Whites suddenly abandon the idea of meritocracy

[Tucker Case]

My post wasn't exactly a QUESTION.

Of course not. Anyone can see that it was a response to my question, posed to you, which only you can answer.

How about you address the points made instead of offering up one sentence quips.

What points have you made? That "darkies are bad, mmmkay"? That's not a point.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Write everyone in the Ghetto a check for a million dollars and it wouldn't improve the educational standards for their schools or their kids.

It has NOTHING to do with economocs and everything to do with the actions and choices of those who live there.

That is not so. If I got my $1 million check then I would certainly move to a better area, as would likely all of those trapped in these urban "tribal lands". Have you not noticed the curious correlation between wealthier areas and better gov't services? Now, if your real point is that morons would soon squander this wealth or vote for other morons to govern them - that is another story entirely.

 

[Ray410]

This is a pretty old issue.

It appears that Asians have strong knowledge retentive abilities i.e. read and remember, but are lacking in the all important creative abilities in which Western Europeans excel.

This is why the theft protection of American patented products has become so important in recent years.

 

[Fenton]

Of course not. Anyone can see that it was
a response to my question, posed to you, which only you can answer.



What points have you made? That "darkies are bad, mmmkay"? That's not a point.

I realize your twisted world view allows you to make incredibly stupid and innacurate observations but your reading comprehension issues do not make me a racist.

Is it that exhausting for you to offer any real sincere insight into the problems that affect inner city communities or is the drek and generic charges of racism that youv'e offered up so far ACTUALLY your sincere opinion ?

Because you haven't even addressed my points, you just shot right over to the playbook of all Internet Trolls.

" If you call them a racist, you've won ". Next you'll be calling me a Nazi.

I'm kind of embarrased for you.

 

[Tucker Case]

I realize your twisted world view allows you to make incredibly stupid and innacurate observations but your reading comprehension issues do not make me a racist.

Is it that exhausting for you to offer any real sincere insight into the problems that affect inner city communities or is the drek and generic charges of racism that youv'e offered up so far ACTUALLY your sincere opinion ?

Because you haven't even addressed my points, you just shot right over to the playbook of all Internet Trolls.

" If you call them a racist, you've won ". Next you'll be calling me a Nazi.

I'm kind of embarrased for you.

I'm not the person who got offended when my own words were applied to white people instead of blacks :shrug:

 

[justabubba]

LOL !!!

Yes, because ALL Trailer parks are filled with the stereotypical poor uneducated "white trash" and are always located in areas that have deplorable schools.

in the same way you insist ghettos are the exclusive residence of black folks ... the stupidity of such musings stings when held in front of your face, doesn't it?

Wow....because yes, it's the trailer parks that have a exponential amount of rising deaths and gang violence and its the trailer parks which are loaded down with single uneducated mothers with multiple children from different fathers.

so, you do notice the similarity to your ghetto reference. good
or are you wanting us to believe that there is not a disproportionate amount of violence, incest, meth labs, drug use, incarceration and unmarried mothers resident within trailer parks occupied by poor white folks

Lol...you have no clue. You just wanted to get in your " Ugly American " tea party digg in.

thank you for volunteering the tea bagger reference. and until the heavy makeup is peeled off, who knows how (un)attractive the female trailer park residents might be

I mean its either that or youv'e just made a fool out of yourself by comparing the decades old issue involving generational dependency, drugs, high illegitimacy, the destruction of the black family unit and poverty to your cartoon characterization of people that live in trailers.

what i have done is ridicule your notion that dependency, drugs. out of wedlock births, dysfunctional families and poverty are the exclusive domain of people of color
that the majority of welfare is spent on white people must be another fact that hurts when presented. get pissed off, torch a cross and show us how angry that reality makes you

 

[Tucker Case]

By the way, for anyone truly interested in watching white people **** all over themselves to reject the idea of a meritocracy, just propose that we abolish generational inheritance. People don't WANT a meritocracy. It would mean that they could not work to set their own children up to have significant advantages over other kids. We want our kids to have an advantage over other kids. We're biologically wired for this. I don't care if my kid doesn't have as much talent or skill as some other kid, I still want my kid to be way more successful.

