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Who else feels like we are being invaded?

America is being invaded, and our economy is being drained by illegal aliens and their anchor babies. Amnesty will just bring more illegals. Incarceration with deportation gives illegals the message they can understand. Get out and stay out.

We are deporting more people under Obama than we ever have before in the nation's history, we are agressively going after employers for the first time in the nation's history, and the actual number of undocumented immigrants in the country has been falling for 3 years in a row. So I don't think it is sensible to call it an invasion and imply that we aren't doing anything about it. That's just spin from the anti-immigrant crowd.

As for your party analogy, it doesn't hold up. Living here isn't a party where you give out free stuff. Illegal immigrants come here to work and they work for very little money. We generate enormous profits off of that arrangements which allows companies to expand and create more of the higher paying jobs citizens are interested in too. Some estimates are that if we were to deport every undocumented immigrant tomorrow we would lose around $1 trillion a year from our GDP. Some entire industries would cease to be able to operate. Now, you can debate the economics, but to just try to compare it to a party isn't compelling in the face of all that.
 
We are deporting more people under Obama than we ever have before in the nation's history, we are agressively going after employers for the first time in the nation's history, and the actual number of undocumented immigrants in the country has been falling for 3 years in a row. So I don't think it is sensible to call it an invasion and imply that we aren't doing anything about it. That's just spin from the anti-immigrant crowd.

.

Care to explain why Obama has taken Arizona to court over its employer sanction law? Basically AZ would suspend a companies business license, fine them, for knowingly hiring an illegal alien. This is not the illegal immigration law SB1070. This Administration sents out mixed messages regarding illegal immigration.

You think maybe because the economy tanked may has something to do with less illegal immigration instead of the Obama's policies? There are less jobs in the US, Mexico economy is doing a bit better.

Yes its true that some of the illegal aliens are those that have overstayed their visas. Other threads have shown links that the economic impact of illegal aliens in the US is not as great as you think it is.
 
Care to explain why Obama has taken Arizona to court over its employer sanction law?

Because immigration policy is federal. States can't go around setting their own immigration laws. Not to mention AZ's rash of racial profiling in the name of immigration enforcement, which of course the constitution requires the president to combat.

You think maybe because the economy tanked may has something to do with less illegal immigration instead of the Obama's policies?

Definitely.
 
Theres alot of a kind of bashing of the author of of this thread going on....while I dont exactly agree with him totally...I do agree that illegal immigration has to stop for a variety of reasons....none of which are racist or bigoted in intent.

First of all its illegal duh....second we just cant afford it...and no one can deny the criminal element that goes along with it...and that we have 45 million americans without health care and WE PAY TO DELIVER 400,000 illegal immigrant babies a year..and that includes any additional conditions..
We cant afford illegal immigration anymore and no one can deny its costing us hundreds of billions....along with helping the decline of american wages along which the rich love.....
 
Because immigration policy is federal. States can't go around setting their own immigration laws. Not to mention AZ's rash of racial profiling in the name of immigration enforcement, which of course the constitution requires the president to combat..

Seem the US Supreme Court backed AZ on this one. So maybe the President and Holder are not as up on law as you so believe. Sorry, but your wrong on this one. Obama and Holder overstepped.
Supreme Court upholds Arizona employer sanctions law

So can anyone from the left debate illegal immigration without using the tiresome "racist" defense to anything that goes against what they believe? I have read SB1070 and found nothing that is racist. It mearly allows State/local LE to assist in immigration enforcement. LE must have a legal reason to check someones immigration status. They cannot just stop someone without having another legal reason for doing so. Even then there must be indications the person is an illegal allien. But you can spin whatever you want. The SC will most likely ultimately decide. Many thought the employer sanction bill would be found unconstitutional by the SC. They were wrong. Time will tell on SB1070.

Maybe Obama and Holder should work with the States instead of taking them to court. There is a willing workforce to assist in enforcing immigration laws. Too bad they just want to fight the States.
 
Seem the US Supreme Court backed AZ on this one. So maybe the President and Holder are not as up on law as you so believe. Sorry, but your wrong on this one. Obama and Holder overstepped.
Supreme Court upholds Arizona employer sanctions law

No, no, you're mixing things up. That case was the Chamber of Commerce v. Whitting. It was the private business lobbying organization the Chamber of Commerce that sued on that one, not the DoJ.

