society. Govts know a stupid population is much easier to lie to.

Relax, boy are you a hair trigger. I never asked for links I am trying to find out what you base your opinion on. Different people have different reasons for opposing it.

If you are implying that I use it, I do advocate for it's legalization but I don't use it.

But if you really want to do something to prevent the further dumbing down of our society I suggest you start by getting Limbaugh, Hannity, Glenn Beck, Ann Coultur etc off the air.

 

[Ikari]

I'm against the dumbing down of our society. Govts know a stupid population is much easier to lie to.

Well it's too late for that, and it ain't because of weed.

 

[Deuce]

I've never smoked pot in my life, and never will even if it becomes legal. I think it should be legal. (but medical marijuana illegal. there's a freaking reason we refine various substances into highly purified and controlled dosages)

 

[What if...?]

Because if you're going to be using government force against people's choice to smoke weed, then we need to examine the other levels of force and scale appropriately. If you don't want to attack alcohol, you have no real argument for attacking marijuana. While it is bad, it's not on the same level as alcohol abuse.

Did you notice the abrupt appearance of this argument a little while back?

"Legalizing pot will just make TWO problematic substances to deal with, and one is bad enough."

PR firms at work protecting prison guards and pharmaceutical companies.

Like all the rest of it.

 

[Morrigi]

Sanjay Gupta just earned my respect. It takes a lot for someone in his position to admit that his well-publicized opinion was wrong like this, and because of that I'm going to watch that documentary.

 

[Juanita]

Oh please.

Do I have to post Links ?

There are multiple studies on top of studies that show how destructive Marijauana is.

What's Funny is, I'm expected to take the Word of people who are advocating the legalization of a drug that most likely THEY use.

And I'm usually told by those people, USUALLY RIGHT AFTER THEY TAKE A LONG PULL OFF OF A WATERBONG !!!!!, that the studies I post are bunk.

Friken unreal.

I'm against the dumbing down of our society. Govts know a stupid population is much easier to lie to.

I



Do you have any idea of how many people in this country die every year from prescription pain medication overdoses? Do you know how that compares to marijuana deaths? I know people who have smoked pot their whole lives and they are fine... It has to be decriminalized....The jails and prisons are full of those convicted of possession of pot....It has to end...It doesn't make any sense..

 

[Dragonfly]

What's Funny is, I'm expected to take the Word of people who are advocating the legalization of a drug that most likely THEY use.

What I posted was from a medical doctor. So rather than twist your little panties all up into a biased and ignorant knot over what you describe as a bunch of "waterbong" smokers just trying to make it easier to get high, maybe you should try looking at things from an intelligent approach.


There are many MANY people who are not pot smokers who advocate for the decriminalization of marijuana for many MANY reasons.

The comparison and contrast to alcohol, tobacco, and other prescription meds is 100% legitimate and reasonable.

As the doctor stated in the article from the OP, and I even provided the direct quote, we've been lied to for 70 years about marijuana.

Apparently you've swallowed that lie hook, line, and sinker so far down your throat you can't even begin to have a rational debate about this topic.

 

[tererun]

Word of caution to all dope heads out there. Be careful what you wish for. If it becomes legal across the board, by the time government taxes it to death, special interest groups have their say, lawyers find ways to file lawsuits over it; lots of people will be wishing it was illegal again. And jail time is never going away for that product, the charges will just be a little different. Just like booze.

Just a little FYI. Weed is easier to grow than tobacco. It grows in more places, and is pretty much cheaper to maintain. Even with the massive amount of taxes on tobacco and prices of brand name smokes weed would still be cheaper to buy taxed on the same level. There is a huge markup already there based upon the illegal nature of the product, the danger for distribution, and the necessity for organized crime to fund it's violence. Plus, you need a lot less of weed to be high than you need of tobacco, especially if it is the good stuff. There is stuff out there that will put a heavy smoker into the clouds with a small bowl or less. I have been to parties where 5 or 6 people could get a good high for a couple of hours on what would be equal to 2 cigarettes. People still buy it at those costs. There is huge money to be made by taxes and corporate profits and it would still be cheaper.

