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White race-baiters.

Papa bull

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Now I can understand why the poverty pimps like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton engage in their race-baiting garbage and insinuate that racism is a "white thing". Their motivations are clear enough, but what about all the liberal whites acting like they are apostles of the race-baiting poverty pimps. What is going through their minds? Are they projecting their own racism on everyone else and is that what causes the enormous white guilt effect so obvious in their rhetoric? I have no such white guilt problem. I see racism when there's actual racism, not at every opportunity to try to make things about race I don't think anybody owes anyone anything based on race and, in fact, based on anything other than mutual respect.

What the F*** is wrong with people? Why do you liberal "whites" feel that all your fellow "whites" are racist bastards that should be hanging their heads in shame over what they did to the poor blacks. Did you find out your great great grandaddy was a brutal slave-owner on a cotton planation or something? Explain your guilt because I don't get it. None of my ancestors had plantations or owned slaves. Hell, not many of my ancestors were even as high up economically as the middle class we aspired to become when I was a kid. Poor folks that are half Cuban and half Irish like me, growing up in poverty and struggling to get ahead sure as hell don't understand why some of you guilt-tripping white libs seem to feel that it's a bed of roses for white folks and that all white folks should be spending their lives apologizing for **** that they actually didn't have a damned thing to do with.

White guilt... can any of you libs all eaten up with it explain where the HELL it's coming from, because I just don't get it.
 

ttwtt78640

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Now I can understand why the poverty pimps like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton engage in their race-baiting garbage and insinuate that racism is a "white thing". Their motivations are clear enough, but what about all the liberal whites acting like they are apostles of the race-baiting poverty pimps. What is going through their minds? Are they projecting their own racism on everyone else and is that what causes the enormous white guilt effect so obvious in their rhetoric? I have no such white guilt problem. I see racism when there's actual racism, not at every opportunity to try to make things about race I don't think anybody owes anyone anything based on race and, in fact, based on anything other than mutual respect.

What the F*** is wrong with people? Why do you liberal "whites" feel that all your fellow "whites" are racist bastards that should be hanging their heads in shame over what they did to the poor blacks. Did you find out your great great grandaddy was a brutal slave-owner on a cotton planation or something? Explain your guilt because I don't get it. None of my ancestors had plantations or owned slaves. Hell, not many of my ancestors were even as high up economically as the middle class we aspired to become when I was a kid. Poor folks that are half Cuban and half Irish like me, growing up in poverty and struggling to get ahead sure as hell don't understand why some of you guilt-tripping white libs seem to feel that it's a bed of roses for white folks and that all white folks should be spending their lives apologizing for **** that they actually didn't have a damned thing to do with.

White guilt... can any of you libs all eaten up with it explain where the HELL it's coming from, because I just don't get it.

The fact that 93% of black homicide victims were killed by another black is due to racism, the other 7% is also due to racism - what part of that is so hard to understand? Any personal achievement by a black person is because they fought against the odds and overcame racism, any other outcome is because that racism is still holding them back - now do you get it? In any difficult situation you simply play the race card - any argument over that tactic can then be attributed to racism. ;)

Race Relations Expert Says “Stop Questioning Zimmerman Verdict; Address Black-on-Black Crime” | Beyond Black & White
 

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The fact that 93% of black homicide victims were killed by another black is due to racism, the other 7% is also due to racism - what part of that is so hard to understand? Any personal achievement by a black person is because they fought against the odds and overcame racism, any other outcome is because that racism is still holding them back - now do you get it? In any difficult situation you simply play the race card - any argument over that tactic can then be attributed to racism. ;)

Race Relations Expert Says “Stop Questioning Zimmerman Verdict; Address Black-on-Black Crime” | Beyond Black & White

You are making a straw man and misusing statistics. The vast majority of all murder is intraracial(ie white on white, black on black). It has nothing to do with race per se, but that most people know mostly people of their same race, and most murders are of people known by the murderer. Racism is not the issue in most muders, though it is in a small few. This is what I was talking about in the other thread, about pointing fingers instead of talking about racism. Does not matter who is racist, it matters how to reduce racism. The OP running around throwing out intentionally inflammatory statements trying to get a reaction is hardly what you would call an honest discussion on race. You at least are smart enough to know better.
 