The DoJ case is U.S. v. Arizona. US v. AZ is about 1070, not the employer thing. The district court overturned most of 1070, the 9th circuit court unanimously upheld the district court decision. The supreme court hasn't announced yet whether it will review the decision of the 9th or not.

So can anyone from the left debate illegal immigration without using the tiresome "racist" defense to anything that goes against what they believe? I have read SB1070 and found nothing that is racist.

Certainly nobody wrote in there explicitly racist statements or something. I don't think anybody is arguing that they did.

You might be missing the history. Sheriff Arpaio was empowered by ICE to enforce immigration law at one point in time. He was blatantly engaging in over the top racial profiling. He called them "immigration sweeps". What he was doing was going into hispanic neighborhoods and pulling over every hispanic his officers saw under fake pretenses (his most common was "poorly lit license plate"), and then hauling them down to the jail and holding them there while they checked their immigration status, which could take days. Clear cut racial profiling and clearly a violation of the US constitution. So, ICE had to strip him of his power to enforce immigration law. He is the only local law enforcement official ever stripped of that power by ICE. AZ passed 1070 almost immediately after ICE had to take that step. 1070 was designed to restore that power to Arpaio and start his operation running again.
 
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Mexico ceded this land to us. They said "here, have this . . . " and signed on the line.

Ironic - don't you think?

Ok - so that's a simplified version of history.
 
No, no, you're mixing things up. That case was the Chamber of Commerce v. Whitting. It was the private business lobbying organization the Chamber of Commerce that sued on that one, not the DoJ. The DoJ sued over 1070 and thus far the courts have sided with the DoJ on that.



Certainly nobody wrote in there explicitly racist statements or something. I don't think anybody is arguing that they did.

You might be missing the history. Sheriff Arpaio was empowered by ICE to enforce immigration law at one point in time. He was blatantly engaging in over the top racial profiling. He called them "immigration sweeps". What he was doing was going into hispanic neighborhoods and pulling over every hispanic his officers saw under fake pretenses (his most common was "poorly lit license plate"), and then hauling them down to the jail and holding them there while they checked their immigration status, which could take days. Clear cut racial profiling and clearly a violation of the US constitution. So, ICE had to strip him of his power to enforce immigration law. He is the only local law enforcement official ever stripped of that power by ICE. AZ passed 1070 almost immediately after ICE had to take that step. 1070 was designed to restore that power to Arpaio and start his operation running again.

I am not confused. Been in Az since 89.

Supreme Court Upholds Arizona Employer Sanctions Law : NPR
"Business interests and civil liberties groups challenged the law, backed by the Obama administration."

Ok, I will concede that it was business interests. Even NPR reported it that the suit was "backed" by Obama. So our President used an end around to support it.

It is your spin on MCSO. Have you look at newscasts of showing people crossing the border illegally from Mexico? If you had to look for them, where would you look for them in Arizona? You also misrespresent SB1070. Of all the sweeps MCSO has done, they have had only one case where the courts found violations. Not to bad of a percentage in my books.

Why do you support illegal aliens in this country? Guess your ok with the invation of illegal aliens. I am not.

Do you not think that the Feds should partner with the States on this issue? Living in AZ, I can say while some things are better, the feds continue to do a poor job in dealing with illegal immigration.
 
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I am not confused. Been in Az since 89.

Supreme Court Upholds Arizona Employer Sanctions Law : NPR
"Business interests and civil liberties groups challenged the law, backed by the Obama administration."

Ok, I will concede that it was business interests. Even NPR reported it that the suit was "backed" by Obama. So our President used an end around to support it.

Yeah, the DoJ gave some support to the Chamber on it. The supreme court asked the DoJ to file a brief on the question of whether or not they should review the case and the DoJ's brief said yes, which was what the Chamber wanted. But that's about it. To characterize it as the DoJ not being up on the law or overstepping or whatever is silly. They didn't sue AZ over it, all they did was respond to the request of the supreme court saying that they thought the matter was important enough to warrant their review. It was the politically conservative Chamber of Commerce's suit. The DoJ is winning their suit over 1070. 1070 is the big deal, the Chamber of Commerce suit was a minor sideshow based on a more questionable legal foundation.

