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Why are those on the left tolerant of everything, save for christians and Jews?

Columbisite, I will say this, I also left room in the post you referred to for a moment of silence for atheists. This means those of faith can reflect and pray, and those who don't hold a faith in god can reflect or think about what the situation means to them. That doesn't seem unfair does it? Now to be fair, one day the moment of silence is observed, the next day maybe a christian prayer, then possibly an Islamic one, or a Jewish one, and everyone wins.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Columbisite, I will say this, I also left room in the post you referred to for a moment of silence for atheists. This means those of faith can reflect and pray, and those who don't hold a faith in god can reflect or think about what the situation means to them. That doesn't seem unfair does it? Now to be fair, one day the moment of silence is observed, the next day maybe a christian prayer, then possibly an Islamic one, or a Jewish one, and everyone wins.

I don't agree with having a moment of silence in the 1st place. Kids aren't learning enough as it is, we don't need to set aside time for something that can be done any time students want to when they want in the schools. Even if I were to agree with it I'd still say you're unfair. "a moment of silence for the atheists every once in a while should be acceptable IMHO" Well, no it wouldn't be. By only giving Atheists a moment of silnece now and then while accomodating religious people all the time is no where near fair. Your last idea is truly horrendous when thought about in detail. Let's say we have one day for Christian prayer. What kind will it be? It's certain that some Christians aren't going to be satisfied if it Catholics always doing it or certain Protestants. Don't forget all the sects within each religion that wouldn't agree with the way prayer is being done. 5 days a week with each given to a religion for prayer swould simply leave a lot of religions out, particularly minority religions.. What about a day for Wiccas? Mormons? Scientologists? etc, etc. Just let kids pray, sit silent or do whatever while they're in school. There's no need for a special moment. It's their right as long as it doesn't disrupt class
 
Why are those on the left tolerant of everything, save for christians and Jews?

Real Jews and real Christians pose a threat to homosexual behavior, beastiality, pedophiling,abortion, and sedition.These are the things the left loves.
 
jamesrage said:
Real Jews and real Christians pose a threat to homosexual behavior, beastiality, pedophiling,abortion, and sedition.These are the things the left loves.

You're post is devoid of reason, and not surprising in the least. Like Thomas Paine said, "Reasoning with one who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to a dead man."
 
You're post is devoid of reason, and not surprising in the least. Like Thomas Paine said, "Reasoning with one who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to a dead man."

I listed what the liberals are for and why left opposes Christianity and Judiasm.
It would make sense that if you are for certian behaviors that you would want to remove the voices of certian individuals.
 
galenrox said:
I am so ****ing sick of this conservative retards posting retarded threads with titles ... .... not ****ing going there in the first place.

So if you still think that all this stupid **** about liberals, I'd reccomend you get away from the computer before you hurt yourself, THE POWER CORD IS NOT SPAGETTI!

What a kick-ass rant! I totally understand. The whole anti-liberal thing is just a major cop-out. I mean, if want to point a finger at someone, point it at someone who deserves it... Like the right-wing pigeons from outer space.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by galenrox
I am so ****ing sick of this conservative retards posting retarded threads with titles ... .... not ****ing going there in the first place.

Well if the ACLU,moveon.org and the other scumbag liberal orginizations were not liberal then I guess the title of the thread would not have the word liberal in it.
 
Hey lets chisel away at that block of granite with the Ten Commandments on it instead of each other, okay? That is, if you think that block of granite is significant enough to whack away at.

I haven't read the entire thread and others no doubt will have already said some of this.

But that letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists was in response to a letter from them. They were afraid that the U.S. Constitution was not specific in protecting their inalienable rights to worship and practice their religious beliefs as they chose. He assured them that the the intent of the Constitution was to build a 'wall of separation' between the power of the government and the Church, and that Congress was forbidden to establish any law that would favor or punish any religion or mandate how religion must be demonstrated. And he, as the President, could act only by the authority of Congress and the Constitution and thus was also prohibited from interfering with religious beliefs or practices in any way.

In other words, Jefferson was assuring the Baptists that they were safe from their governmnent.