 

[dnsmith]

Remember all the weeping and wailing about grades, affirmative action and college entry requirements?
Remember how sure most whites are that every black student in a Ivy league University got there at the expense of some white kid?

Well looky..looky here!! Study shows when whites are pitted against their Asian counter-part ...guess what ....GRADES are suddenly not sssoo important!!

White definitions of merit and admissions change when they think about Asian Americans, study finds | Inside Higher Ed

Critics of affirmative action generally argue that the country would be better off with a meritocracy, typically defined as an admissions system where high school grades and standardized test scores are the key factors, applied in the same way to applicants of all races and ethnicities.

But what if they think they favor meritocracy but at some level actually have a flexible definition, depending on which groups would be helped by certain policies? Frank L. Samson, assistant professor of sociology at the University of Miami, thinks his new research findings suggest that the definition of meritocracy used by white people is far more fluid than many would admit, and that this fluidity results in white people favoring certain policies (and groups) over others.

Specifically, he found, in a survey of white California adults, they generally favor admissions policies that place a high priority on high school grade-point averages and standardized test scores. But when these white people are focused on the success of Asian-American students, their views change.:lamo

The white adults in the survey were also divided into two groups. Half were simply asked to assign the importance they thought various criteria should have in the admissions system of the University of California. The other half received a different prompt, one that noted that Asian Americans make up more than twice as many undergraduates proportionally in the UC system as they do in the population of the state.

When informed of that fact, the white adults favor a reduced role for grade and test scores in admissions -- apparently based on high achievement levels by Asian-American applicants. (Nationally, Asian average total scores on the three parts of the SAT best white average scores by 1,641 to 1,578 this year.)

So long as our educational systems are mediocre so will go the American student. Asians have higher motivation and family expectations. I say give the university slots to those who earned it through hard work, learning, and motivation. Those are the students who deserve it.

 

[Grand Mal]

Actually ...I would expect this attitude among whites to more likely be displayed in the south.

Like I said ...whites more than any group ...strongly favors their ..affirmative action.

When they were clearly the majority in the south....who came up with the ..."count the jelly beans in the bottle ...ruse?

I favour the idea that a quick assessment of intelligence can be made from punctuation. It's simple- smarter people read more and can therefore more easily handle spelling and punctuation. Dumber people tend to scatter punctuation like, say, ellipses, at random through their writing.
Waddaya think?

 

[radcen]

By the way, for anyone truly interested in watching white people **** all over themselves to reject the idea of a meritocracy, just propose that we abolish generational inheritance. People don't WANT a meritocracy. It would mean that they could not work to set their own children up to have significant advantages over other kids. We want our kids to have an advantage over other kids. We're biologically wired for this. I don't care if my kid doesn't have as much talent or skill as some other kid, I still want my kid to be way more successful.

Are you suggesting that only white people would object to this?

 

[Tucker Case]

So long as our educational systems are mediocre so will go the American student. Asians have higher motivation and family expectations. I say give the university slots to those who earned it through hard work, learning, and motivation. Those are the students who deserve it.

How can you tell who earned it through hard work, learning, and motivation, though? Definitely not from test scores and GPAs, I can assure you of that.

 

[Tucker Case]

Are you suggesting that only white people would object to this?

No, but they'd probably be the most vocal against it.

 

[Grand Mal]

Let's be honest here ...there is a measure of heredity to their advance intellect ....I would bet on a poor Asian getting better grades than any American.

You got a bet. You get to choose the 'poor Asian', I get to pick which American.
Just wondering- what about Jews? Would you expect a Jew to get higher test scores?

 

[radcen]

No, but they'd probably be the most vocal against it.

Fair enough.

 

[radcen]

Let's be honest here ...there is a measure of heredity to their advance intellect ....I would bet on a poor Asian getting better grades than any American.

Heredity, or culture?

Why is it that a 12 yr old Asian kids can come here on a boat, speak zero English, and graduate valedictorian 5 years later and speak impeccable English... while a poor black kid from the ghetto, who was born here and had the relative advantage of public education from Day One, and can't even graduate high school?

This is not an uncommon scenario, either.

 

[dnsmith]

How can you tell who earned it through hard work, learning, and motivation, though? Definitely not from test scores and GPAs, I can assure you of that.