Oh, and it is already illegal to drive while high on anything. It is called driving while intoxicated or under the influence and it counts for any sort of high. Those laws are not just about drinking. So it is not legal presently anywhere in the country to drive while stoned already. They may increase the fines, penalties, and shouldd certainly come up with better ways to detect present intoxication of pot due to the reality it remains detectable for use long after the high has gone away. But you still should not be doing it because it is already illegal and quite unsafe.

 

[Dragonfly]

I do find it hilarious that the tried and true "don't tread on me" conservatives, who love to scream about the need for smaller government, less government intrusion, the erosion of "our rights" and "freedoms" and all that, are the same people who are so stubbornly stuck on this subject.

It's just more hypocrisy.

 

[tererun]

I used be staunchly against legalizing marijuana. Now I am more ambivalent about it with a slight bias towards only legalizing it for medical use, but not recreation. Thus, I was interested to read the article. I have to say that my favorite part was the following:



That's my favorite part because it acknowledges the harm that marijuana can do those who use it. That acknowledgment is so rare among those who advocate legalization and the fat that such proponents are so reluctant to admit that pot can hurt people is one of the THE BIGGEST TURNOFFS of the pro-legalization movement. It's very hard for me to get behind a movement full of supporters who either incredibly ignorant or incredibly deceptive. Who spread myths like "nobody gets addicted" or "it's entirely harmless except for a bad trip once in a while." So seeing a pro-legalization article that acknowledges the harm that pot can do to people makes me feel better about the movement and edges me closer to supporting its position.

It's also worth noting that it seems like he supports the use of medical marijuana, but doesn't take a position on recreational use.

The problem with your argument is the assumption we do not have the same problems already. You have not stopped the use of weed. The sale of weed is pretty easy to find, and if you are a kid it is even easier than getting alcohol or tobacco. At least in the case of legalization you get the ability to use the tax money to pay for any rehab or other problems we already pay for without the taxes. You get jobs and commerce. The people who enjoy it without problems have something else to enjoy in life which never effects you, and it would probably effect you less as you are already paying tons of tax money for DEA, the prison system, mandatory rehab, hospitalization, crime, poverty, and the bloated judicial system. All of those things get reduced with legalization across the board.

Finally, no one asked you to be our nanny. We do not need people like you telling us that large sodas are evil because they might make someone fat. We do not need you telling us that we cannot make such a choice. Learn what liberal means. It does not mean being a fascist and telling others how to live their lives with moral laws and being a nanny. If you are going to do that be a republican like you should be. Liberal in itself means open up your mind and accept those things which you may not like or participate in, but that do not harm you.

 

[Dragonfly]

I guarantee that if asked any teenage kid, from middle school age through high school, how easily they could get their hands on some marijuana, their answer would be something along the lines of: "How soon would you need it?"

The war on drugs has cost untold billions (trillions?) of dollars and been virtually ineffective in doing anything other than clogging the legal systems and jails.

Keeping marijuana illegal does more harm to our country than good. Plain and simple.

 

[tererun]

That's pretty much what it comes down to. I think that they need to show that there are objective positives that would come out of legalization of any illegal drug before it should be considered for legalization. The idea that it's not as bad as something else that's already legal isn't a reason to make it legal, it's a reason to make the other thing illegal. Now I'm not terribly opposed to legalizing pot, but other drugs? Forget it.

You want some positives of legalizing weed, here are a few.

1. Jobs: You will need jobs that range from growing to retail. You will employ more farmers, more distribution people, more people at retail outlets, and create new businesses in every part of those sectors. There is also the new industries of making smoking devices and other pot merchandise and selling it. Then you have an increase in any regulatory areas which would be needed to control the sale and quality of the product.

2. Taxes. Your have direct tax revenue from taxing the sale of the product. Plus you have the indirect taxes which come from the newly employed people and commercial revenue that allows people to purchase other products and services across society.

3. Lower use of unsafe pain relievers. Pot can be used in much healthier ways to reduce pain from many conditions. The liver damaging effects of many modern pain relievers would be reduced through a much safer and better method of controling mild to moderate pain.

