Whites suddenly abandon the idea of meritocracy

[Thrilla]

Actually ...I would expect this attitude among whites to more likely be displayed in the south.

Like I said ...whites more than any group ...strongly favors their ..affirmative action.

When they were clearly the majority in the south....who came up with the ..."count the jelly beans in the bottle ...ruse?

the thread is about the study in California... if you have another study to show us about the south, go ahead and present it.

what you "expect" isn't an alternative to a study or data.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

Sure if you want to use a 50 year old sterotype to feel better than people in the South. As someone who lives in the south, I can say we pretty much hate everyone equally, except our relatives whom we hate more, unless of course you mess with them in which case we might have to become involved because you are not elbowing in on our turf.

...LOL...we hate everyone equally...LOL!!:lamo

Let's not get away from the stark naked truth on display in the origin of this thread.

And that's the fact that no one ...clings to affirmative action than the whites. The whole argument about ...."we're losing the country".....is 100% ....we're losing our(whites) affirmative action ....advantage!!

And here it is ...on display for all to see.

 

[Fisher]

...LOL...we hate everyone equally...LOL!!:lamo

Let's not get away from the stark naked truth on display in the origin of this thread.

And that's the fact that no one ...clings to affirmative action than the whites. The whole argument about ...."we're losing the country".....is 100% ....we're losing our(whites) affirmative action ....advantage!!

And here it is ...on display for all to see.

Maybe it just means that Californian whites hate Asians. In the south, if there is not an Asian kid at the top of the class and there is an Asian kid in the class, people assume there is something really wrong with said Asian kid.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

Maybe it just means that Californian whites hate Asians. In the south, if there is not an Asian kid at the top of the class and there is an Asian kid in the class, people assume there is something really wrong with said Asian kid.

When an Asian is not performing in school ...it usually because he/she only looks Asian ...but really ...he/she is American. If any of the parent is American ...even if he/she is adopted ....they frequently end up being as dunce as their American counter-part.

Asian's intellectual superiority is mostly derived from a combination of:

1) heredity
2) Culture
3) an aversion to religion

 

[thinkforyoursel]

It almost sounds like you're implying that Asians have a social and economic advantage that translates into higher test scores and a competitive advantage, academically.
Have I got that right?

Let's be honest here ...there is a measure of heredity to their advance intellect ....I would bet on a poor Asian getting better grades than any American.

 

[Thrilla]

Let's be honest here ...there is a measure of heredity to their advance intellect ....I would bet on a poor Asian getting better grades than any American.

Asian is an ethnicity.. American is a nationality.

so what ethnicity are Asians superior to again?


how do you account for the Asians who are dumb as stumps.... bad genes?

 

[Rainman05]

Some white folks are selfish .....trying to sweep this under the rug...aren't you? This isn't about just being selfish ....and it certainly isn't about some....white people!
This is America ..and specifically white America for all it's history.
Step 1) ...stack the deck in my(white favor)
Step 2) ...use the media to "pretend" the field is level
Step 3)....because I (white) have such an advantage ...I have free time to make deliberate effort to ensure others can never compete

These (white) kids are the very same people scattered all over the country today .....their attitude of rigging the "game" is not a one-off issue. The banker, the lawyer, the police all think this way.

Take a look at stop and frisk in New York today ....over 90% of the blacks frisked have no weapon. The only way to end that law ....stop and frisk whites for no reason ...all of a sudden they start understanding why this is a bad idea. The same people in New York today saying this is OK ...are the same people wailing about merely being spied on ...on-line by the government!!

In a similar way ...Stand-Your Ground ....can stop ...all blacks need to do is to walk around armed ...pick a fight with their white counter part ...and Walla...all of a sudden that law is repealed.

see ..what these white kids are really asking for by making this 180 degree swing when it comes to Asians ........they are asking for yep...AFFIRMITIVE ACTION!!

In fact ...I would bet these kids grow up and double-down on this way of operating. This ...in a nut shell is what racism is....this is what binds a Rush Limbaugh to Nancy Pelosi ..because this racism trumps party!!

