White race-baiters.

[Diving Mullah]

Now I can understand why the poverty pimps like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton engage in their race-baiting garbage and insinuate that racism is a "white thing". Their motivations are clear enough, but what about all the liberal whites acting like they are apostles of the race-baiting poverty pimps. What is going through their minds? Are they projecting their own racism on everyone else and is that what causes the enormous white guilt effect so obvious in their rhetoric? I have no such white guilt problem. I see racism when there's actual racism, not at every opportunity to try to make things about race I don't think anybody owes anyone anything based on race and, in fact, based on anything other than mutual respect.

What the F*** is wrong with people? Why do you liberal "whites" feel that all your fellow "whites" are racist bastards that should be hanging their heads in shame over what they did to the poor blacks. Did you find out your great great grandaddy was a brutal slave-owner on a cotton planation or something? Explain your guilt because I don't get it. None of my ancestors had plantations or owned slaves. Hell, not many of my ancestors were even as high up economically as the middle class we aspired to become when I was a kid. Poor folks that are half Cuban and half Irish like me, growing up in poverty and struggling to get ahead sure as hell don't understand why some of you guilt-tripping white libs seem to feel that it's a bed of roses for white folks and that all white folks should be spending their lives apologizing for **** that they actually didn't have a damned thing to do with.

White guilt... can any of you libs all eaten up with it explain where the HELL it's coming from, because I just don't get it.

In a country that one of its bloodiest war was over enslavement of a group of people and until 60 segregation was a norm in many States in this country is rather naivete to argue of traces of racism has been wiped out in 60 years.

Now there are certain markers in the society to see how well or how poorly certain group of people have advanced in society...for example located the legislative body, say in Mississippi versus California. IN both states 13% of the population are blacks, what percentage are elected in should be 13%. Now is California blacks smarter than Mississippi ones? Then why the disparity?


The same is true at federal level. The percentage of minorities in GOP versus Democrats. Clearly the system is skewed.


Now lets look at how bad the system is skewed...

One. The US has seen a surge in arrests and putting people in jail over the last four decades. Most of the reason is the war on drugs. Yet whites and blacks engage in drug offenses, possession and sales, at roughly comparable rates – according to a report on race and drug enforcement published by Human Rights Watch in May 2008. While African Americans comprise 13% of the US population and 14% of monthly drug users they are 37% of the people arrested for drug offenses – according to 2009 Congressional testimony by Marc Mauer of The Sentencing Project.

Two. The police stop blacks and Latinos at rates that are much higher than whites. In New York City, where people of color make up about half of the population, 80% of the NYPD stops were of blacks and Latinos. When whites were stopped, only 8% were frisked. When blacks and Latinos are stopped 85% were frisked according to information provided by the NYPD. The same is true most other places as well. In a California study, the ACLU found blacks are three times more likely to be stopped than whites.

Three. Since 1970, drug arrests have skyrocketed rising from 320,000 to close to 1.6 million according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics of the U.S. Department of Justice.

African Americans are arrested for drug offenses at rates 2 to 11 times higher than the rate for whites – according to a May 2009 report on disparity in drug arrests by Human Rights Watch.

Four. Once arrested, blacks are more likely to remain in prison awaiting trial than whites. For example, the New York state division of criminal justice did a 1995 review of disparities in processing felony arrests and found that in some parts of New York blacks are 33% more likely to be detained awaiting felony trials than whites facing felony trials.

Five. Once arrested, 80% of the people in the criminal justice system get a public defender for their lawyer. Race plays a big role here as well. Stop in any urban courtroom and look a the color of the people who are waiting for public defenders. Despite often heroic efforts by public defenders the system gives them much more work and much less money than the prosecution. The American Bar Association, not a radical bunch, reviewed the US public defender system in 2004 and concluded “All too often, defendants plead guilty, even if they are innocent, without really understanding their legal rights or what is occurring…The fundamental right to a lawyer that America assumes applies to everyone accused of criminal conduct effectively does not exist in practice for countless people across the US.”

Six. African Americans are frequently illegally excluded from criminal jury service according to a June 2010 study released by the Equal Justice Initiative. For example in Houston County, Alabama, 8 out of 10 African Americans qualified for jury service have been struck by prosecutors from serving on death penalty cases.