The 'wall of separation' was never intended to extend to the states at that time. Many of the colonies were established by people of faith who had absolutely no intention of allowing any faith but their own to be practiced within the borders of that colony. (It is one of America's great ironies that the first settlers on the east coast came here in search of religious freedom and then denied that to everybody else.) Other colonies were established with specific intent to allow anybody and everybody to come. Our founders forged a Constitution that accommodated them all. It would have been unthinkable to have ordered anybody to remove a religious statue or piece of art or even a Bible from public property.

For the next two hundred plus years up to the last two or three decades, with a free exceptions here and there, America has grown and evolved and has incorporated virtually every known religious faith that live together more or less peacefully.

but in the last two or three decades, some again decided that their particular faith or lack thereof should have precedence over all others. That included a small group of those who profess athiesm. (We won't debate whether athiesm is a religion at this time please.) And once that started, and the ACLU became involved, works of art, historical symbols, or anything else remotely or possibly religious came under attack. Many southwestern counties, for instance, included a Cross, symbolic of the Spanish friars who had helped settle the area, on their seals. The ACLU has brought suit to force removal of most of them.

As CNRedd asked, a block of granite with words on it is a work of art, not a religious symbol. Are people who are not of JudeoChristian heritage so afraid of words chiseled on a block of granite that it constitutes an establishment of religion? Or is it a kind of intolerance that some can't bear to look at them?

Nobody sees how absurd all that is?

Personally I think even non-believers would be much better off defending and protecting those people of faith among them that are running the thrift shops, manning the soup lines, staffing the shelters, and otherwise taking care of societies poorest. Without them we all are going to pay much more in taxes for a far more expensive and less efficient government to take over that duty.

I'm right there with you that somebody trying to force their religion on you is a violation of your privacy. But unless those religious folk rope, tie, and force you to listen to their sermons, they aren't going to hurt you. And a little more tolerance would sure make this a much more pleasant world to live in.
 
Thomas Jefferson was not the only founding father.
Quote:
We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments.


James Madison

Quote:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
John Adams

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817]


Quote:
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.
Samuel Adams
 
Yes most of the founders were devoutly religious men. And most, as Jefferson did, were determined that the government would have no power to tell people when, how, where, or what form of religion they would embrace. They certainly never intended that religion not be a part of government or kept away from government.
 
Columbusite said:
I don't agree with having a moment of silence in the 1st place. Kids aren't learning enough as it is, we don't need to set aside time for something that can be done any time students want to when they want in the schools. Even if I were to agree with it I'd still say you're unfair. "a moment of silence for the atheists every once in a while should be acceptable IMHO" Well, no it wouldn't be. By only giving Atheists a moment of silnece now and then while accomodating religious people all the time is no where near fair. Your last idea is truly horrendous when thought about in detail. Let's say we have one day for Christian prayer. What kind will it be? It's certain that some Christians aren't going to be satisfied if it Catholics always doing it or certain Protestants. Don't forget all the sects within each religion that wouldn't agree with the way prayer is being done. 5 days a week with each given to a religion for prayer swould simply leave a lot of religions out, particularly minority religions.. What about a day for Wiccas? Mormons? Scientologists? etc, etc. Just let kids pray, sit silent or do whatever while they're in school. There's no need for a special moment. It's their right as long as it doesn't disrupt class
Okay, so now we're getting somewhere, you have a very concise argument on your position, so I'll answer in kind. A moment of silence and a moment of prayer, two radically different things, to be sure, acomplish pretty much the same thing...that being reflection and thought. Now, here's the kicker, if all faiths within a community get a fair representation(and we will include lack thereof) then I don't see a problem, atheists currently are a minority, so a moment of silence, let's say once every month and a half at athletic events and once a week during school invocations should be fair because of the proportion of representation, also, since all in a community are NOT of a certain faith, naturally, they can be represented at times and to say this isn't fair is a bit of a stretch. The big problem I see is that atheists currently are using a misinterpretation of the constitution to keep all speech they agree with out of earshot. I'll ask, what is more unfair, everyone getting a moment representing their belief, or a severe minority pushing the majority view into the area of illigitimacy?
 