When an Asian is not performing in school ...it usually because he/she only looks Asian ...but really ...he/she is American. If any of the parent is American ...even if he/she is adopted ....they frequently end up being as dunce as their American counter-part.

Asian's intellectual superiority is mostly derived from a combination of:

1) heredity
2) Culture
3) an aversion to religion

Let's be honest here ...there is a measure of heredity to their advance intellect ....I would bet on a poor Asian getting better grades than any American.

This is a general reply to all your comments.

You're a special kind of racist. Not because of the fact that you hate white people, that's not even exciting anymore, there are plenty of other people with a lot more posts than you, whom are idiots, who do that, but because you consider race to be the integral part of someones' success. You even try and point out that asians are racially superior to white people.

Now that's just stupid and it is why this entire thread is BS. And so are you. And everything you said is pretty much false so yeah.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

I applaud hard work and appreciate it when it pays off.

Studies that make people feel better about their lot in life, not so much.

 

[windowdressing]

Remember all the weeping and wailing about grades, affirmative action and college entry requirements?
Remember how sure most whites are that every black student in a Ivy league University got there at the expense of some white kid?

Well looky..looky here!! Study shows when whites are pitted against their Asian counter-part ...guess what ....GRADES are suddenly not sssoo important!!

White definitions of merit and admissions change when they think about Asian Americans, study finds | Inside Higher Ed

Critics of affirmative action generally argue that the country would be better off with a meritocracy, typically defined as an admissions system where high school grades and standardized test scores are the key factors, applied in the same way to applicants of all races and ethnicities.

But what if they think they favor meritocracy but at some level actually have a flexible definition, depending on which groups would be helped by certain policies? Frank L. Samson, assistant professor of sociology at the University of Miami, thinks his new research findings suggest that the definition of meritocracy used by white people is far more fluid than many would admit, and that this fluidity results in white people favoring certain policies (and groups) over others.

Specifically, he found, in a survey of white California adults, they generally favor admissions policies that place a high priority on high school grade-point averages and standardized test scores. But when these white people are focused on the success of Asian-American students, their views change.:lamo

The white adults in the survey were also divided into two groups. Half were simply asked to assign the importance they thought various criteria should have in the admissions system of the University of California. The other half received a different prompt, one that noted that Asian Americans make up more than twice as many undergraduates proportionally in the UC system as they do in the population of the state.

When informed of that fact, the white adults favor a reduced role for grade and test scores in admissions -- apparently based on high achievement levels by Asian-American applicants. (Nationally, Asian average total scores on the three parts of the SAT best white average scores by 1,641 to 1,578 this year.)

meritocracy has always been a myth ... good piece ... BTW, how about all those legacy admits by the Ivies?

 

[windowdressing]

Let's be honest here ...there is a measure of heredity to their advance intellect ....I would bet on a poor Asian getting better grades than any American.

First, don't confuse intellect with higher grades and scores. Second, why hereditary and not cultural? Can there be social factors that help explain the difference?

 

[nota bene]

Ah yeah - and remember the hilarity that comes with the drop-out statistics? It seems that being permitted into a school when you're already on the lower end of the education ladder means you're less likely to graduate.

Funny funny :roll:

I support our varied educational levels - some just aren't college material and, no matter how they get in, will soon find it above their heads if they aren't prepared enough. Those who are exceptional can have the Ivy League colleges - and the average people will be in the middle at the regular universities, etc.

Is this really so terrible? We have opportunities to suit everyone's abilities and needs - and as has been a discussion in the last few years here - standard higher education is overrated and a waste for some.

It is a waste for some--and a tremendous waste for their professors and classmates because those who don't really want to be there or who are simply unprepared to do the work drag everybody down.

A 4-year degree (or more) is great/required for some fields, but there is no reason for a firefighter to earn more than an Associate of Applied Science. He will also spend hundreds and hundreds of hours in training and certifications, and these, IMO, are at least equal to those same hours spent completing another 60-75 hours that an engineering major does in engineering classes. Same with EMSs.