4. Reduction in crime. The sales of pot presently are a huge contributor to the revenue of criminal organizations. Those organizations use that revenue to do violence on the street, to corrupt the government, and to destroy people's lives. By taking their revenue we can use it for more police and better abilities to drive things like gangs out of our neighborhoods while reducing the criminal's ability to fight. There is also the reality that our present pot laws contribute to ongoing poverty by putting regular people who may not want to be a part of crime into the criminal system. once you are arrested and convicted of sale or possession you are placed in the same category as any other violent person for the purposes of getting a job. This gives the criminal organizations a large group of poor soldiers to chose from because they become the only area many of those people can get employed, and it is a profitable area to be employed in.

5. Improved health care. Pot does actually have medicinal qualities and is not just a pain reducer as many pain reducers are. It actually helps with certain illnesses and has been found to reduce cancer risks. It is an all natural sleep aid and nausea reducer. It helps promote apatite for people who need that because of other medical procedures. It doesn't conflict with many other drugs. It is cheap also.

6. Happy people. Pot is not alcohol. It makes most people who take it happy instead of being a mood amplifier. People smoke it because it is fun to do. Being high is an interesting and fun experience on pot. The worst that seems to come from it would be adam sandler's movie career. I hate him as much as the next guy, but if something excuses the massive sales of his crap I do not care. Saturday night live might become good again.

So you wanted some good things, there you go. If you want to argue about legalization of other heavier substances that is another story. The good parts of legalized pot makes it a no brainer even a stoner can figure out.

 

[tererun]

Because some of us got through our teenage lives, and our adult lives, without needing to indulge, or experiment, with it.

That is not a good reason to be opposed to something. You do not need a variety of food. You could exist on a paste with he proper nutrients and some water. You do not need flavor to exist, but you like it even though many flavorful things are things you indulge, experiment, and harm yourself with. No one needs pot, but many people want to do it. A want is not a need, and most of our lives consist of enjoying things we want and never need. Not to mention there is a pretty good argument to be made that a person who is afraid of experience lives a lesser life just as you claim those who do experience things are weaker and lesser because it makes you feel better about your choices which you do not seem to enjoy. Your not taking something is not some form of strength which makes you better, it is simply your choice. That is your choice, but not one you should be making for others.

Anyone who thinks that marajuana is a harmless drug, is a fool.

The people who think it is a harmful drug are gullible. It is just simply not that bad. You have been lied to and told it is, but it is pretty harmless considering some of the very legal things we do every day. It is much more harmful to the world to drive a car, not to mention driving is not necessary if you have working feet. Perhaps you should have the strength to walk everywhere.

It's a drug, ergo by definition, it is harmful in some form, just as prescription drugs are and any other drug you can name is.

It is actually a plant, and one that is edible. being omnivores it is one of the substances we can consume for our survival. Perhaps you are not very educated on things like science and nutrition.

I think the same about alcohol and have been a teetotaller for almost all my adult life. I think there is no difference between either drug, they are both harmful. People who indulge in one drug and carry on about how "this drug is not as harmful as that drug" are deluding themselves.

Actually, alcohol is a poisonous substance. It is a sterilizing agent that kills cells. You can easily kill your4self on alcohol. it is impossible for you to kill yourself on pot. You would rupture your stomach before being able to eat enough of it to die. You would die of asphyxiation before you could smoke enough to kill yourself. SWo yes it is different than other drugs, including the OTC medications on your pharmacy shelves. Yes, that is a valid argument even if you do not like how it makes your argument silly.

The bottom line is that I have lived, and continue to live, my life without drugs because I have never needed any of them. I depend on ME, not some drug to relax, or to temporarily change my personality, or to cope with life. Anyone who experiments or indulges in any drug, has a need to do so.

They have a want to do so. You have completely deluded yourself into thinking every person who uses a drug is an addict. This really goes much more into your own desire to make yourself feel better about being you by pretending your lack of use makes you some great person. Besides, if you are great for resisting use, then actually resist use. That means there is an option for you to use. If you do not have an option to use, then you are not resisting anything and even your argument becomes false.

I am not talking about an addiction, I am talking about a need to either do what everyone else is doing, or a need to escape, or a need to find a way to relax, or any other number of needs one can think of.

You are talking about an addiction. yes, people can chose to do other things, but they should also be able to chose to do pot. It doesn't harm you, and it certainly does not mean you have to do it. Your life is not effected one way or another by others having the choice to do something. Anything you enjoy in this world is a choice you make. It is fun, and we do it because we want the experience and it enhances our lives. No one is telling you you cannot do the things you enjoy. Get out of our lives, and learn to chose on your own.