There are more ways to understand a transcript and the references other than looking strictly at test scores and GPAs.

 

[Tucker Case]

There are more ways to understand a transcript and the references other than looking strictly at test scores and GPAs.

True, but the scores and GPA's are given the most weight, though.

And even with references, how do you judge who worked harder, learned more, or was more motivated? Hell, an average intelligence kid with a GPA of 4.0 that only got an 23 on his ACT while going to a terrible school probably worked a lot harder and was twice as motivated than a genius at a rich private school with a 4.0 GPA and a 36 ACT.

 

[haymarket]

By the way, for anyone truly interested in watching white people **** all over themselves to reject the idea of a meritocracy, just propose that we abolish generational inheritance. People don't WANT a meritocracy. It would mean that they could not work to set their own children up to have significant advantages over other kids. We want our kids to have an advantage over other kids. We're biologically wired for this. I don't care if my kid doesn't have as much talent or skill as some other kid, I still want my kid to be way more successful.

Exactly. Look at the posters right here on this sight you rant and rave against affirmative action for minorities but switch 180 degrees when you talk about legacy admissions for the kids of rich alumni. All of the sudden an affirmative action program for the rich is just fine with them.

 

[Fenton]

I'm not the person who got offended when my own words were applied to
white people instead of blacks :shrug:

LOL !!!

How's it feel to be a integral part of what's allowed places like Detroit and the South Side of Chicago to continue to go down hill ?

I mean you call me a racist, ( which is expected ) but your sincere interest for the people and children that reside in those areas is limited to their usefulness to you.

The worse off they are, the more you can demagogue the issue, and accuse the odd poster of being racist.

You spread the corrupted Victimization narrative because it bolsters your generic accusations of racism no matter how innacurate they are.

It's a bit cold to use the plight of inner city residents for your own gain, and its ironic seeing how you're most likely one of the biggest racist here.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Heredity, or culture?

Why is it that a 12 yr old Asian kids can come here on a boat, speak zero English, and graduate valedictorian 5 years later and speak impeccable English... while a poor black kid from the ghetto, who was born here and had the relative advantage of public education from Day One, and can't even graduate high school?

This is not an uncommon scenario, either.

Family expecations and requirements

When a Chinese or Vietnamese parent (for example) sacrificied and risked so much to bring their childern over to the US (or Canada) in order to give the child a better future, that parent is going to do whatever they can to ensure that future is realized. In the case of many chinese, that means ensuring a high level of educational success. The number of chinese parents placing education as a priority is I believe at a much higher rate then it is for non chinese americans (with the exception of some other groups like jewish americans, for example).

Having been to China, a few times, there are alot of stupid chinese people as well. It is not really genetic, it is just that the most motivated are the ones to immigrate

 

[Tucker Case]

LOL !!!

How's it feel to be a integral part of what's allowed places like Detroit and the South Side of Chicago to continue to go down hill ?

I mean you call me a racist, ( which is expected ) but your sincere interest for the people and children that reside in those areas is limited to their usefulness to you.

The worse off they are, the more you can demagogue the issue, and accuse the odd poster of being racist.

You spread the corrupted Victimization narrative because it bolsters your generic accusations of racism no matter how innacurate they are.

It's a bit cold to use the plight of inner city residents for your own gain, and its ironic seeing how you're most likely one of the biggest racist here.

I'm not accusing anyone of being racist. I correctly noting that YOU are making racist arguments. I don't know if you are actually racist or not, but I know that what you say is purely racist. So much so that you whine and cry once the same words are applied to white people. :shrug:

 

[Fenton]

in the same way you insist ghettos are
the exclusive residence of black folks ... the stupidity of such musings stings when held in front of your face, doesn't it?


so, you do notice the similarity to your ghetto reference. good
or are you wanting us to believe that there is not a disproportionate amount of violence, incest, meth labs, drug use, incarceration and unmarried mothers resident within trailer parks occupied by poor white folks




thank you for volunteering the tea bagger reference. and until the heavy makeup is peeled off, who knows how (un)attractive the female trailer park residents might be



what i have done is ridicule your notion that dependency, drugs. out of wedlock births, dysfunctional families and poverty are the exclusive domain of people of color
that the majority of welfare is spent on white people must be another fact that hurts when presented. get pissed off, torch a cross and show us how angry that reality makes you

I've been pretty specific with my locations. The South Side of Chicago, Detroit and Kansas City which have a alarming rate of rising violence.