Papa bull

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I know full well that most of the people engaged in making the Zimmerman trial into a racist spectacle are white liberals. Seriously, folks, what the HELL is your "white guilt" trip all about. Are you reformed racists? We're your ancestors slave owners? Did your parents or you support separate water fountains? Something has to explain your obvious perspective that white people won't give black people a fair shake. All white people aren't like that but you've got something in your head telling you they are. So what is it?
 

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I know full well that most of the people engaged in making the Zimmerman trial into a racist spectacle are white liberals. Seriously, folks, what the HELL is your "white guilt" trip all about. Are you reformed racists? We're your ancestors slave owners? Did your parents or you support separate water fountains? Something has to explain your obvious perspective that white people won't give black people a fair shake. All white people aren't like that but you've got something in your head telling you they are. So what is it?

Really? You know it? Based on what facts? How can you bitch about them when you are doing the exact same ****ing thing?
 

Papa bull

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Really? You know it? Based on what facts? How can you bitch about them when you are doing the exact same ****ing thing?

Hey.... I think I just saw a flicker from your lightbulb. Keep thinking and maybe the light will come on.
 

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Hey.... I think I just saw a flicker from your lightbulb. Keep thinking and maybe the light will come on.

And you still won't have a point and will still be being hypocritical.
 

Papa bull

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And you still won't have a point and will still be being hypocritical.

Hypocritical and pointless accusations. You're getting warmer. Think about it.
 

iliveonramen

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I have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to make a lot of leaps regarding motivations in order to fit everything into some nice little package of preconceived notions.
 

ttwtt78640

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You are making a straw man and misusing statistics. The vast majority of all murder is intraracial(ie white on white, black on black). It has nothing to do with race per se, but that most people know mostly people of their same race, and most murders are of people known by the murderer. Racism is not the issue in most muders, though it is in a small few. This is what I was talking about in the other thread, about pointing fingers instead of talking about racism. Does not matter who is racist, it matters how to reduce racism. The OP running around throwing out intentionally inflammatory statements trying to get a reaction is hardly what you would call an honest discussion on race. You at least are smart enough to know better.

The Martin/Zimmerman affair was not about race either, it was about self defense as the jury verdict should have made crystal clear, yet even the POTUS cannot bring himself to accept that simple fact. Many black folks are all riled up over it so it then becomes, by default, time to yap about race again - that is pure race baiting nonsense! Let the Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharptons stoop to that level, but not the POTUS, no matter what color or party he pretends to represent.

If one wants a serious discussion of race then they must start with reality as the basis for that discussion. As you pointed out, and I fully agree with you, racism has almost nothing to do with homicide - in 2011 there were 4 murders classified as hate crimes. That is less than are killed in a typical Chicago weekend. If anyone starts with the premise that racism has anything to do with murder, or any crime other than racially based hate crime then they should get on the STFU bus and leave immediately.

My point is quite simple. If you think that black murder victims represent symptoms of a racial problem, then explain why less blacks are killed by whites (7% or less) than whites are killed by blacks (16% or less) and why, as you pointed out, most murder is not inter-racial at all.
 

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The Martin/Zimmerman affair was not about race either, it was about self defense as the jury verdict should have made crystal clear, yet even the POTUS cannot bring himself to accept that simple fact. Many black folks are all riled up over it so it then becomes, by default, time to yap about race again - that is pure race baiting nonsense! Let the Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharptons stoop to that level, but not the POTUS, no matter what color or party he pretends to represent.

It's also about the unintended consequences such laws bring about and this case is a good example of that consequence. A young black man wondering a neighbor who looks suspicious turns to murder. I think it puts specific people at risk whenever you use the word "suspicious" and to leave out race being one of those factors is being dishonest as far as I'm concerned.
 

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I have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to make a lot of leaps regarding motivations in order to fit everything into some nice little package of preconceived notions.

