Why aren't we hearing about these numbers?

[Luce]

People are looking at the virus like it's something we've never seen before and can't even wrap our heads around without government instructions. That's bullshit.

There are still people who think it's "just a cold."

 

[Paradoxical]

That I cannot catch cancer by standing next to a cancer patient? Only having been in the medical field for 4 years caring for cancer patients as well as caring for my mother and mother in law with cancer. If catching cancer from cancer patients was a thing, you would have oncology nurses and oncologists dropping like flies.

Dude. Seriously?

Not that! This>>>>>> "I people stopped whining and did what they needed to do months ago we probably could have saved 100,000 lives and our economy. We could have been nearly fully opened up and been in a workable test and trace and isolate only those needed mode."

 

[Paradoxical]

There are still people who think it's "just a cold."

It is a virus that is worse than the flu virus and culls the weak

 

[Paradoxical]

You guys were all about mauling protestors.

Any permissiveness you grant for a good reason will also be used for a bad reason.

Buckle up.

Not wearing a mask is like fire bombing buildings now?

 

[Lutherf]

There are still people who think it's "just a cold."

For about 95% of those that have had it, that's more or less what they got.

 

[JasperL]

People are looking at the virus like it's something we've never seen before and can't even wrap our heads around without government instructions. That's bullshit.

I don't know what point you were making with the NTSB stuff, so I ignored it.

What's left of your comment also doesn't make any sense. We've seen contagious diseases before but not this virus, which is why it's a "novel" virus. And we can in fact wrap our heads around it, which is why governments all over planet earth have restricted gatherings, etc. to combat the spread. We could do that without "government instructions" but we can also figure out driving drunk is stupid, and so is driving 150mph through a school zone, and so we have LAWS that prohibit those things, and we have laws against murder (we know that's bad from the 10 commandments!) and theft (I figured out it's bad without government!!), etc.... So I'm not sure what point you're making. What is bullshit?

 

[JasperL]

For about 95% of those that have had it, that's more or less what they got.

Sure, if you omit the people who went to hospital then ICU then death, then it's just like a bad cold for the rest!! Good ANSWER!!!

 

[Jack Hays]

You completely ignored both my arguments. If you don't understand them, say so. Your theory asserting a 'certain' case for undercounts is in fact stupid, because you assume there are no, zero, none, nada undercounts and only considered over counts. There will be both.

And I have no idea what articles you are talking about. You know how to link from WUWT hacks pretty well, so give me a link proving the author's case of a case for it being 'categorically true' that there are over counts in the U.S. I'm sure you cannot, but just say that, versus referring to "the articles" etc. Which one? How does this unknown article make the unknown case for it being "categorically true" that there are over counts?

Second, I know that 6% list only COVID. My point was I don't see how a death certificate listing only COVID is complete because COVID isn't actually an immediate cause of death. COVID ==> heart failure or liver failure or lung failure or stroke, or heart attack, etc. so any death certificate listing only COVID doesn't tell us how the person died and is as far as I can tell INCOMPLETE. It matters whether someone died of stroke, OR lung failure OR liver failure OR heart attack, etc.

So, you saw an argument you didn't like on a site you don't like, and you reacted emotionally rather than thoughtfully. Too bad but not really my problem. Now you're stuck with an indefensible position. The fact is that the WUWT author's point is quite sound. It doesn't depend on any article but rather on the CDC's own presentation of the data and the defenses thereof. Here's a sample:
CDC's Recent Data Claim Causes Stir, Underlines Data and ...
www.biospace.com › article › cdc-s-recent-data-claim-causes-stir-und...

To my knowledge, no one has collected data on alleged undercounts. It is likely C-19 cases were missed early, but I have a hard time believing that's been a problem in recent months. And no one cares what you think makes a death certificate complete. You can use the word "stupid" all you want, but it doesn't have any effect on the argument.



Sep 3, 2020 - Recently, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) made a regular data update on COVID-19 deaths. Unfortunately, the data ...
You visited this page on 9/25/20.

 

[JasperL]

So, you saw an argument you didn't like on a site you don't like, and you reacted emotionally rather than thoughtfully. Too bad but not really my problem. Now you're stuck with an indefensible position. The fact is that the WUWT author's point is quite sound. It doesn't depend on any article but rather on the CDC's own presentation of the data and the defenses thereof.

