Why I changed my mind on weed

[DoubleSlit]

We have laws for a reason, and what the hell makes you think that it's ok to dump massive amounts of harmful chemicals into a society that I and my Family have to live in ? Why ? Because your'e too weak to live without a chemical crutch ?

Because we live in a free country, and I am a free person who owes you nothing. It does you no harm if I choose to take mind altering substances. Ergo, you have no standing to object.

I have the right to raise my family in a society that's not f***ing under the influence 24/7, and I have a right to expect that my kids will grow up in a society that's not awash with dangerous drugs.

Says who? Who the **** are you to tell me how to live? Kim Il Sung??

Stoners, with some exception, some of the stupidest people on the planet.

The only reason you say that is because you're not aware of the people in your life who are users. If you knew, you'd be shocked. Based on your description, if we ever met in real life, you'd swear there's no way I was a user.

 

[What if...?]

You're still talking about retail-level, non-technical jobs, not the high-tech, full-time, well-paying jobs that we really need in this country. We have plenty of Walmarts. Try again.



But you have to realize that almost immediately, cities and states are going to pass sin taxes on legal pot, just like they do on cigarettes. When illegal drugs can undercut the costs of legal drugs, how many people are going to go with overpriced legal drugs when there's already an illegal source and distribution network in place?



Which doesn't change anything I said. If you want to make it prescription only for cancer patients and the like, no problem. If you want to make it available to any Tom, Dick or Harry on the street, forget it.




I don't buy that for a second, they'd just turn their attention to other, more dangerous, means of making money, it won't reduce overall crime, it will just shift it from one crime to another.



The argument that there are a lot of stupid people out there is not a legitimate claim for making it easier for them to be stupid.



Society in general makes decisions for everyone all the time, that's how societies work. We decide how fast people can drive, who can get a license, who goes to jail, etc. Welcome to reality. Society will always have a say over what people within that society are allowed to do and not allowed to do.

I've spoken to many people on both sides, legal/medical and illegal, and the consensus is that legal commercial growers/disteubutors will replace illegal ones, and that the "sin taxes" will approximately equal the "felony" "taxes" already in place. That retail prices will be about the same as they are now.

I sont know of any illegal suppliers who have plans to move on to bigger crimes. They expect to be forced into retirement. I'm sure SOME will, but the idea that all or most will is not supported IME.

 

[zstep18]

I said people who needed substances to feel good about themselves, that's different from people who have a legitimate and medically verified condition.

I don't drink coffee to cope with problems. I don't occasionally eat bad food to cope with problems. I don't drink alcohol to cope with problems. If I smoked marijuana, it wouldn't be to cope with problems.

 

[Fenton]

Because we live in a free country, and I am a free person who owes you nothing. It does you no harm if I choose to take mind altering substances. Ergo, you have no standing to object.

You have confused " freedom " with anarchy and I have just as much right to raise a family in a society not awash with dangerous drugs and drug addicts as you do to cook your brain with chemicals.

Says who? Who the **** are you to tell me how to live? Kim Il Sung??

I do. Your wanting to alter your reality because you cannot handle actual reality does not supersede my right to live in a lawful society. I'm not a Libertarian, I'm a Conservative and your need to ingest dangerous chemicals doesn't compel me to give you rights that exceed my own.

If you were lucid maybe you would realize the dangers of a society that is defined by it's lowest common denominator. A society that goes out of it's way to make sure the stupidest among them get preferential treatment when it comes to decision making is a society on fast decline.

Evidence of this can be seen from the last two elections and the state of our Union.

The only reason you say that is because you're not aware of the people in your life who are users. If you knew, you'd be shocked. Based on your description, if we ever met in real life, you'd swear there's no way I was a user.

Oh please.
You have no idea.

 

[MACS-24]

You have confused " freedom " with anarchy and I have just as much right to raise a family in a society not awash with dangerous drugs and drug addicts as you do to cook your brain with chemicals.





I do. Your wanting to alter your reality because you cannot handle actual reality does not supersede my right to live in a lawful society. I'm not a Libertarian, I'm a Conservative and your need to ingest dangerous chemicals doesn't compel me to give you rights that exceed my own.

If you were lucid maybe you would realize the dangers of a society that is defined by it's lowest common denominator. A society that goes out of it's way to make sure the stupidest among them get preferential treatment when it comes to decision making is a society on fast decline.