It is your spin on MCSO. Have you look at newscasts of showing people crossing the border illegally from Mexico?

Seriously, you're going to toss out some sensationalist piece you saw on the local news into a real policy debate?

The reality is that the number of undocumented immigrants in the US has been declining for 3 years in a row. Period. All the hype doesn't change that one bit.

Why do you support illegal aliens in this country? Guess your ok with the invation of illegal aliens. I am not.

I support the constitution and I oppose racial profiling. If the constitution is being violated and racial profiling is being used, that is bad regardless of who they are targeting. Even if they were violating the constitution and using racial profiling to try to catch child molesters, it wouldn't make it any more acceptable, so certainly using those techniques to try to catch undocumented immigrants isn't acceptable.

Do you not think that the Feds should partner with the States on this issue?

No, absolutely they should. And they do, extensively. Like I said, out of all the state and local law enforcement organizations working with ICE on immigration enforcement, only Arpaio has been stripped of that power. He went way over the line. The constitution does not allow the federal government to tolerate that kind of flagrant racial profiling.
 
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tea:
we will agree to disagree.

My point about the news coverage of crossers is look at what they look like. (dress, etc). You brought up the sweeps in hispanic communities. Where would you look for illegal aliens who crossed from the Mexican border?. In high end Fountain Hills or known hispanic communities?
Again, read 1070, nothing in it promotes racial profiling. that is your spin.

The Arizona law is very carefully crafted to restate — in many ways verbatim — existing federal law. Arizona's SB 1070 makes it a misdemeanor, in the state of Arizona, to enter the state from a foreign country without proper documentation. It specifically and statutorily prohibits racial profiling/discrimination by any state or local law enforcement official or government agent.

Five states have introduced legislation similar to Arizona’s law, and 20 others are reportedly considering it.

1070 would make it it a state crime for any foreign resident of Arizona to fail to carry federally-issued immigration documents at all times. Federal law requires that such documents be carried at all times, but federal officials do not enforce it.

I would not say DOJ is winning against 1070. My take is the lower courts want the SC to rule on it.
 
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My point about the news coverage of crossers is look at what they look like. (dress, etc). You brought up the sweeps in hispanic communities. Where would you look for illegal aliens who crossed from the Mexican border?. In high end Fountain Hills or known hispanic communities?

They can look wherever they think they will find them, but the constitution, not to mention common decency, don't allow them to trump up reasons to haul people in to jail based on their race.

Again, read 1070, nothing in it promotes racial profiling. that is your spin.

Again, I'm not arguing that they explicitly wrote in openly racist provisions into 1070. Obviously.

I would not say DOJ is winning against 1070. My take is the lower courts want the SC to rule on it.

Sure they're winning. They won the trial, they won the appeal. Now the supreme court may decline cert (they decline cert like 99% of the time) and then it's over and the DoJ won. Or the supreme court may grant cert (given that it is a suit against a state this is reasonably likely), in which case the supreme court will hear the case, but it is totally clear cut that 1070 is a violation of the supremacy clause. The supreme court has ruled in the past that states can't regulate immigration. Honestly, it is so clear cut that I have to believe that the legislature in AZ knew when they passed it that it would never actually be allowed to go into effect. At least some of them must have gone to law school, or certainly at least they have access to lawyers, and this is something you learn like in the first month or two of law school...
 
We are deporting more people under Obama than we ever have before in the nation's history, we are agressively going after employers for the first time in the nation's history, and the actual number of undocumented immigrants in the country has been falling for 3 years in a row. So I don't think it is sensible to call it an invasion and imply that we aren't doing anything about it. That's just spin from the anti-immigrant crowd.

As for your party analogy, it doesn't hold up. Living here isn't a party where you give out free stuff. Illegal immigrants come here to work and they work for very little money. We generate enormous profits off of that arrangements which allows companies to expand and create more of the higher paying jobs citizens are interested in too. Some estimates are that if we were to deport every undocumented immigrant tomorrow we would lose around $1 trillion a year from our GDP. Some entire industries would cease to be able to operate. Now, you can debate the economics, but to just try to compare it to a party isn't compelling in the face of all that.