The point is baseless and evidence free. There's no link to anything supporting the idea that it is "categorically true" that there's an overcount in the U.S. and you haven't provided any such link to back it up.

Also, see below.

Here's a sample:
CDC's Recent Data Claim Causes Stir, Underlines Data and ...
www.biospace.com › article › cdc-s-recent-data-claim-causes-stir-und...

Great, thanks for proving my point. From that article:

Recently, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) made a regular data update on COVID-19 deaths. Unfortunately, the data, and how it was presented, was immediately misinterpreted and widely disseminated by conspiracy theorists to suggest that the actual deaths caused by COVID-19 were dramatically lower than previously reported.
...
Conspiracy theorists and people generally preferring to believe that the COVID-19 pandemic is being grossly exaggerated, interpreted that to mean that only 6% of the 153,504 reported deaths in the U.S. were really from COVID-19.

The article helpfully backs up my points nicely. It also links to a video - - and he says what everyone who's looked at the data know, which is 'excess deaths' EXCEED those attributed to COVID. So those data show an UNDERcount of deaths attributed to COVID, if anything, not an undercount, which your hack author said was "categorically true." He's an idiot, the same CT hacks referred to in your own article.

To my knowledge, no one has collected data on alleged undercounts. It is likely C-19 cases were missed early, but I have a hard time believing that's been a problem in recent months. And no one cares what you think makes a death certificate complete. You can use the word "stupid" all you want, but it doesn't have any effect on the argument.

No one is making a claim about 'recent months' but the totals. And it's not what I think makes a death certificate complete, but what the guidelines require, and it's not to list just "COVID" because that's not an immediate cause of death. COVID kills people a number of different ways. See the video I linked above. He's a doctor, he fills them out, and he backs me up.

Finally, your argument was objectively stupid because we have a recorded number and it's not perfectly accurate. There are deaths attributed to COVID that weren't, and deaths that were directly caused by COVID not counted - i.e. undercounts and over counts. Your idiotic theory ignores the undercounts. It's nonsense, and you should know better than to make such an ignorant comment.

 

[JasperL]

To my knowledge, no one has collected data on alleged undercounts. It is likely C-19 cases were missed early, but I have a hard time believing that's been a problem in recent months.

Not surprisingly, your knowledge is incomplete. E.g.

The 781,000 total deaths in the United States in the three months through May 30 were about 122,300, or nearly 19% higher, than what would normally be expected, according to the researchers. Of the 122,300 excess deaths, 95,235 were attributed to Covid-19, they said. Most of the rest of the excess deaths, researchers said, were likely related to or directly caused by the coronavirus.

That difference, the undercount you and the hack at WUWT ignore, is about 27,000. No doubt not all those are directly related to COVID. They might be deaths from people who didn't go to the hospital for fear of getting COVID or excess suicides, etc. but the point is the "excess" deaths in the U.S. FAR exceed those directly attributed to COVID, which work against the claim of the WUWT idiot.

And there's this article. I won't quote from it but as of mid-August the 'excess' was at least 16,000 higher than those attributed to COVID, and up to about 54,000 higher. Again, that directly undermines the stupid claim by the WUWT hack. The DATA (something you nor WUWT linked) show a likely undercount, not an overcount.

And no one cares what you think makes a death certificate complete.

Right, you can read the death certificate reporting guidelines here if you want. They back me up, but don't believe me - read them for yourself and tell me what I got wrong.

 

[Luther]

Politics and Pandemics don't mix and people should stop trying to mix them.

Yes, so tell the left just that(wink)

 

[Airyaman]

These numbers on the survival rate of folks who get Covid-19 came out this week from the CDC:

View attachment 67296403

I'm sorry, but with numbers like this the government (aka states) should end all mandatory shut-downs and restrictions. It's time to restore individual freedom and allow people to choose how they want to live their lives and how they want to address Covid-19.

.

Good thing we don't have any people over 70 in this country.

 

[Airyaman]

Because people of any age are as important as the next guy. Your post indicates that you think old people are expendable. Everyone's life matters.

Trumpsters are "pro life" until birth, then all bets are off.

 

[Luther]

Because killing every 20th older person is the new GOP strategy?



I guess you took it to mean we should drop all restrictions and let her and others have it. (LOL?)