Evidence of this can be seen from the last two elections and the state of our Union.





Oh please.
You have no idea.

How are your rights somehow superior over others?

We have laws for a reason, and what the hell makes you think that it's ok to dump massive amounts of harmful chemicals into society that I and my Family have to live in ? Why ? Because your'e too weak to live without a chemical crutch ?

I have the right to raise my family in a society that's not f***ing under the influence 24/7, and I have a right to expect that my kids will grow up in a society that's not awash with dangerous drugs.

You wan't to knock down your IQ 20 points, and limit your choices for a better life, for success ? Have at it, but it's going to be illegal under Federal law and MOST State laws AS IT SHOULD BE.

Stoners, with some exception, some of the stupidest people on the planet.

I just love people who spew nonsense like this. I bet you have a pristine lawn for your kids too. Is it okay that you and most all people "dump massive amounts of harmful chemicals into a society" (lawn chemicals, pesticides, household cleaners, car washing, etc.) as long as it is not illegal? Oh yeah, your rights trumps all others

 

[DoubleSlit]

You have confused " freedom " with anarchy and I have just as much right to raise a family in a society not awash with dangerous drugs and drug addicts as you do to cook your brain with chemicals.

Most drugs are not dangerous, nor do they cause addiction if used in moderation. Marijuana is incapable of causing addiction, regardless of the dosage used.

With regard to your "rights", your desire to hide your kids from the world does not trump my right to do as I wish with my own body. Sorry.

If you were lucid maybe you would realize the dangers of a society that is defined by it's lowest common denominator. A society that goes out of it's way to make sure the stupidest among them get preferential treatment when it comes to decision making is a society on fast decline.

Ah. You're a Nazi Statist. Got it.

You have no idea.

It is you who are uninformed, as you have bought the propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Hint: Pretty much EVERYTHING the government has ever told you about recreational drugs is a lie. Marijuana was originally outlawed because of outright racism, because the testimony given to Congress was that it caused black jazz artists to rape white women. One person even testified that he turned into a bat after having consumed it. THOSE lies from a century ago are why we're still fighting a futile and immoral war on freedom.

We can't even keep drugs out of prisons, fer ****s sake, you really think we're going to keep them off the streets? You're delusional. Not atypical of a gung ho drug warrior, though.

 

[DiAnna]

Obligatory disclaimer: I'm not a pot smoker, never have been.

I was very impressed by Dr. Gupta, not only with the article but with several interviews he has given over the past couple of days. He basically admitted to having bought into various marijuana studies done in this country without challenging the science or seeking out other scientific viewpoints. Now that he has done so, he says what so many people have said for decades: Marijuana is less harmful, more useful and safer than many prescription drugs in treating a variety of ailments.

Yes!! *fist bump!*

Although Gupta didn't go into his opinions on recreational usage, and does acknowledge that there can be some negative effects, he reiterated that he couldn't find a single documented case of marijuana causing a single death, something that cannot be said about alcohol or prescription drugs.

If marijuana was completely legalized, there is no downside. It would instantly break the backs of drug cartels for whom weed is their bread-and-butter product. It would empty out our prisons and backlogged courtrooms. If it could be legally grown, distributed, taxed and regulated like alcohol and tobacco products, the cost to consumers would be less, and the money going back to taxpayers would be significant.

This simply must be done on a federal level. It does no good for states to implement medical marijuana laws, only to have the feds come in and destroy state-legal crops, jailing those who have broken no state law. The government has no right to impose its will on me or my body just because it feels such things are not good for me, an informed, consenting adult.

The walls against marijuana legalization are cracking, but I doubt they will crumble in my lifetime. That saddens me, because I'd like to personally see such a massive step toward ending governmental hypocrisy and the crime it creates. Unfortunately, drug companies and their extensive campaign contributions in D.C. will pour billions into keeping that from ever happening.

And that, folks, is the real crime.

 

[tererun]

Obligatory disclaimer: I'm not a pot smoker, never have been.

I was very impressed by Dr. Gupta, not only with the article but with several interviews he has given over the past couple of days. He basically admitted to having bought into various marijuana studies done in this country without challenging the science or seeking out other scientific viewpoints. Now that he has done so, he says what so many people have said for decades: Marijuana is less harmful, more useful and safer than many prescription drugs in treating a variety of ailments.