Seven. Trials are rare. Only 3 to 5 percent of criminal cases go to trial – the rest are plea bargained. Most African Americans defendants never get a trial. Most plea bargains consist of promise of a longer sentence if a person exercises their constitutional right to trial. As a result, people caught up in the system, as the American Bar Association points out, plead guilty even when innocent. Why? As one young man told me recently, “Who wouldn’t rather do three years for a crime they didn’t commit than risk twenty-five years for a crime they didn’t do?”

Eight. The U.S. Sentencing Commission reported in March 2010 that in the federal system black offenders receive sentences that are 10% longer than white offenders for the same crimes. Marc Mauer of the Sentencing Project reports African Americans are 21% more likely to receive mandatory minimum sentences than white defendants and 20% more like to be sentenced to prison than white drug defendants.

Nine. The longer the sentence, the more likely it is that non-white people will be the ones getting it. A July 2009 report by the Sentencing Project found that two-thirds of the people in the US with life sentences are non-white. In New York, it is 83%.

Ten. As a result, African Americans, who are 13% of the population and 14% of drug users, are not only 37% of the people arrested for drugs but 56% of the people in state prisons for drug offenses. Marc Mauer May 2009 Congressional Testimony for The Sentencing Project.

Eleven. The US Bureau of Justice Statistics concludes that the chance of a black male born in 2001 of going to jail is 32% or 1 in three. Latino males have a 17% chance and white males have a 6% chance. Thus black boys are five times and Latino boys nearly three times as likely as white boys to go to jail.

Twelve. So, while African American juvenile youth is but 16% of the population, they are 28% of juvenile arrests, 37% of the youth in juvenile jails and 58% of the youth sent to adult prisons. 2009 Criminal Justice Primer, The Sentencing Project.

Thirteen. Remember that the US leads the world in putting our own people into jail and prison. The New York Times reported in 2008 that the US has five percent of the world’s population but a quarter of the world’s prisoners, over 2.3 million people behind bars, dwarfing other nations. The US rate of incarceration is five to eight times higher than other highly developed countries and black males are the largest percentage of inmates according to ABC News.

Fourteen. Even when released from prison, race continues to dominate. A study by Professor Devah Pager of the University of Wisconsin found that 17% of white job applicants with criminal records received call backs from employers while only 5% of black job applicants with criminal records received call backs. Race is so prominent in that study that whites with criminal records actually received better treatment than blacks without criminal records!


Of course we all know this...not to this detailed but we know this except we choose to ignore and blame the other for being racist! This a lot easier than actually accepting there is a problem and try to fix it.


Diving Mulalh

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Self defense has been used long before you ever went to college, get a grip on reality.

Never saw a gun fight break out so each side could defend themselves.

 

[Redress]

What evidence was introduced in the Zimmerman trial about race? What was the conclusion of the FBI investigation of Zimmerman's actions? Honest discussions start with being honest.

Who was there at the time? Not making presumptions based simply on a lack of evidence is being honest. You will note I did not call Zimmerman a racist, not claimed he acted based on race. You are right, an honest discussion requires being honest, and it also involves not making assumptions based on what you want to be true.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Never saw a gun fight break out so each side could defend themselves.

Visit Chicago, ask where you should not go and then go there.

 

[roughdraft274]

What the F*** is wrong with people? Why do you liberal "whites" feel that all your fellow "whites" are racist bastards that should be hanging their heads in shame over what they did to the poor blacks. .

White guilt is a thing you heard on talk radio adn assumed it was true. I'm white and liberal and have never felt guilty because of it. Apparently you think "white guilt" is the same as actually being able to acknowledge reality.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Who was there at the time? Not making presumptions based simply on a lack of evidence is being honest. You will note I did not call Zimmerman a racist, not claimed he acted based on race. You are right, an honest discussion requires being honest, and it also involves not making assumptions based on what you want to be true.

Exactly. So, absent any evidence of race being a factor, much less a major factor, then why is Obama using this case as the "catalyst" for a having a conversation about race? Simply because the race hustling, poverty pimps are all over this "issue" does not make it a racial issue. Justice for Trayvon has been done, accept the jury's verdict and move on.

 

[Fenton]

I believe the point is anyone can be profiled. Age, race, physical appearance, etc...If you don't believe it exist fine but many of us know it certainly does and the fact that this lad was being followed surely speaks volumes.

The " lad " being followed is irrelevent and racism will continue as long as it's charge, whether it's warranted or not, still holds political capital.

Trayvon Martin statistically speaking had far more to fear from his African American peers than he did from a " white-hispanic".