I think we would all like to know what the real statistics are on illegal immigration. I suspect politicians hide the real numbers. Most often I have heard the figure 11,000,000 to 12,000,000 illegal aliens in the United States. Wiki says the figure could be as high as $20,000,000. Illegal immigrant population of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The cost to American taxpayers is about $113,000,000,000 a year. http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=23198&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1741 It has been estimated that America could deport 12,000,000 illegal aliens for $296,000,000,000 over five years. By all means yes, this is a bargain.

While there are a number of estimates around illegal aliens seem to be holding 7,000,000 jobs, and some of these are elevated positions in middle management. In the past presidents Eisenhower, Truman, and Hoover deported to get these jobs for veterans and those unemployed by the depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback We might want to think again before we ignore these jobs, a berry picker in Georgia can make $25,000 a year!

As to the money illegals send out of the United States, CBS reported that it could be $30,000,000,000 a year. That is money straight out of our economy. To some South American countries this represents their second highest source of income. Bottom line is we have one in five Americans living below the poverty line. When we get all of their lives of our citizens on their way, and provide college educations for those who want them, we can give a thought to illegal aliens.

Please back up your trillion dollar a year figure. My readings indicate we are lucky to get $7 billion back in taxes and Social Security.

The United States has been promising African Americans for nearly 150 years a better life. African Americans did not sneak into the United States to steal a a livelihood. In fact most were brought here against their will. When we have satisfied all their needs we can consider non-citizens. I am very impressed with what I have been reading about Chicago Urban Prep, a charter school giving African American men an opportunity for college. http://www.urbanprep.org/ They achieve 100% college acceptance. This is the kind of thing America should be investing in, not border busting, non-reciprocating, resource depleters.
 
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I think we would all like to know what the real statistics are on illegal immigration. I suspect politicians hide the real numbers. Most often I have heard the figure 11,000,000 to 12,000,000 illegal aliens in the United States. Wiki says the figure could be as high as $20,000,000. Illegal immigrant population of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is true that nobody knows for sure, but the most credible numbers seem to all fall between 10 million and 12 million from a wide range of sources.

The cost to American taxpayers is about $113,000,000,000 a year. FAIR: Illegal Immigration a $113 Billion a Year Drain on U.S. Taxpayers

FAIRus is just a right wing anti immigrant hate group. They don't just oppose illegal immigration, they oppose all types of immigration and all types of immigrants. You should not be getting immigration information from them.

The number they're citing is a hoax. It is the estimate of total social spending on undocumented immigrants AND THEIR US CITIZEN CHILDREN... The largest item, obviously, is education for the kids, many of whom are citizens. Also, they do not deduct taxes paid by undocumented immigrants. When you take out the citizens and you deduct the taxes you get about $40 billion in social spending deficit.

But, that's only a small part of the story. Undocumented immigrants contribute dramatically to the economy. Many industries are only able to continue to operate because of the low cost labor they provide. When you figure all that out, you see that our GDP would drop by around $1 trillion a year if all the undocumented immigrants were suddenly deported, which far outweighs the $40 billion in social spending.

It has been estimated that America could deport 12,000,000 illegal aliens for $296,000,000,000 over five years. By all means yes, this is a bargain.

That might be the cost of the actual deportation proceedings, but the cost of actually rounding up 12 million people that don't want to be rounded up would be astronomical. Not to compare the two, but the only time I know of in human history that has been attempted was the holocaust and that required the dedication of the entire economy and the effective suspension of all civil rights for all people. Not to mention the constant threat of death for anybody who didn't share information with the authorities. I don't think we could possibly stomach those sorts of tactics or hits to our rights, but even if we could, the cost would be far, far, higher than $296 billion.

In the past presidents Eisenhower, Truman, and Hoover deported to get these jobs for veterans and those unemployed by the depression. Operation Wetback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia We might want to think again before we ignore these jobs, a berry picker in Georgia can make $25,000 a year!

We're deporting about 4 times as many people every year under Obama as we deported during Operation "Wetback".
 
I can understand that line of thinking, but at the sametime would you stand by and let a stranger break into your home and make themselves comfortable. No, i dont think you would.

Wait people are trying to break into my home and just live there?
 
It is true that nobody knows for sure, but the most credible numbers seem to all fall between 10 million and 12 million from a wide range of sources.
We agree on this, and it makes me sick. How can Americans be able to solve a problem when we can not define the magnitude. I think the real figures have to be around somewhere, just not available.