Yes!! *fist bump!*

Although Gupta didn't go into his opinions on recreational usage, and does acknowledge that there can be some negative effects, he reiterated that he couldn't find a single documented case of marijuana causing a single death, something that cannot be said about alcohol or prescription drugs.

If marijuana was completely legalized, there is no downside. It would instantly break the backs of drug cartels for whom weed is their bread-and-butter product. It would empty out our prisons and backlogged courtrooms. If it could be legally grown, distributed, taxed and regulated like alcohol and tobacco products, the cost to consumers would be less, and the money going back to taxpayers would be significant.

This simply must be done on a federal level. It does no good for states to implement medical marijuana laws, only to have the feds come in and destroy state-legal crops, jailing those who have broken no state law. The government has no right to impose its will on me or my body just because it feels such things are not good for me, an informed, consenting adult.

The walls against marijuana legalization are cracking, but I doubt they will crumble in my lifetime. That saddens me, because I'd like to personally see such a massive step toward ending governmental hypocrisy and the crime it creates. Unfortunately, drug companies and their extensive campaign contributions in D.C. will pour billions into keeping that from ever happening.

And that, folks, is the real crime.

I am not sure how old you are, but 10 years ago I would have never thought to see a majority of people up for gay marriage being legal, and the support there is now. I figured it would have to be the courts to say so, but people are actually strongly in favor of it. The older anti-drug generation is dying and the boomers who did smoke a lot of pot in their day are becoming the big voting block. I have a feeling they will come to legalize it along with the rest of us. Also, there is huge money concerns and the people fighting the war on drugs are beginning to realize how much it is costing. Once states start seeing tax funding from legalized marijuana I have a feeling good old greed will come through and make it legal.

 

[paddymcdougall]

We have laws for a reason, and what the hell makes you think that it's ok to dump massive amounts of harmful chemicals into a society that I and my Family have to live in ? Why ? Because your'e too weak to live without a chemical crutch ?

I have the right to raise my family in a society that's not f***ing under the influence 24/7, and I have a right to expect that my kids will grow up in a society that's not awash with dangerous drugs.

You wan't to knock down your IQ 20 points, and limit your choices for a better life, for success ? Have at it, but it's going to be illegal under Federal law and MOST State laws AS IT SHOULD BE.

Stoners, with some exception, some of the stupidest people on the planet.

As I read this, I assumed you were complaining about paint with lead in it, and about the fumes from coal plants that are giving kids asthma, and about companies that have oil pipelines that break and pour oil into our water supply.

But you're complaining about POT?????

Someone smoking pot - assuming you aren't inhaling the second hand smoke - won't affect you or your family. You should be a lot more worried about the antibiotics given to animals that lead to diseases that are anti-biotic resistant; now THAT can kill your family.

 

[paddymcdougall]

That is not a good reason to be opposed to something. You do not need a variety of food. You could exist on a paste with he proper nutrients and some water. You do not need flavor to exist, but you like it even though many flavorful things are things you indulge, experiment, and harm yourself with. No one needs pot, but many people want to do it. A want is not a need, and most of our lives consist of enjoying things we want and never need. Not to mention there is a pretty good argument to be made that a person who is afraid of experience lives a lesser life just as you claim those who do experience things are weaker and lesser because it makes you feel better about your choices which you do not seem to enjoy. Your not taking something is not some form of strength which makes you better, it is simply your choice. That is your choice, but not one you should be making for others.



The people who think it is a harmful drug are gullible. It is just simply not that bad. You have been lied to and told it is, but it is pretty harmless considering some of the very legal things we do every day. It is much more harmful to the world to drive a car, not to mention driving is not necessary if you have working feet. Perhaps you should have the strength to walk everywhere.


It is actually a plant, and one that is edible. being omnivores it is one of the substances we can consume for our survival. Perhaps you are not very educated on things like science and nutrition.


Actually, alcohol is a poisonous substance. It is a sterilizing agent that kills cells. You can easily kill your4self on alcohol. it is impossible for you to kill yourself on pot. You would rupture your stomach before being able to eat enough of it to die. You would die of asphyxiation before you could smoke enough to kill yourself. SWo yes it is different than other drugs, including the OTC medications on your pharmacy shelves. Yes, that is a valid argument even if you do not like how it makes your argument silly.