I know that as someone who has never tried marajuana and doesn't drink alcohol, I will be ignored or ridiculed by those who do indulge, for whatever reason, and that's ok, I don't mind. I have political discussions and I am howled down on a daily basis in my staff room....I cope

You should smoke. You seem to go through a lot of crap just to tell everyone how much better you are than they are. Maybe that is your problem. Maybe if you were not trying to be everyone's nanny and to tell them how to live their lives and judge them so harshly for something that doesn't effect you they would be less irritated with you. Pot is not your problem, you are bossy. Pot would probably make you not care so much about what others are doing and make you a much more pleasant and laid back person to be around. Perhaps you have made the wrong choices in life. I would at least say stop sticking your nose into other people's recreation.

(I am the oldest person in my faculty, surrounded by the youngsters who think they know everything, lol. They all drink....the women go home to glasses of red or white, the men go to the pub and, as I don't drink alcohol or any other drugs, and as I am pro-Israel and don't understand parents who nurture their teenagers "anxieties" and make excuses for their teenagers who suffer from LSD (lack of self-discipline), I am at loggerheads with my fellow teachers on a daily basis. I could never be a Year Advisor....my pastoral care would consist of "Are you over it yet?"
Anyway, perhaps I am not the person to be making a comment on drug use, having never indulged, but, just can't help myself.

We noticed you cannot help yourself but be baggy to others. What does pro-Isreal have to do with anything? I am pretty sure I have seen some stoned jews before in my life, and that there are people who smoke in Isreal. For someone who tells us all about what a great person they are for being a teatottaler, you certainly do seem to be quite the source of irritation to the people around you which seems to be making your environment much more irritating to you. I am not sure other people are the problem in your life. You seem to want everyone to see how great you are, and seem overly willing to tell them how to live their lives. You might want to just let some things slide with others rather than trying to be everyone's mother.

My son-in-law is even more conservative than I am....probably why we get on so well and I really like him. His only comment on drug use is that firstly, drug users no matter what the drug of choice is, are losers full stop. If a person wants to take drugs who cares, however, if they OD or need help it should be denied. No ambulance for overdoses, no health treatment....made you bed, lie in it and suffer the consequences of your choices. He was in the Army for 10 years (he met my daughter when she was in the Army) and he is a teetotaller, never drank in his life, never smoked and never indulged in other drugs. No wonder I like him so much! Unfortunately, both my son and daughter occassionally drink alcohol...sigh, I went wrong somewhere!

You keep telling yourself all of that. I have met many drug users who are quite succesful, and are much more pleasant to be around than someone who is bossy and nanny like.By your own admission you irritate those around you, and you seem to have a need to toot your own horn quite the good deal. I could see why hanging around with a laid back stoner might be a lot more pleasant than being around your and your judgments. I do not think them having a drink is where you went wrong in your life. perhaps it is that you can never enjoy a drink or life with them.

 

[Fenton]

I do find it hilarious that the tried and true
"don't tread on me" conservatives, who love to scream about the need for smaller government, less government intrusion, the erosion of "our rights" and "freedoms" and all that, are the same people who are so stubbornly stuck on this subject.

It's just more hypocrisy.

*water pipe bubbling in the background *...

"Dude you Conservitives don't know nothing man...fasist ! Dude, man, you guys are bad dude"...

Spare me OK. And learn the what defines a Conservative.

We believe in the rule of law, we believe in enforcing laws on the books.

 

[Tigger]

In other words he never really believed it to begin with. If he had, his viewpoint would not have been changeable.

 

[Dragonfly]

We believe in the rule of law, we believe in enforcing laws on the books.

So when it comes to changing laws that are wasteful, destructive, nonsensical, and based on lies, conservatives feel what exactly?

Because that's what we're talking about here, and that's the foundation of the article linked in the OP.

It's time for a law, or group of laws that do more harm than good to be changed.

And that's exactly what's happening all across the country. Thank goodness.

 

[digsbe]

I don't really care what this person thinks. In my professional opinion weed should remain illegal, if anything we should crack down more on alcohol and opioid use.