AlbqOwl said:
Hey lets chisel away at that block of granite with the Ten Commandments on it instead of each other, okay? That is, if you think that block of granite is significant enough to whack away at.

I haven't read the entire thread and others no doubt will have already said some of this.

But that letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists was in response to a letter from them. They were afraid that the U.S. Constitution was not specific in protecting their inalienable rights to worship and practice their religious beliefs as they chose. He assured them that the the intent of the Constitution was to build a 'wall of separation' between the power of the government and the Church, and that Congress was forbidden to establish any law that would favor or punish any religion or mandate how religion must be demonstrated. And he, as the President, could act only by the authority of Congress and the Constitution and thus was also prohibited from interfering with religious beliefs or practices in any way.

In other words, Jefferson was assuring the Baptists that they were safe from their governmnent.

The 'wall of separation' was never intended to extend to the states at that time. Many of the colonies were established by people of faith who had absolutely no intention of allowing any faith but their own to be practiced within the borders of that colony. (It is one of America's great ironies that the first settlers on the east coast came here in search of religious freedom and then denied that to everybody else.) Other colonies were established with specific intent to allow anybody and everybody to come. Our founders forged a Constitution that accommodated them all. It would have been unthinkable to have ordered anybody to remove a religious statue or piece of art or even a Bible from public property.

For the next two hundred plus years up to the last two or three decades, with a free exceptions here and there, America has grown and evolved and has incorporated virtually every known religious faith that live together more or less peacefully.

but in the last two or three decades, some again decided that their particular faith or lack thereof should have precedence over all others. That included a small group of those who profess athiesm. (We won't debate whether athiesm is a religion at this time please.) And once that started, and the ACLU became involved, works of art, historical symbols, or anything else remotely or possibly religious came under attack. Many southwestern counties, for instance, included a Cross, symbolic of the Spanish friars who had helped settle the area, on their seals. The ACLU has brought suit to force removal of most of them.

As CNRedd asked, a block of granite with words on it is a work of art, not a religious symbol. Are people who are not of JudeoChristian heritage so afraid of words chiseled on a block of granite that it constitutes an establishment of religion? Or is it a kind of intolerance that some can't bear to look at them?

Nobody sees how absurd all that is?

Personally I think even non-believers would be much better off defending and protecting those people of faith among them that are running the thrift shops, manning the soup lines, staffing the shelters, and otherwise taking care of societies poorest. Without them we all are going to pay much more in taxes for a far more expensive and less efficient government to take over that duty.

I'm right there with you that somebody trying to force their religion on you is a violation of your privacy. But unless those religious folk rope, tie, and force you to listen to their sermons, they aren't going to hurt you. And a little more tolerance would sure make this a much more pleasant world to live in.
Great post 5/5
 
robert mccoin said:
The attack on the ten comandments is just another example of how anything representative of God is under the blitz of the A C L U and many of those that support it.Don't get me wrong,I feel that the A C L U is an important orginization, and is a potential force of good, but I think it has gone astray with it's obvious attacks on the cross and the ten comandments

Your religion has attacked and destroyed indigenous spiritualities across the globe for the best part of 2,000 years and you have the nerve to bleat about this? Unbelieveable!:confused:
 
What the Hell would you care about indigenous people and their spiritualities?
 
Aryan Imperium said:
Your religion has attacked and destroyed indigenous spiritualities across the globe for the best part of 2,000 years and you have the nerve to bleat about this? Unbelieveable!:confused:

What's up with your quote at the bottom?

I'm a big Sixers fan, but I don't remember him saying anything like that!
 
vergiss said:
What the Hell would you care about indigenous people and their spiritualities?

I am a member of a minority racial and religious group-Odininism.
Therefore I care a great deal about the devastation that Judeo-xtianity has wrought within all the Aryan lands.
 
Originally posted by robert mccoin:
The attack on the ten comandments is just another example of how anything representative of God is under the blitz of the A C L U and many of those that support it.Don't get me wrong,I feel that the A C L U is an important orginization, and is a potential force of good, but I think it has gone astray with it's obvious attacks on the cross and the ten comandments
The Ten Commandments are a good common sense approach on how to live ones life. But I don't want my god-damn tax dollars being used to discuss them by my elected leaders. They should do it on their own personal dime, not mine!
 