They have a want to do so. You have completely deluded yourself into thinking every person who uses a drug is an addict. This really goes much more into your own desire to make yourself feel better about being you by pretending your lack of use makes you some great person. Besides, if you are great for resisting use, then actually resist use. That means there is an option for you to use. If you do not have an option to use, then you are not resisting anything and even your argument becomes false.


You are talking about an addiction. yes, people can chose to do other things, but they should also be able to chose to do pot. It doesn't harm you, and it certainly does not mean you have to do it. Your life is not effected one way or another by others having the choice to do something. Anything you enjoy in this world is a choice you make. It is fun, and we do it because we want the experience and it enhances our lives. No one is telling you you cannot do the things you enjoy. Get out of our lives, and learn to chose on your own.



You should smoke. You seem to go through a lot of crap just to tell everyone how much better you are than they are. Maybe that is your problem. Maybe if you were not trying to be everyone's nanny and to tell them how to live their lives and judge them so harshly for something that doesn't effect you they would be less irritated with you. Pot is not your problem, you are bossy. Pot would probably make you not care so much about what others are doing and make you a much more pleasant and laid back person to be around. Perhaps you have made the wrong choices in life. I would at least say stop sticking your nose into other people's recreation.


We noticed you cannot help yourself but be baggy to others. What does pro-Isreal have to do with anything? I am pretty sure I have seen some stoned jews before in my life, and that there are people who smoke in Isreal. For someone who tells us all about what a great person they are for being a teatottaler, you certainly do seem to be quite the source of irritation to the people around you which seems to be making your environment much more irritating to you. I am not sure other people are the problem in your life. You seem to want everyone to see how great you are, and seem overly willing to tell them how to live their lives. You might want to just let some things slide with others rather than trying to be everyone's mother.


You keep telling yourself all of that. I have met many drug users who are quite succesful, and are much more pleasant to be around than someone who is bossy and nanny like.By your own admission you irritate those around you, and you seem to have a need to toot your own horn quite the good deal. I could see why hanging around with a laid back stoner might be a lot more pleasant than being around your and your judgments. I do not think them having a drink is where you went wrong in your life. perhaps it is that you can never enjoy a drink or life with them.

Love this answer to LadyMoonlight! As I read her post, all I could think was "oh my gawd I'm glad I'm not related to her!" What a judgmental woman she is; so harsh; glad I don't work with her either. Wonder if she's an Ayn Rand fan on top of everything else?

Thanks for answering her so well.

 

[radcen]

Obligatory disclaimer: I'm not a pot smoker, never have been.

I was very impressed by Dr. Gupta, not only with the article but with several interviews he has given over the past couple of days. He basically admitted to having bought into various marijuana studies done in this country without challenging the science or seeking out other scientific viewpoints. Now that he has done so, he says what so many people have said for decades: Marijuana is less harmful, more useful and safer than many prescription drugs in treating a variety of ailments.

Yes!! *fist bump!*

Although Gupta didn't go into his opinions on recreational usage, and does acknowledge that there can be some negative effects, he reiterated that he couldn't find a single documented case of marijuana causing a single death, something that cannot be said about alcohol or prescription drugs.

If marijuana was completely legalized, there is no downside. It would instantly break the backs of drug cartels for whom weed is their bread-and-butter product. It would empty out our prisons and backlogged courtrooms. If it could be legally grown, distributed, taxed and regulated like alcohol and tobacco products, the cost to consumers would be less, and the money going back to taxpayers would be significant.

This simply must be done on a federal level. It does no good for states to implement medical marijuana laws, only to have the feds come in and destroy state-legal crops, jailing those who have broken no state law. The government has no right to impose its will on me or my body just because it feels such things are not good for me, an informed, consenting adult.

The walls against marijuana legalization are cracking, but I doubt they will crumble in my lifetime. That saddens me, because I'd like to personally see such a massive step toward ending governmental hypocrisy and the crime it creates. Unfortunately, drug companies and their extensive campaign contributions in D.C. will pour billions into keeping that from ever happening.

And that, folks, is the real crime.