FAIRus is just a right wing anti immigrant hate group. They don't just oppose illegal immigration, they oppose all types of immigration and all types of immigrants. You should not be getting immigration information from them.

FAIR is the most accepted figure for the cost of health care, education, and welfare of illegal aliens. I have seen figures twice that much. I am looking for a reasonable figure if I can not have an accurate one. Do you have a figure to offer, link please.

The number they're citing is a hoax. It is the estimate of total social spending on undocumented immigrants AND THEIR US CITIZEN CHILDREN... The largest item, obviously, is education for the kids, many of whom are citizens. Also, they do not deduct taxes paid by undocumented immigrants. When you take out the citizens and you deduct the taxes you get about $40 billion in social spending deficit.

Let's stay off the subject of anchor babies, it will only serve as a distraction in an already murky issue. But, if you have a point I am willing to listen. I think Republicans have some tricks up their sleeves for anchor babies that has to do with deportation of family members for the felony of false citizenship documentation, but that is about all I know about it. I see Republicans as desperate in 2012, and anchor babies could be the easy target to blame. It could make the unemployed feel like someone is doing something to help them.

But, that's only a small part of the story. Undocumented immigrants contribute dramatically to the economy. Many industries are only able to continue to operate because of the low cost labor they provide. When you figure all that out, you see that our GDP would drop by around $1 trillion a year if all the undocumented immigrants were suddenly deported, which far outweighs the $40 billion in social spending.

Please provide me with links on the contributions of illegals, EVERYTHING I have seen paints them as a drag on the American economy. I can provide respected sources on this if you require.


That might be the cost of the actual deportation proceedings, but the cost of actually rounding up 12 million people that don't want to be rounded up would be astronomical. Not to compare the two, but the only time I know of in human history that has been attempted was the holocaust and that required the dedication of the entire economy and the effective suspension of all civil rights for all people. Not to mention the constant threat of death for anybody who didn't share information with the authorities. I don't think we could possibly stomach those sorts of tactics or hits to our rights, but even if we could, the cost would be far, far, higher than $296 billion.

When we really come down to it Americans are pissed off at foreign cultures invading the United States. Look at the Teabaggers, totally off the wall, and unafraid to use the "N" word. This nation is not as civilized as we like to think. I was researching the Sons of Liberty the other day. These are the guys that dumped the tea in Boston Harbor before the American Revolution. John Handcock made out very well, he was the only one who had tea to sell after the Boston Tea Party. The Sons of Liberty actually went to the homes of tax collectors, burned houses and killed a few tax collectors. Sam Adams was one crude, tough patriot. We are the same people today. One of the wealthiest families in America, the Cabots started as privateers in the American Revolution, (kind of legalized pirates), and today they run many major corporations. Our founding documents are more of a guideline, than a reality. The same families that founded this nation are running it today. The American flag is a symbol we wave over the next goals of big business. I believe this to be a fact.

We're deporting about 4 times as many people every year under Obama as we deported during Operation "Wetback".

I would really like this to be true, but the figure I have seen is closer to 400,000 a year. President Obama is said to have deported 200,000 felons in 2010, and will stick with this priority. I would love to see a link that shows Obama deporting four times a many as Operation Wetback.

You know in 1848 the United States won the Mexican American war, forgave Mexico's debts, and paid $18,000,000 for the borders as they now stand. Mexicans (who are distinctly different from Mexican Americans to me) have no respect for the border. Mexican American citizens are helping the illegals, (jail time in other nations). These people still speak Spanish after having over 150 years to assimilate. They either get with the program of Americanism or hit the highway. It is Washington, Franklin and Jefferson, not Villa, Zapata, and Juarez. The law is not going to help illegals, and we don't want to see any more Mexican flags on this side of the border. THE holiday is Thanksgiving not Sinko de Mayo.
 
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We agree on this, and it makes me sick. How can Americans be able to solve a problem when we can not define the magnitude. I think the real figures have to be around somewhere, just not available.

Nobody can know for sure, since they're hiding from authorities. The estimates are based on studies of areas and extrapolating those numbers to the nation based on different indicators. It's not an exact science.

FAIR is the most accepted figure for the cost of health care, education, and welfare of illegal aliens.