That seems to be the hard little core of this whole thing, doesn't it? Assigning motivations, lumping people together, making "leaps" to wrap everything up in a package that fits your world view. That's what this whole kerfuffle over race is all about and the ninnies pointing fingers and labeling people racists willy-nilly are just as guilty of it as the racists.
 

Sisyphus

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White race-baiters.

It is my preferred, since I tend to catch more when baiting my hook with white people. Also I prefer them when baiting in my crab pots, which seems to bring Dungeness flocking when you put a couple arms or the head of white babies in the traps.

So uber +1 here!!!
 

ttwtt78640

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It's also about the unintended consequences such laws bring about and this case is a good example of that consequence. A young black man wondering a neighbor who looks suspicious turns to murder. I think it puts specific people at risk whenever you use the word "suspicious" and to leave out race being one of those factors is being dishonest as far as I'm concerned.

Then again the "cure" is very, very simple: do not punch, knock to the ground, mount and then keep beating folks and they cannot legally shoot you. Duh...
 
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What blows my mind is how out of hand this case got.

What started as a simple self-defense case ended in a mainstream media race-baiting frenzy that shunted justice into the wind in the name of "justice". The protestors got everything they wanted--investigation was reopened, independent investigators were called in, and the case went to trial. The only thing Trayvon supporters did not get was the verdict they wanted. Why even bother calling it "justice" if, from the very beginning, they just wanted GZ thrown in jail or killed? Why even bother having a trial? In the eyes of these individuals, an internet poll would have been more fitting. The prosecution did not even have enough evidence to get to trial--it only made it because of the highly politicized nature of this event, so why is it any surprise they didn't win the case?

So you have the media race-baiting the racists, so the racists come out and frustrate the rest of us who could not have given two craps about this case in the first place, and all of a sudden the media has everyone right where they want them--at each other's throats.

It's a simple case.

Person A followed Person B despite being advised that he had no obligation to do so. No laws were broken until Person B attacked person A. After that, it was all self-defense as agreed upon by forensics experts and a jury of peers who spent weeks living and breathing the case. Done.

Somehow that makes them less educated than people who spent 30 minutes reading MSNBC opinion pieces and doctored dialogue? It is frustrating for those of us who can see what a non-issue this is in the grand scheme of things. It is a slap in the face to pragmatism and is an illustration of all that is wrong with race relations today.
 

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why do these fellow conservatives keep attacking a dead boy for months ?

every extremism creates its own opposite
 

iliveonramen

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That seems to be the hard little core of this whole thing, doesn't it? Assigning motivations, lumping people together, making "leaps" to wrap everything up in a package that fits your world view. That's what this whole kerfuffle over race is all about and the ninnies pointing fingers and labeling people racists willy-nilly are just as guilty of it as the racists.

Sure...to an extent. There's a difference between saying the Zimmerman assumed Martin was up to no good because of his skin color and making some statement that anybody that agrees with that view is some white guilt person or thinks that everyone that's white is racist.

I remember visiting a larger city and some old lady locking the doors when my brother and I walked past. Like you were grew up poor so were in hand me downs that probably conveyed how poor we were. I can definitely see how it's possible for a young black man to be treated as a criminal based on someone snap judgement.

If Martin's race came into the equation at all when Zimmerman followed him then race is the basis for the case. If it would of been some white kid walking down the road and Zimmerman would of ignored him then I'm not sure how there's not cause for people to question how much race played and issue.

Like a lot of things...this specific case is a lightening rod for things that go deeper than just what happened in this specific case.
 

Hard Truth

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Because I know our nation's recent history. Because I have seen the statistics showing evidence of racial profiling and a racist justice system. Because I know about the racist things many white people say when minorities aren't around. Because I know know how stupid some cops can be. Because I know what it is like to get profiled (my hair and old car when I was younger) and what it is like to not get profiled (now that I'm older and have short hair and a nicer car.) Because I've lived, worked and interacted with various minorities enough to hear their stories and see how they respond to being treated with disrespect by authorities. Because my political beliefs don't depend on the false notion that all racism ended in 1970. Because I care about justice for all.
 