I don't think it's the drug (pharmaceutical) companies. I think it's the politicians themselves, and by extension law enforcement. The "drug war" is a political means to gaining and keeping power. It does benefit drug companies, but that's more coincidental. Not that they're complaining, of course.

I agree with pretty much everything you say here, but the mindless and misleading rhetoric has been ramped up to such an absurdly deafening level, and the power and prestige gained has invaded so deeply, and (as evidenced by many even in this thread) so many people are gullible enough to buy into the "but it's eee-vil :scared: !!!!!" pablum that is spoon-fed to them, that there is still an uphill battle to be made if we are ever to make progress.

 

[radcen]

I am not sure how old you are, but 10 years ago I would have never thought to see a majority of people up for gay marriage being legal, and the support there is now. I figured it would have to be the courts to say so, but people are actually strongly in favor of it. The older anti-drug generation is dying and the boomers who did smoke a lot of pot in their day are becoming the big voting block. I have a feeling they will come to legalize it along with the rest of us. Also, there is huge money concerns and the people fighting the war on drugs are beginning to realize how much it is costing. Once states start seeing tax funding from legalized marijuana I have a feeling good old greed will come through and make it legal.

Back in the early 1980s I said pretty much the same thing. I predicted that by the end of the decade at least marijuana would be legal in at least one state. My prediction did not come to pass. In fact, things just got worse.

I think part of what helps now is both a combination of more people knowing it's not the great evil portrayed, and the realization by more people that our government not only can, but will, outright lie to us to achieve it's own ends.

I have more hope now, but am cautious.

 

[What if...?]

We have laws for a reason, and what the hell makes you think that it's ok to dump massive amounts of harmful chemicals into a society that I and my Family have to live in ? Why ? Because your'e too weak to live without a chemical crutch ?

I have the right to raise my family in a society that's not f***ing under the influence 24/7, and I have a right to expect that my kids will grow up in a society that's not awash with dangerous drugs.

You wan't to knock down your IQ 20 points, and limit your choices for a better life, for success ? Have at it, but it's going to be illegal under Federal law and MOST State laws AS IT SHOULD BE.

Stoners, with some exception, some of the stupidest people on the planet.

Sounds like you think you have the right to not be offended AND want everybody else to raise your kids.

I sure hope you don't drink, smoke or drink coffee. Then you'd be a hypocrite too.

 

[paddymcdougall]

I don't think it's the drug (pharmaceutical) companies. I think it's the politicians themselves, and by extension law enforcement. The "drug war" is a political means to gaining and keeping power. It does benefit drug companies, but that's more coincidental. Not that they're complaining, of course.

I agree with pretty much everything you say here, but the mindless and misleading rhetoric has been ramped up to such an absurdly deafening level, and the power and prestige gained has invaded so deeply, and (as evidenced by many even in this thread) so many people are gullible enough to buy into the "but it's eee-vil :scared: !!!!!" pablum that is spoon-fed to them, that there is still an uphill battle to be made if we are ever to make progress.

Don't forget, police depts and sheriff offices get a LOT of money from the anti-pot stuff....

 

[radcen]

Don't forget, police depts and sheriff offices get a LOT of money from the anti-pot stuff....

Oh, I don't forget. They most certainly do.

 

[Dragonfly]

The show is on right now.

Parts of it are amazing.

 

[greyhat]

The show is on right now.

Parts of it are amazing.

I concur; the sorry about that little girl made the MM issue more human IMO.

 

[Dragonfly]

I concur; the sorry about that little girl made the MM issue more human IMO.

The 5 year old girl having hundreds of seizures a week, and barely able to function, then after medical marijuana treatments she has maybe one seizure a week and has become a fully functioning and almost "normal" little girl???????

Truly fascinating.

 

[Zyphlin]

I have the right to raise my family in a society that's not f***ing under the influence 24/7, and I have a right to expect that my kids will grow up in a society that's not awash with dangerous drugs.

No, you don't. You don't have any "rights" that require OTHERS to act in a certain way to your pleasing.

 

[What if...?]

Oh please.

Do I have to post Links ?

There are multiple studies on top of studies that show how destructive Marijauana is.

What's Funny is, I'm expected to take the Word of people who are advocating the legalization of a drug that most likely THEY use.

And I'm usually told by those people, USUALLY RIGHT AFTER THEY TAKE A LONG PULL OFF OF A WATERBONG !!!!!, that the studies I post are bunk.