No, that's absolutely not true. They're a pretty radical right wing anti-immigration lobbying group. Again, the oppose not only illegal immigration, but also legal immigration.

Do you have a figure to offer, link please.

Sure. The Center for Immigration Studies is well respected. They estimate that the total costs of households headed by undocumented immigrants are $26 billion, but that they pay $16 billion in taxes, for a net federal deficit of $10 billion at the federal level. Some estimates from respectable places go as high as $40 billion, so I use that number to be on the conservative side, but anything over that that I've seen comes from radical hyper partisan anti-immigration groups or right wing pundits.

The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget | Center for Immigration Studies

Let's stay off the subject of anchor babies

Could we please not use slurs to describe babies for the love of god.

Please provide me with links on the contributions of illegals, EVERYTHING I have seen paints them as a drag on the American economy. I can provide respected sources on this if you require.

I did. The link is in the block you quoted.

I would really like this to be true, but the figure I have seen is closer to 400,000 a year. President Obama is said to have deported 200,000 felons in 2010, and will stick with this priority. I would love to see a link that shows Obama deporting four times a many as Operation Wetback.

The link you posted says that they took 80,000 undocumented immigrants into custody during Operation "Wetback". Obama is deporting around 400,000 per year. So, it's actually 5 times as many.

You know in 1848 the United States won the Mexican American war, forgave Mexico's debts, and paid $18,000,000 for the borders as they now stand. Mexicans (who are distinctly different from Mexican Americans to me) have no respect for the border. Mexican American citizens are helping the illegals, (jail time in other nations). These people still speak Spanish after having over 150 years to assimilate. They either get with the program of Americanism or hit the highway. It is Washington, Franklin and Jefferson, not Villa, Zapata, and Juarez. The law is not going to help illegals, and we don't want to see any more Mexican flags on this side of the border. THE holiday is Thanksgiving not Sinko de Mayo.

I'm not going to respond to the obviously xenophobic stuff.
 
L.A. - after 150 years - if they haven't changed any why would they?

Change often only occurs when stagnation no longer serves its purpose. Change happens when one must advance forward. If you don't have to change in order to propel forward - then why would you?

Evolution doesn't happen because it wants to. Evolution is a necessity and happens because it must.
 
I feel with all the illegals we have flowing into this country we are being invaded by an outside force. The America ive read about in history books doesn't really like being invaded, to name a couple, the american revolution and pearl harbor. Why should we treat this situation with mexico any differently.

To us normal people 12-20 million plus people trespassing into another country is an invasion.But int he eyes of most pro-illegals it is not.
 
Well then do tell what is your solution to stop this "invasion". Are we going to turn everyone queer so in the future there is no Mexico. WELAYY TURK UR JERBSSSS!!!
 
Well then do tell what is your solution to stop this "invasion". Are we going to turn everyone queer so in the future there is no Mexico. WELAYY TURK UR JERBSSSS!!!

WTF. Has no idea what this means, and I didn't know the consensus of this thread was that the illegal immigrants were part of an "invasion"
 
WTF. Has no idea what this means, and I didn't know the consensus of this thread was that the illegal immigrants were part of an "invasion"

I don't think it's an invasion, that's what jamesrage says. Apparently some people think that building a wall and mining the border is the only solution to the problem. EVEN THOUGH not all illegal immigrants come from Mexico.
 
I do! I don't think most people realize the damage they do to the economy in the US. Although there are many illegals from all over the world, more than half come from Mexico. It is sad that most of them are living in poverty and just want to find better paying jobs to support their families but they take away from American families who are already legally. They don't pay taxes or cover their own medical and education costs which means the US taxpayer has to. Billions of dollars are taken out of our economy and sent back to Mexico. It's common sense they are only hurting us without even mentioning all of the drugs and violence they bring in as well.
 
I don't think it's an invasion, that's what jamesrage says. Apparently some people think that building a wall and mining the border is the only solution to the problem. EVEN THOUGH not all illegal immigrants come from Mexico.

I do not think anyone who is actually an opponent of illegal immigration has ever stated that building a wall and mining the border are the only solutions. Its only the pro-illegals trying push for amnesty that make it seem as though those are the only solutions that those who are actually against illegal immigration are pushing.
 
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