 

[Tucker Case]

I favor a meritocracy, but why are merits being so narrowly defined as GPA and standardized test scores? That assumes a level playing field, and we know there is no such thing as a level playing field.

Think of it this way: Two students, one is an only child from a wealthy, educated family and goes to a good high school. That kid scores 32 on his ACT and has a 3.5 GPA. The other kid is dirt poor and grows up in a terrible neighborhood. His mother is a high school drop out and his dad is in jail. He spends his evenings working to help feed his younger siblings and his high school is utterly atrocious. That kid only gets a 29 on his ACT and graduates with a 3.25 GPA.

Raw numbers-wise, an idiot might say that the kid from the wealthy family did better in school, but when you factor in the difference in the quality of their education, the amount of effort required to GET that education, and the general "holy ****, that kid worked his ass off!" factor, what the poor kid did was immeasurably more meritorious.

In a true meritocracy, the poor kid goes ahead of the rich kid because of that. The rich kid had so many advantages that outperforming the poor kid should be expected. If they had performed equally, the rich kid would be vastly inferior.

 

[Fenton]

Snicker all you want. For every Dudley-do-
right household that somehow manages to go the extra mile, there is a hundred that is incapable of doing so....for whatever reason. Education/intelligence oof the parents....the physicality of the parent's job....mental stress and strain....whatever.

Do you want someone to.point the finger at(Asians) or real reasons and solutions as to why we're falling behind?

Teachers can't be the end all/be all. You have to have sound households too.

Write everyone in the Ghetto a check for a million dollars and it wouldn't improve the educational standards for their schools or their kids.

It has NOTHING to do with economocs and everything to do with the actions and choices of those who live there.

 

[justabubba]

Write everyone in the Ghetto a check for a million dollars and it wouldn't improve the educational standards for their schools or their kids.

It has NOTHING to do with economocs and everything to do with the actions and choices of those who live there.

similarly,

Write everyone in the TRAILER PARK a check for a million dollars and it wouldn't improve the educational standards for their schools or their kids.

It has NOTHING to do with economics and everything to do with the actions and choices of those who live there.

so, this is not a racial issue. it is a cultural one. notice the correlation of high education attainment and high income. those cultures which expect high academic performance of its children tend to be the same cultures with higher levels of economic attainment

and they tend not to be found in the trailer park or the ghetto

 

[Fenton]

similarly,


Write everyone in the TRAILER PARK a check for a million dollars and it wouldn't improve the educational standards for their schools or their kids.

It has NOTHING to do with economics and everything to do with the actions and choices of those who live there.

so, this is not a racial issue. it is a cultural one. notice the correlation of high education attainment and high income. those cultures which expect high academic performance of its children tend to be the same cultures with higher levels of economic attainment

and they tend not to be found in the trailer park or the ghetto

LOL !!!

Yes, because ALL Trailer parks are filled with the stereotypical poor uneducated "white trash" and are always located in areas that have deplorable schools.

Wow....because yes, it's the trailer parks that have a exponential amount of rising deaths and gang violence and its the trailer parks which are loaded down with single uneducated mothers with multiple children from different fathers.

Lol...you have no clue. You just wanted to get in your " Ugly American " tea party digg in.

I mean its either that or youv'e just made a fool out of yourself by comparing the decades old issue involving generational dependency, drugs, high illegitimacy, the destruction of the black family unit and poverty to your cartoon characterization of people that live in trailers.

 

[OscarB63]

Remember all the weeping and wailing about grades, affirmative action and college entry requirements?
Remember how sure most whites are that every black student in a Ivy league University got there at the expense of some white kid?

Well looky..looky here!! Study shows when whites are pitted against their Asian counter-part ...guess what ....GRADES are suddenly not sssoo important!!

White definitions of merit and admissions change when they think about Asian Americans, study finds | Inside Higher Ed

Critics of affirmative action generally argue that the country would be better off with a meritocracy, typically defined as an admissions system where high school grades and standardized test scores are the key factors, applied in the same way to applicants of all races and ethnicities.