LaMidRighter said:
Okay, so now we're getting somewhere, you have a very concise argument on your position, so I'll answer in kind. A moment of silence and a moment of prayer, two radically different things, to be sure, acomplish pretty much the same thing...that being reflection and thought. Now, here's the kicker, if all faiths within a community get a fair representation(and we will include lack thereof) then I don't see a problem, atheists currently are a minority, so a moment of silence, let's say once every month and a half at athletic events and once a week during school invocations should be fair because of the proportion of representation, also, since all in a community are NOT of a certain faith, naturally, they can be represented at times and to say this isn't fair is a bit of a stretch. The big problem I see is that atheists currently are using a misinterpretation of the constitution to keep all speech they agree with out of earshot. I'll ask, what is more unfair, everyone getting a moment representing their belief, or a severe minority pushing the majority view into the area of illigitimacy?

You can already pray whenever you want. Nobody is saying you can't and if they do they are wrong. Things are already fair so there is simply no reason for a moment of silence/prayer.
 
jamesrage said:
I listed what the liberals are for and why left opposes Christianity and Judiasm.
It would make sense that if you are for certian behaviors that you would want to remove the voices of certian individuals.

Like Thomas Paine said, "Reasoning with one who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to a dead man."
 
Billo_Really said:
The Ten Commandments are a good common sense approach on how to live ones life. But I don't want my god-damn tax dollars being used to discuss them by my elected leaders. They should do it on their own personal dime, not mine!

I agree with you on taxes, but not on the 10 commandments being common sense. Only a few are while the rest are of no practical use like "Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk". Yes, that is one of them. Some Christians want them put up but they can't even agree on which set!
 
To AlbqOwl (for some reason your reply did not show up on the baord) who said "Nor is there any harm in having one." (moment of silence)

Yes, there is harm in having one. It is simply too easy to turn that moment of silence into a moment of specificly Christian prayer. In which case you end up with a school that has mandatory prayer which is unconstitutional. There is absolutely no reason for a moment of silence when you can pray/reflect on your own whenever you'd like. The only reason would be to sneak school led prayer into schools which would be very easy where virtually all students are Christian.
 
Columbusite said:
To AlbqOwl (for some reason your reply did not show up on the baord) who said "Nor is there any harm in having one." (moment of silence)

Yes, there is harm in having one. It is simply too easy to turn that moment of silence into a moment of specificly Christian prayer. In which case you end up with a school that has mandatory prayer which is unconstitutional. There is absolutely no reason for a moment of silence when you can pray/reflect on your own whenever you'd like. The only reason would be to sneak school led prayer into schools which would be very easy where virtually all students are Christian.

It's easy to turn playful scuffling into a city-wide riot too or a beer into a full fledged drinking problem. Does that mean the original act was harmful or should not be permitted because it might get out of hand?

A few minutes of silence at the beginning of the school day will be a prompt to pray only to those children who pray. The others can use it to fashion spit wads or write a note to pass or look out the window if they want. For the life of me I cannot see how that is in any way threatening to anybody, young or old. But the net result is a calmer and more focused class at the end of that moment of silence.

I'm quite strongly in favor of it.
 
AlbqOwl said:
It's easy to turn playful scuffling into a city-wide riot too or a beer into a full fledged drinking problem. Does that mean the original act was harmful or should not be permitted because it might get out of hand?

Great point...Patriot Act is a perfect example of future paranoia...
 
AlbqOwl said:
It's easy to turn playful scuffling into a city-wide riot too or a beer into a full fledged drinking problem. Does that mean the original act was harmful or should not be permitted because it might get out of hand?

A few minutes of silence at the beginning of the school day will be a prompt to pray only to those children who pray. The others can use it to fashion spit wads or write a note to pass or look out the window if they want. For the life of me I cannot see how that is in any way threatening to anybody, young or old. But the net result is a calmer and more focused class at the end of that moment of silence.

I'm quite strongly in favor of it.

This is in no way comparable to the examples you mentioned. Prayer is already allowed without the possibility of some schools turning it into mandatory prayer. So kids that want to can pray already can pray. I still don't see the point.
 
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