robert mccoin said:
Were not the founders of this great nation God centered people?
A good deal were Christians, yes. There were also a number of Deists and Unitarians. Those Christians who took part in the founding document of our laws, the Constitution, apparantly weren't very conservative ones. Thankfully, they left out any mention of God, Christianity, the Bible, Jesus, etc. You have to remember that before this the US colonies WERE ruled by the Bible and had laws that ordered the death of those who denied Christ, blasphemed, etc. The Bible had well over a 1000 years to show itself worthy of being a good book to found a country on. It would seem that according to the Constitution our founders came up with that they didn't think it was such a great idea. If you've read about the history of Christian Europe, you too would agree. Unless you'd rather live in the Dark Ages.
robert mccoin said:
It seems that all things holy are under attack by the leftest ACLU, marraige, birth, prayer,the ten comandments witch by the way are the law of God.How would we know right from wrong without a standard? The ten comandments are the standard that we all should aspire to. Just my opinion.
1st of all, the ACLU simply does their best to uphold our Constitution, not the Bible. Considering that, I'd say they've done an overall good job. Let's take a look at all of these things which you claim are "under attack".
Marriage? Umm, just because the government recognizes same-sex marriage (this is what you were referring to, correct?) doesn't mean your church has to. In fact, Atheists are allowed to marry each other, AND with Christians no less! So I guess that means that your church has had to marry Atheists against it's will, right? Not to mention the fact that the 14th amendment says that all American citizens are to be treated equally under the law. This shouldn't even be subject to debate, gay people should have had marriage rights by default. Oh, and if you're one of those people who says, "Let the people vote on it!" I'll let you know that if that had been the case with interracial marriage we would still have official segregation in the South. If you don't believe me just have a look at these
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/11/03/election/ballots/interracial.marriage/
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/07/alabama.interracial/
and take into account that this happened with desegregation being imposed, and rightly so. Note that neither was a landslide victory to end interracial marriage bans with Alabama in 2000 having "59 percent to 41 percent, with 58 percent of the voted counted." and "In South Carolina, about 62 percent of voters favored lifting the ban." in 1998. We still have a long way to go.
As far as birth, I just don't like abortion and I don't most pro choice people do either. This is a complicated situation and I'll just sum it up by saying we need to lower the number of abortions as much as possible with good education and without it being prevented by law. If their were a law that banned abortion that would just make matters worse. For example, teen pregnancy is a big problem in the inner cities among black girls and if abortion were outlawed I can tell you right now, not enough white people are willing to adopt those babies because they are black. It is sad, but true.
I hope you know prayer was never taken out of school and this just shows how low some Christians think of God, that a piece of legislation banning schools from leading prayer has effectively kicked God out of all schools all over the country. Their God is powerful enough to create a universe in less than a week, but powerless to get back in schools. I'm surprised he hasn't come up with a skeleton key to get into every single school. But seriously, some Christians just love to lie to satisfy their persecution complex. Prayer is legal in school and reading the Bible is too given you do it on your own time while class is not in session. You
wish you were under attack. Not to mention Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret....". Might want to crack open that book you claim has all the secrets to the universe and is considered by Christians inspired by God. Off topic, I don't understand how so many Christians don't even bother reading their Bible. I would think that being the word of God and all that they might want to know what it says as opposed to having a preacher read a few lines and say what he believes they mean.
Ah, the 10 Commandments. Now which version is it that we should have displayed? Protestant? Catholic? Jewish? Not to mention that NOT having the 10 Commandments in a governemnt building is not attacking you. That is simply doing what the government should be doing, remain neutral on the matter. I don't have the 10 Commandments posted anywhere in my home, so I guess I'm brazenly attacking the faith of every Christian in this country by not doing so. By the way, you say they are the "law of God". Well, if we are going to follow God's law, which one would that be? The Muslim one? Zoroastrian? Hindu God(s)? Am I supposed to just assume your God is the right one? Let's say I actually agreed that this is a Christian nation. I still must ask; Which one? Catholic? Presbyterian? Episcopal? Methodist? Amish? MCC? Baptist? Southern Baptist? Christian Reconstructionist? As you can see this just becomes more of a headache than you would have thought. Now the 10 Commandments as a moral standard are not much to aspire to. Laws are very complex and take into account so many variables. Good laws cannot be simple. "Thou shalt not kill", although it sounds nice, doesn't cut it. You can't kill what? Anything? Can't kill in self defense or step on an ant? Not only that, but long after the Bible was used as a book of law a lot of killing took place. Lot's of heretics, apostates, witches, fellow Christians, people of other religions etc. Apparantly there's a lot of wiggle room. The 10th is one that is a perfect example of the worthlessness of the 10 Commandments (except for 6-8, but as I pointed out sorely lacking in specifics), "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." So slavery isn't bad, it didn't even make the top ten, but don't you DARE go and steal someone else's slave. The 1st four are bad too, they are just how to worship God, and an egotistical, jealous one at that. Values like not killing, stealing, and committing adultery, which are all worthwhile do not need to have divine grounding to be put into effect and followed. Why is this? Reason, is the answer. We don't want to be killed, have something stolen from us, or have a significant other cheat on us. The ones that do need to be based on the divine are the absoluty useless ones. Are we to enforce worship of some version of the Christian God, throw people in jail for making idols, taking the Lord's name in vain, and punish those who don't "rest" on Sunday with a good stoning? We as a country tossed those religious laws out and in their place have appealed to reason to create the founding document for the 1st secular government in the world which was also the 1st in which "liberty" had any meaning, though we have had to work on living up to our Constitution's promises it is certainly a standard by which we should all live by.