But what if they think they favor meritocracy but at some level actually have a flexible definition, depending on which groups would be helped by certain policies? Frank L. Samson, assistant professor of sociology at the University of Miami, thinks his new research findings suggest that the definition of meritocracy used by white people is far more fluid than many would admit, and that this fluidity results in white people favoring certain policies (and groups) over others.

Specifically, he found, in a survey of white California adults, they generally favor admissions policies that place a high priority on high school grade-point averages and standardized test scores. But when these white people are focused on the success of Asian-American students, their views change.:lamo

The white adults in the survey were also divided into two groups. Half were simply asked to assign the importance they thought various criteria should have in the admissions system of the University of California. The other half received a different prompt, one that noted that Asian Americans make up more than twice as many undergraduates proportionally in the UC system as they do in the population of the state.

When informed of that fact, the white adults favor a reduced role for grade and test scores in admissions -- apparently based on high achievement levels by Asian-American applicants. (Nationally, Asian average total scores on the three parts of the SAT best white average scores by 1,641 to 1,578 this year.)

California.......all that needs to be said

 

[Tucker Case]

LOL !!!

Yes, because ALL Trailer parks are filled with the stereotypical poor uneducated "white trash" and are always located in areas that have deplorable schools.

Wow....because yes, it's the trailer parks that have a exponential amount of rising deaths and gang violence and its the trailer parks which are loaded down with single uneducated mothers with multiple children from different fathers.

Lol...you have no clue. You just wanted to get in your " Ugly American " tea party digg in.

I mean its either that or youv'e just made a fool out of yourself by comparing the decades old issue involving generational dependency, drugs, high illegitimacy, the destruction of the black family unit and poverty to your cartoon characterization of people that live in trailers.

Holy ****. The world is now a measurably dumber place than it was an hour ago.

 

[Fenton]

Holy ****. The world is now a measurably dumber
place than it was an hour ago.

Aww, don't be so hard on old Bubba, the effects of his contribution to the Cumalitive dumbing down of the average American Citizen died out sometime last year on this very forum.

 

[Fenton]

meritocracy has always been a myth
... good piece ... BTW, how about all those legacy admits by the Ivies?

LOL !!!

" Legacy admits " ? You guys are so predictable.

You frame the Conversation by establishing your false narratives on exagerated terms.

First you personally define the two extremes, ( Ivy league students who recieved admission based solely on Legacy " and poor mistreated victims of white priviledge and racism ) and then proceed to make the case based on these irrelevent and innacurate stero-types.

And in the process completely missed the point and/or any substantial part of the issue.

Its why places are like the South Side of Chicago, Detroit, Kansas City, New Orleans and parts of Atlanta have been stuck in this perpetual state of desperation.

Democrats, really " swell classy people"...

Your plattitudes and your false narratives like "income disparity" , white priveledge, institutionalized racism and just the general " eat the rich claptrap are more valuable to you people than actually addressing the issue honestly and truly offering these people any real help.

You need manufactured issues like poverty and violence and generational dependency because it guarantees a vote for your side, but you call Tea Party members racist....lol.

" legacy admissions "........LOL !! How desperately ignorant and its right out of the old Democrat palybook.

 

[Tucker Case]

Aww, don't be so hard on old Bubba, the effects of his contribution to the Cumalitive dumbing down of the average American Citizen died out sometime last year on this very forum.

You're a poe, right?

 

[Fenton]

You're a poe, right?

Your'e asking the wrong poster

 

[Tucker Case]

Your'e asking the wrong poster

Only you would know the answer to that question. :shrug:

 

[radcen]

Some white folks are selfish too? I am shocked!

I'm kind of curious why this is suddenly news. This has been noted and debated off and on for at least a couple decades.

 

[Fenton]

Only you would know the answer to that question.
:shrug:

My post wasn't exactly a QUESTION.

How about you address the points made instead of offering up one sentence quips.

 

[Fenton]

I'm kind of curious why this is suddenly news.
This has been noted and debated off and on for at least a couple decades.

Your'e right, its NOT news nor is it even relevent to this discussion.