As long as that issue is ignored it's very dificult for many Americans to take the term " racism" seriously.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Visit Chicago, ask where you should not go and then go there.

Not sure what you mean by this ttwtt. Do you think killings in the street that take place in Chicago should be the norm?

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

The " lad " being followed is irrelevent and racism will continue as long as it's charge, whether it's warranted or not, still holds political capital.

Why is it irrelevant?

Also you said, "Trayvon Martin statistically speaking had far more to fear from his African American peers than he did from a "white-hispanic". What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Not sure what you mean by this ttwtt. Do you think killings in the street that take place in Chicago should be the norm?

I thought you wanted to see what a typical gun crime looked like. Of course there should not be killings in the street yet, in the lawless "tribal zones" of many major cities, that is exactly what happens. The "no snitching" code of "the hood" makes these cases virtually impossible to solve - one gang zaps a member (or suspected member) of another gang and others get caught in the crossfire.

 

[Papa bull]

I believe the point is anyone can be profiled. Age, race, physical appearance, etc...If you don't believe it exist fine but many of us know it certainly does and the fact that this lad was being followed surely speaks volumes.

They think a black guy in a hoodie moseying through a neighborhood that ain't his might be up to no good.

They think anyone who suspects that the kid might be up to no good must be a racist.

You're right "they" can be anyone and the object of the profiling can be anyone.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

I thought you wanted to see what a typical gun crime looked like. Of course there should not be killings in the street yet, in the lawless "tribal zones" of many major cities, that is exactly what happens. The "no snitching" code of "the hood" makes these cases virtually impossible to solve - one gang zaps a member (or suspected member) of another gang and others get caught in the crossfire.

Exactly. Not a good scenario to bring anywhere.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

They think a black guy in a hoodie moseying through a neighborhood that ain't his might be up to no good.

They think anyone who suspects that the kid might be up to no good must be a racist.

You're right "they" can be anyone and the object of the profiling can be anyone.

Wow, did we just agree on something today papa? That is EXACTLY why such laws have unintentional consequences.

 

[Cephus]

Why is it irrelevant?

Also you said, "Trayvon Martin statistically speaking had far more to fear from his African American peers than he did from a "white-hispanic". What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Because the black race-baiters are using it as a political tool to further their agenda. If it's black-on-white violence or black-on-black violence, they don't call it racism, but the second anyone remotely light skinned attacks anyone remotely dark skinned, they're up in arms. For people who want to live in a color-blind world, they can see nothing whatsoever but color.

 

[FederalRepublic]

White guilt is a thing you heard on talk radio adn assumed it was true. I'm white and liberal and have never felt guilty because of it. Apparently you think "white guilt" is the same as actually being able to acknowledge reality.

I've been told by a leftist that I should feel guilty for my white privelege. Do you think "talk radio" made it up?

 

[Hard Truth]

In a country that one of its bloodiest war was over enslavement of a group of people and until 60 segregation was a norm in many States in this country is rather naivete to argue of traces of racism has been wiped out in 60 years.

Now there are certain markers in the society to see how well or how poorly certain group of people have advanced in society...for example located the legislative body, say in Mississippi versus California. IN both states 13% of the population are blacks, what percentage are elected in should be 13%. Now is California blacks smarter than Mississippi ones? Then why the disparity?


The same is true at federal level. The percentage of minorities in GOP versus Democrats. Clearly the system is skewed.


Now lets look at how bad the system is skewed...

One. The US has seen a surge in arrests and putting people in jail over the last four decades. Most of the reason is the war on drugs. Yet whites and blacks engage in drug offenses, possession and sales, at roughly comparable rates – according to a report on race and drug enforcement published by Human Rights Watch in May 2008. While African Americans comprise 13% of the US population and 14% of monthly drug users they are 37% of the people arrested for drug offenses – according to 2009 Congressional testimony by Marc Mauer of The Sentencing Project.

Two. The police stop blacks and Latinos at rates that are much higher than whites. In New York City, where people of color make up about half of the population, 80% of the NYPD stops were of blacks and Latinos. When whites were stopped, only 8% were frisked. When blacks and Latinos are stopped 85% were frisked according to information provided by the NYPD. The same is true most other places as well. In a California study, the ACLU found blacks are three times more likely to be stopped than whites.

Three. Since 1970, drug arrests have skyrocketed rising from 320,000 to close to 1.6 million according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics of the U.S. Department of Justice.