Friken unreal.

I'm against the dumbing down of our society. Govts know a stupid population is much easier to lie to.

Your last sentence is the ANTI drug war position in a nutshell.

 

[What if...?]

The 5 year old girl having hundreds of seizures a week, and barely able to function, then after medical marijuana treatments she has maybe one seizure a week and has become a fully functioning and almost "normal" little girl???????

Truly fascinating.

Turns out that CBD is where the magic is.

The doc didn't go into it, but CBD is the component responsible for pain relief as well.

Its not analgesic, like the pain killers we are familiar with. It is "dissociative", takes the pain from the center of ones sensorium and pushes it to the edges. Providing real relief to chronic pain sufferers without the dangers of opiates and nsaids. And in the kind of strains mentioned in the doc, doesn't even get you "high".

One thing the piece doesn't directly mention is that much of this has been "known" for decades, but the DEAs insistence on placing pot in schedule 1 prevented research from being done.

Meaning that untold numbers of kids like Charlotte have suffered needlessly.

Chronic pain sufferers have been harmed by powerful pain meds.

And now it has been determined that it inhibits cancer cell growth. And reduces brain swelling when applied after a head injury.

Tongue in cheek, but the Rastas have always called it "the healing of the nations".

 

[Tigger]

The 5 year old girl having hundreds of seizures a week, and barely able to function, then after medical marijuana treatments she has maybe one seizure a week and has become a fully functioning and almost "normal" little girl???????

Truly fascinating.

Congrats for her. Was there no other alternative treatment? I ask because I have glaucoma which also CAN be treated with MM. Mine never will be, for two reasons....

1. There are alternate treatments available.
2. My soul is worth more to me than my vision.

 

[Dragonfly]

Congrats for her. Was there no other alternative treatment? I ask because I have glaucoma which also CAN be treated with MM. Mine never will be, for two reasons....

1. There are alternate treatments available.
2. My soul is worth more to me than my vision.

Apparently nothing the medical community in the USofA had tried would work.


I know this might be the stupidest question I could ask, because I'm asking you after all, but why on Earth would your "soul" be in jeopardy for using a medicinal option that is part of "God's green earth"?

If you ingest salt, sugar, alcohol, or high fructose corn syrup, why would a plant that's far more natural than any of those be an issue with "your god"?

Jesus turned water into wine. You honestly think using any substance strictly for it's medicinal benefits would be an issue?

(I pretty much know the answers to these questions....but humor me please)

 

[What if...?]

Congrats for her. Was there no other alternative treatment? I ask because I have glaucoma which also CAN be treated with MM. Mine never will be, for two reasons....

1. There are alternate treatments available.
2. My soul is worth more to me than my vision.

Turns out that much of the health benefit from marijuana is from CBD, an element that doesn't get you "high". So your "soul" would be safe.

I don't know if CBD is the component that provides relief in glaucoma.

But in regards to your overall philosophy, there is strong evidence that humans have been using cannabis medicinally throughout much of the evolutionary period in which the "morals" you refer to were developed. And back then potency of the psychoactive components was MUCH lower.

So technically it might not even violate your "morals".

 

[Tigger]

Apparently nothing the medical community in the USofA had tried would work.

That's unfortunate. Having had a grand mal and a handful of petit mal seizures in my youth, they're no fun at all.

I know this might be the stupidest question I could ask, because I'm asking you after all, but why on Earth would your "soul" be in jeopardy for using a medicinal option that is part of "God's green earth"?

If you ingest salt, sugar, alcohol, or high fructose corn syrup, why would a plant that's far more natural than any of those be an issue with "your god"?

Just because it's on the Earth doesn't mean it's good for us or meant for us to use. I'm not a Christian, but didn't their God create the very tree that they were told NOT to eat from? Kinda indicates to me that not everything was meant to be at their disposal. I believe this life is a TEST of our soul. A test to determine whether that soul has learned enough and is willing to put that information into action sufficiently to live a moral and decent life, even if doing so makes that life less pleasant, or shorter.

Jesus turned water into wine. You honestly think using any substance strictly for it's medicinal benefits would be an issue?

Morality and Religion are two totally separate things. I do believe that using certain substances for ANY purpose, except in certain, very specific circumstances, is an issue.