Go ahead and list the other " Ghettos" not comprised of a majority of Blacks with the same statistics. In America of-course.

I'll wait.

Also the illegitimacy rate among Blacks and the unemployment rate AND the rate of Dependency is rather high, so you can go ahead and offer up information on additional races and cultures that's comparable or you can shut up and stop making stupid arguments.

Your trailer park comparison was JUST STUPID. Irrelevent and nonsensical and a childish attempt at a dig towards people that are in no way associated with the problems that exist in the inner cities. Oh and look, you even got to say " Tea Bagger ".

Its ironic that you critique people like that when your'e beholden to a ideology that perpetuates inner city decay and failure. Oh but your'e the " good guy "....Lol

And your statistics on welfare minus context is really weak and expected.

Go ahead and report the per capita statistics if you have the integrity to do so.

I'm not a Democrat so I'm not impressed by raw data posted dishonestly for effect.

 

[justabubba]

Heredity, or culture?

Why is it that a 12 yr old Asian kids can come here on a boat, speak zero English, and graduate valedictorian 5 years later and speak impeccable English... while a poor black kid from the ghetto, who was born here and had the relative advantage of public education from Day One, and can't even graduate high school?

This is not an uncommon scenario, either.

culture
i work with a bunch of asian refugees
the girls seldom attended school in their native country, and if so, seldom beyond second grade. the boys rarely went beyond fourth grade
and of the three tribes of this group, one is more inclined toward education than the other two
and it is the children of that particular tribe who are now thriving in the USA
those of the other two tribes track the typical inner city school outcome. their objective is to get married, have kids, and get a job ... too often in that order. because that is what is expected of them by the elders of their tribe who brought their tribal expectation with them and have not tried to assimilate and assume American values
meanwhile, the kids of that tribe/culture which values education are doing well, attend college, and dare dream of an economically sound future
the genetics are substantially alike. it is the culture expectations which impacts their futures

 

[Tucker Case]

I've been pretty specific with my locations. The South Side of Chicago, Detroit and Kansas City which have a alarming rate of rising violence.

Chicago's murder rates are much lower than they were in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's.

 

[calamity]

Remember all the weeping and wailing about grades, affirmative action and college entry requirements?
Remember how sure most whites are that every black student in a Ivy league University got there at the expense of some white kid?

Well looky..looky here!! Study shows when whites are pitted against their Asian counter-part ...guess what ....GRADES are suddenly not sssoo important!!

White definitions of merit and admissions change when they think about Asian Americans, study finds | Inside Higher Ed

Critics of affirmative action generally argue that the country would be better off with a meritocracy, typically defined as an admissions system where high school grades and standardized test scores are the key factors, applied in the same way to applicants of all races and ethnicities.

But what if they think they favor meritocracy but at some level actually have a flexible definition, depending on which groups would be helped by certain policies? Frank L. Samson, assistant professor of sociology at the University of Miami, thinks his new research findings suggest that the definition of meritocracy used by white people is far more fluid than many would admit, and that this fluidity results in white people favoring certain policies (and groups) over others.

Specifically, he found, in a survey of white California adults, they generally favor admissions policies that place a high priority on high school grade-point averages and standardized test scores. But when these white people are focused on the success of Asian-American students, their views change.:lamo

The white adults in the survey were also divided into two groups. Half were simply asked to assign the importance they thought various criteria should have in the admissions system of the University of California. The other half received a different prompt, one that noted that Asian Americans make up more than twice as many undergraduates proportionally in the UC system as they do in the population of the state.

When informed of that fact, the white adults favor a reduced role for grade and test scores in admissions -- apparently based on high achievement levels by Asian-American applicants. (Nationally, Asian average total scores on the three parts of the SAT best white average scores by 1,641 to 1,578 this year.)

I'm not surprised. Affirmitive Action is a dirty word except when suddenly Whites are underrepresented in Colleges. I wonder when the cry for a policy shift will come to draw more men into the schools as well, seeing as how more and more women are going to college at a time when ever fewer numbers of men do.