You know it's possible to social distance(exception bars) without closing our economy down right?

 

[snakestretcher]

No, you haven't got it right.

The idea is that if we know which people are most vulnerable then we can work to protect them without creating a whole world of stupid for everyone else. We keep ending up in these situations because one of the core tenets of progressivism is that the people, on the whole, are dumb as stumps and need goverrnment to protect them from themselves.

200,000+ dead Americans too stupid to follow expert guidelines on how to protect themselves and others, yep, dumb as stumps. I wonder how many of them were loudmouth libertarian morons who value whatever they understand as 'freedom', over the health of their fellow citizens.

 

[snakestretcher]

Nobody is accepting the killing of the elderly and nobody expects the, or wants them, to sacrifice their lives to the virus. What we are saying, and you are ignoring, is that it’s MUCH easier to help protect the lives of the vulnerable than it is to impose and enforce absurd mandates in everyone, crash the economy and invoke panic with every news release.

Nobody is telling people that they must go out into the cruel, plague infected world, but if they choose to do so then they should not be denied that right.

Who is panicking and where? That's another dumb Trump excuse for his incompetence.

 

[Luther]

200,000+ dead Americans too stupid to follow expert guidelines on how to protect themselves and others, yep, dumb as stumps. I wonder how many of them were loudmouth libertarian morons who value whatever they understand as 'freedom', over the health of their fellow citizens.

Whats going on in England Snake?

Your cases are spiking again?

 

[Luther]

200,000+ dead Americans too stupid to follow expert guidelines on how to protect themselves and others, yep, dumb as stumps. I wonder how many of them were loudmouth libertarian morons who value whatever they understand as 'freedom', over the health of their fellow citizens.

What the heck?

Covid: Coronavirus cases in England up 60% in a week

Every case is estimated to result in between 1.2 and 1.5 further infections, government estimates find.

www.bbc.com

 

[Luther]

200,000+ dead Americans too stupid to follow expert guidelines on how to protect themselves and others, yep, dumb as stumps. I wonder how many of them were loudmouth libertarian morons who value whatever they understand as 'freedom', over the health of their fellow citizens.

Holy Shit Snake!

Covid: UK sees highest number of coronavirus cases since mass tests began

Latest figures show 6,634 new coronavirus cases across the UK, taking the total to 416,363.

www.bbc.com

 

[snakestretcher]

Holy Shit Snake!

Covid: UK sees highest number of coronavirus cases since mass tests began

Latest figures show 6,634 new coronavirus cases across the UK, taking the total to 416,363.

www.bbc.com

Yes, we can thank our conservative 'leader' for the brilliant idea to reopen schools and colleges. Now we're seeking the rates of infection being the highest among 17-24 year-olds who think they're immortal.

 

[Luther]

Yes, we can thank our conservative 'leader' for the brilliant idea to reopen schools and colleges. Now we're seeking the rates of infection being the highest among 17-24 year-olds who think they're immortal.

And who voted in this "conservative" leader of yours?

Snake, you have a lot of deaths with your amount of population

 

[snakestretcher]

And who voted in this "conservative" leader of yours?

Snake, you have a lot of deaths with your amount of population

The Conservative party membership did; just like they elected May before him. The British general public had no say in Johnson's election.

Tory leadership: Who gets to choose the UK's next prime minister?

It is not now MPs who will get to decide between Jeremy Hunt and Boris Johnson.

www.bbc.co.uk

Boris Johnson elected new Tory leader

Former London mayor will succeed Theresa May as Britain’s next prime minister after beating Jeremy Hunt

www.theguardian.com

 

[Luther]

The Conservative party membership did; just like they elected May before him. The British people had no say in Johnson's election.

Boris Johnson elected new Tory leader

Former London mayor will succeed Theresa May as Britain’s next prime minister after beating Jeremy Hunt

www.theguardian.com

But who put the conservative party in power?


Themselves?

 

[snakestretcher]

But who put the conservative party in power?


Themselves?

The same sort of idiots who elected Trump in the US. That said even Johnson is more acceptable than Corbyn, his opponent, was.

 

[Luther]

The same sort of idiots who elected Trump in the US. That said even Johnson is more acceptable than Corbyn, his opponent, was.

You mean Great Britain is full of idiots?