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rabbitcaebannog

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Then again the "cure" is very, very simple: do not punch, knock to the ground, mount and then keep beating folks and they cannot legally shoot you. Duh...

Duh nothing. It is not beyond belief for young folks to act irrational when provoked. I've seen it at many a party during my college years. Thank gawd it wasn't legal to allow death by a law otherwise they're would be quite a few dead men around. It opens a door to allow such unintentional consequences.
 

Redress

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The Martin/Zimmerman affair was not about race either, it was about self defense as the jury verdict should have made crystal clear, yet even the POTUS cannot bring himself to accept that simple fact. Many black folks are all riled up over it so it then becomes, by default, time to yap about race again - that is pure race baiting nonsense! Let the Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharptons stoop to that level, but not the POTUS, no matter what color or party he pretends to represent.

If one wants a serious discussion of race then they must start with reality as the basis for that discussion. As you pointed out, and I fully agree with you, racism has almost nothing to do with homicide - in 2011 there were 4 murders classified as hate crimes. That is less than are killed in a typical Chicago weekend. If anyone starts with the premise that racism has anything to do with murder, or any crime other than racially based hate crime then they should get on the STFU bus and leave immediately.

My point is quite simple. If you think that black murder victims represent symptoms of a racial problem, then explain why less blacks are killed by whites (7% or less) than whites are killed by blacks (16% or less) and why, as you pointed out, most murder is not inter-racial at all.

You are making a presumption that is not neccarily true. No one knows for sure how exactly the events unfolded. I would point out that you are still pointing to one group of people playing up race, and not to another. You are still using this as a political tool, and that is not the way to have an honest discussion.
 

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Because I know our nation's recent history. Because I have seen the statistics showing evidence of racial profiling and a racist justice system. Because I know about the racist things many white people say when minorities aren't around. Because I know know how stupid some cops can be. Because I know what it is like to get profiled (my hair and old car when I was younger) and what it is like to not get profiled (now that I'm older and have short hair and a nicer car.) Because I've lived, worked and interacted with various minorities enough to hear their stories and see how they respond to being treated with disrespect by authorities. Because I care about justice for all.

So you know how you and your friends are. Racial jokes and racist stereotypes. There are a lot of people that aren't like that and you are projecting your experiences and emotions onto others when you assume "that's how they are". That is actually racism. It just sounds strange because it is your own race that you are assigning these negative stereotypes
 

ttwtt78640

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Duh nothing. It is not beyond belief for young folks to act irrational when provoked. I've seen it at many a party during my college years. Thank gawd it wasn't legal to allow death by a law otherwise they're would be quite a few dead men around. It opens a door to allow such unintentional consequences.

Self defense has been used long before you ever went to college, get a grip on reality. ;)
 

Hard Truth

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So you know how you and your friends are. Racial jokes and racist stereotypes. There are a lot of people that aren't like that and you are projecting your experiences and emotions onto others when you assume "that's how they are". That is actually racism. It just sounds strange because it is your own race that you are assigning these negative stereotypes

Not my friends or family, rather, people I have overheard or read their opinions in various places, including on this forum.
 

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So you know how you and your friends are. Racial jokes and racist stereotypes. There are a lot of people that aren't like that and you are projecting your experiences and emotions onto others when you assume "that's how they are". That is actually racism. It just sounds strange because it is your own race that you are assigning these negative stereotypes

I believe the point is anyone can be profiled. Age, race, physical appearance, etc...If you don't believe it exist fine but many of us know it certainly does and the fact that this lad was being followed surely speaks volumes.
 

ttwtt78640

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You are making a presumption that is not neccarily true. No one knows for sure how exactly the events unfolded. I would point out that you are still pointing to one group of people playing up race, and not to another. You are still using this as a political tool, and that is not the way to have an honest discussion.

What evidence was introduced in the Zimmerman trial about race? What was the conclusion of the FBI investigation of Zimmerman's actions? Honest discussions start with being honest.
 
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