African Americans are arrested for drug offenses at rates 2 to 11 times higher than the rate for whites – according to a May 2009 report on disparity in drug arrests by Human Rights Watch.

Four. Once arrested, blacks are more likely to remain in prison awaiting trial than whites. For example, the New York state division of criminal justice did a 1995 review of disparities in processing felony arrests and found that in some parts of New York blacks are 33% more likely to be detained awaiting felony trials than whites facing felony trials.

Five. Once arrested, 80% of the people in the criminal justice system get a public defender for their lawyer. Race plays a big role here as well. Stop in any urban courtroom and look a the color of the people who are waiting for public defenders. Despite often heroic efforts by public defenders the system gives them much more work and much less money than the prosecution. The American Bar Association, not a radical bunch, reviewed the US public defender system in 2004 and concluded “All too often, defendants plead guilty, even if they are innocent, without really understanding their legal rights or what is occurring…The fundamental right to a lawyer that America assumes applies to everyone accused of criminal conduct effectively does not exist in practice for countless people across the US.”

Six. African Americans are frequently illegally excluded from criminal jury service according to a June 2010 study released by the Equal Justice Initiative. For example in Houston County, Alabama, 8 out of 10 African Americans qualified for jury service have been struck by prosecutors from serving on death penalty cases.

Seven. Trials are rare. Only 3 to 5 percent of criminal cases go to trial – the rest are plea bargained. Most African Americans defendants never get a trial. Most plea bargains consist of promise of a longer sentence if a person exercises their constitutional right to trial. As a result, people caught up in the system, as the American Bar Association points out, plead guilty even when innocent. Why? As one young man told me recently, “Who wouldn’t rather do three years for a crime they didn’t commit than risk twenty-five years for a crime they didn’t do?”

Eight. The U.S. Sentencing Commission reported in March 2010 that in the federal system black offenders receive sentences that are 10% longer than white offenders for the same crimes. Marc Mauer of the Sentencing Project reports African Americans are 21% more likely to receive mandatory minimum sentences than white defendants and 20% more like to be sentenced to prison than white drug defendants.

Nine. The longer the sentence, the more likely it is that non-white people will be the ones getting it. A July 2009 report by the Sentencing Project found that two-thirds of the people in the US with life sentences are non-white. In New York, it is 83%.

Ten. As a result, African Americans, who are 13% of the population and 14% of drug users, are not only 37% of the people arrested for drugs but 56% of the people in state prisons for drug offenses. Marc Mauer May 2009 Congressional Testimony for The Sentencing Project.

Eleven. The US Bureau of Justice Statistics concludes that the chance of a black male born in 2001 of going to jail is 32% or 1 in three. Latino males have a 17% chance and white males have a 6% chance. Thus black boys are five times and Latino boys nearly three times as likely as white boys to go to jail.

Twelve. So, while African American juvenile youth is but 16% of the population, they are 28% of juvenile arrests, 37% of the youth in juvenile jails and 58% of the youth sent to adult prisons. 2009 Criminal Justice Primer, The Sentencing Project.

Thirteen. Remember that the US leads the world in putting our own people into jail and prison. The New York Times reported in 2008 that the US has five percent of the world’s population but a quarter of the world’s prisoners, over 2.3 million people behind bars, dwarfing other nations. The US rate of incarceration is five to eight times higher than other highly developed countries and black males are the largest percentage of inmates according to ABC News.

Fourteen. Even when released from prison, race continues to dominate. A study by Professor Devah Pager of the University of Wisconsin found that 17% of white job applicants with criminal records received call backs from employers while only 5% of black job applicants with criminal records received call backs. Race is so prominent in that study that whites with criminal records actually received better treatment than blacks without criminal records!


Of course we all know this...not to this detailed but we know this except we choose to ignore and blame the other for being racist! This a lot easier than actually accepting there is a problem and try to fix it.


Diving Mulalh

Facts don't convince most of the racism deniers. They have a large collection of ways to dismiss the facts with anecdotes and speculation.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Because the black race-baiters are using it as a political tool to further their agenda. If it's black-on-white violence or black-on-black violence, they don't call it racism, but the second anyone remotely light skinned attacks anyone remotely dark skinned, they're up in arms. For people who want to live in a color-blind world, they can see nothing whatsoever but color.

Perhaps, fenton responded to the wrong poster because I've not said anything about black on black violence and it has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I've said.

 

[Papa bull]

Because the black race-baiters are using it as a political tool to further their agenda. If it's black-on-white violence or black-on-black violence, they don't call it racism, but the second anyone remotely light skinned attacks anyone remotely dark skinned, they're up in arms. For people who want to live in a color-blind world, they can see nothing whatsoever but color.

Their racist lenses are very selective. That's how you know it's all dishonest schtick.

 

[Papa bull]

Facts don't convince most of the racism deniers. They have a large collection of ways to dismiss the facts with anecdotes and speculation.

While it is possible to have some success fighting fire with fire, it takes a real fool to think that it's a fine strategy to fight racism with more racism.

 

[Diving Mullah]

While it is possible to have some success fighting fire with fire, it takes a real fool to think that it's a fine strategy to fight racism with more racism.

Except you are confusing Racial discrimination with a Stereo typing. Racial Discrimination is systematic discrimination and wide spread of a one race group by another group. What I had listed is the ample evidence of wide and systematic discrimination against blacks. Stereotyping is what you are describing. These are often isolated and even more often reactionary.

If a group black boys beat white boy for dating a black girl, that is not and institutional discrimination as a matter fact often the reaction to the institutional discrimination. These are cause and effect relationship.

You have to fix the institutional discrimination before you can address the stereotyping and other "racism" as you call it

Diving Mullah

 

[Papa bull]

Except you are confusing Racial discrimination with a Stereo typing. Racial Discrimination is systematic discrimination and wide spread of a one race group by another group. What I had listed is the ample evidence of wide and systematic discrimination against blacks. Stereotyping is what you are describing. These are often isolated and even more often reactionary.

If a group black boys beat white boy for dating a black girl, that is not and institutional discrimination as a matter fact often the reaction to the institutional discrimination. These are cause and effect relationship.

You have to fix the institutional discrimination before you can address the stereotyping and other "racism" as you call it

Diving Mullah

I think you are confusing racism with discrimination. Racial discrimination is, in fact, illegal except in your private life in that you can choose your own friends or do business with whomever you wish and you can discriminate based on race if that's how you roll. Businesses and schools and anything that actually matters may not. Racial discrimination is not systematic and widespread but the perception of it IS, apparently widespread.

Racism is something else. Racism is a type of bigotry that considers one race to be "superior" or "inferior" to some other race. If you think blacks are better than whites, then you are a racist. If you think whites are better than blacks, you are a racist. And oddly enough, you can be a racist and not discriminate. You can also discriminate without being a racist, although it's harder to argue the latter than the former since racism doesn't require action but an action like discrimination does tend to be symptomatic of racism. The point is that they're not the same thing.

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and the rest of the poverty pimps are, in fact, racists. Their actions make it obvious. They think whites, in general, are "bad". If you are guilty of negative stereotyping, you are probably also guilty of racism because your negative stereotype puts down another race and assigns them negative weight. That is racism. The whole meme of "White America was built on the backs of the negro and white America owes us" is racist. It is an attempt to elevate the blacks to a superior position than whites. It breeds contempt and hatred and anger.

What we are seeing is people that are fighting racism with more racism and it's not working. It can't work. It only breeds more animosity.

 

[Verax]

I dunno Papa bs, you seem to be the king race baiter as far as I can tell. Tell us, what is your problem?

 

[Hard Truth]

While it is possible to have some success fighting fire with fire, it takes a real fool to think that it's a fine strategy to fight racism with more racism.

Red herring. I never advocated fighting racism with more racism. I never said that all or most white people are racist.

 

[Papa bull]

Red herring. I never advocated fighting racism with more racism. I never said that all or most white people are racist.

Why do you think everything is about you? I didn't quote you when I said that. So why are you assuming it's all about you?

Nevermind... I did quote you. Didn't mean to. It was an observation that your quote made me think of but it wasn't an observation about you.

 

[Caine]

It's also about the unintended consequences such laws bring about and this case is a good example of that consequence. A young black man wondering a neighbor who looks suspicious turns to murder. I think it puts specific people at risk whenever you use the word "suspicious" and to leave out race being one of those factors is being dishonest as far as I'm concerned.

Can you explain why you seem to think Martin's race was one of the factors of why he was suspicious?

George Zimmerman was asked a question by a call-taker...... He answered the question.

That is all....... are people not supposed to answer questions about suspicious people anymore for fear of being called a racist for even answering the damned question?