Where was the Tea Party During the Bush Years?

[LizardofOz]

Of course, everyone loves bitching though, they just don't make clubs out of them usually.

 

[Mensch]

Well what do you guys think? Bush took us straight from a surplus into an incredible deficit. He spent massive amounts of money paying for a Medicare program that was actually a worse deal than what seniors were getting before. Where were these guys before?

Actually, you've been misled. The Tea Parties formed during Bush's last legislative efforts to enact a stimulus plan.

And if you're ever actually, truly, worried about deficits, then never vote for a liberal democrat. Unfortunately, Bill Clinton's administration was not at all "liberal" when it came to economic policy (partly because he had no choice in some instances).

 

[LizardofOz]

Actually, you've been misled. The Tea Parties formed during Bush's last legislative efforts to enact a stimulus plan.

And if you're ever actually, truly, worried about deficits, then never vote for a liberal democrat. Unfortunately, Bill Clinton's administration was not at all "liberal" when it came to economic policy (partly because he had no choice in some instances).

Honestly, don't really care to much either way. It's just a magical number that doesn't exist anymore. True the tea party did begin forming, but it was more of a platform used by Ron Paul than anything else.

 

[Mensch]

Honestly, don't really care to much either way. It's just a magical number that doesn't exist anymore. True the tea party did begin forming, but it was more of a platform used by Ron Paul than anything else.

What is just a magical number? The deficit?! I never read anything about the Tea Party starting out as a platform for Paul. Sure, they had parallel ideas. But you make it sound like the Tea Party formed in honor of Paul's Revolutionary Manifesto.

 

[VanceMack]

These are Republicans I know personally. You know the type of asshats that are OK with their party doing it, but when the other party does it all hell breaks lose. My grandmother and aunt are one of them. And I know that my view of the Tea Party is probably tainted by that because 3 out of the 4 I have been to were full of people like Bush=good, Obama=bad.

I acknowledged that there were those types...just like the pure dickweed liberals that were all about Bush bad, anything Obama good. Know any of those worthless pieces of ****?

 

[VanceMack]

I don't doubt that the official party may not have started. What I was saying though is that there are still a decent number of people in the Tea Party that would still be complaining about spending.

And you dont think it has ANYTHING to do with a bunch of morons on congress passing a 2000 plus piece of legislation they never even bothered to read that saddled Americans with greater debt? Against the will of the vast majority?

 

[VanceMack]

Well to continue off of what Vance and I were talking about. I am sure there would still be some people in the Tea Party that are just as vocal since McCain didn't seem like he would be that much different than Bush. Would they be as active or as vocal maybe not. But some of the people currently in the Tea Party would still be complaining.

A lot conservatives viewed McCain with greater disdain than Obama. At least The One makes no bones about his intent. McCain...you never know what side of a principled stand he is going to land on. I for one would have voted for Hillary if I could have only voted for McCain or her.

 

[soccerboy22]

I acknowledged that there were those types...just like the pure dickweed liberals that were all about Bush bad, anything Obama good. Know any of those worthless pieces of ****?

I do indeed. I lump them all together as stupid.

And you dont think it has ANYTHING to do with a bunch of morons on congress passing a 2000 plus piece of legislation they never even bothered to read that saddled Americans with greater debt? Against the will of the vast majority?

Again I am basing my opinion on the Tea Party what I have personally seen when I went to some of the events. I have no doubt that there were people there are pissed at the spending. To me most of the people I talked with seemed to be annoyed more at the fact he had a D in front of him name. I even talked to one moron that would have been OK with the spending if it was an R. But if we were talking about the health care bill specifically then yeah I would have joined them in being pissed off with it too. I didn't like the bill at all. Hell a poster here at DP, forgot who, had a great idea for a bill.

A lot conservatives viewed McCain with greater disdain than Obama. At least The One makes no bones about his intent. McCain...you never know what side of a principled stand he is going to land on. I for one would have voted for Hillary if I could have only voted for McCain or her.

Yeah that is one of the things the things that bothered me about McCain. Well that and the constant saying of my friend.

 

[Orion]

Absolutely false. Thats like stating the Green party was just another branch of the Democrats. Point of fact, the Tea Party has and will cost republiucans votes, as did the Green party. When the candidates preferred by the Tea Party are defeated, the tea party members will be more likely to simply stay home and not vote for either candidate.

You are misrepresenting what I said. I never said that the Tea Party was an arm of the Republicans. I said it is subject to Republican maneuvering. Two totally different things. When people like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck become the voice of the movement, it's obvious that other agendas have infiltrated it.

 

[Goshin]

This question has been brought up before.

Conservatives, that is to say fiscal conservatives at least, were never very pleased with Bush. There was much criticism of his domestic spending policies during his presidency by fiscal conservatives.

I've been around a while, and I've seen people getting more and more angry over spending, taxes and debt, since at least the eighties. The pot has been heating up for a long time; it started to bubble at last, with the Tea Party's inception. It was going to happen soon regardless, the timing simply is what it is.

 

[LizardofOz]

This question has been brought up before.

Conservatives, that is to say fiscal conservatives at least, were never very pleased with Bush. There was much criticism of his domestic spending policies during his presidency by fiscal conservatives.

I've been around a while, and I've seen people getting more and more angry over spending, taxes and debt, since at least the eighties. The pot has been heating up for a long time; it started to bubble at last, with the Tea Party's inception. It was going to happen soon regardless, the timing simply is what it is.

So you are saying these people that are 45+ (the majority of tea party supporters) have been mad about spending since they were in their 20s-30s back in the 80s? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

 

[justabubba]

when the economy melted down on the shrub's watch and Obama was elected, the republican party - the one directed by the neocons within it - recognized it was running on empty
there was no way it would return to power on its historical platform
the only element of the republican party that showed life was that which had been dismissed and ignored by the neocon element. Ron Paul's tea party. there were a number of people who had gravitated to advance Paul's libertarian principles at his tea party events ... often when he was uninvited to participate in the mainstream RNC events in the same locale
a sizable segment of the Ron Paul adherents were young people ... not a typical republican demographic
so, "mainstream" republicans co-opted Ron Paul's tea party - where the members shared common principles - especially an embrace of smaller government - and transformed the tea party from something which stood for something into a group of people who were against everything. if you will notice, the tea party and its present members do not stand for anything. they only oppose a variety of things. it has become an organization without a moral or social compass ... metastasized into an angry mob

 

[LizardofOz]

Yeah I will agree that Ron Paul appealed to the younger demographic with the tea party, but it was completely hijacked after a certain point. Mark my words, the tea party in the long run will do the Republicans and conservatives more harm than good. By the end of it though we will not have the traditional republican, nor the neo-cons but something completely different, smaller, and more polarizing than before.

 

[Goshin]

So you are saying these people that are 45+ (the majority of tea party supporters) have been mad about spending since they were in their 20s-30s back in the 80s? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

What you find hard to believe is not my concern.

I've been concerned about overspending, debt and taxes since I was 14... that's when I started working, and also started paying serious attention to politics. That was about 1979.

 

[LizardofOz]

Since you were 14? That's intense.

 

[Josie]

What you find hard to believe is not my concern.

I've been concerned about overspending, debt and taxes since I was 14... that's when I started working, and also started paying serious attention to politics. That was about 1979.

1. Wow.
2. You're old.

I kid, I kid. :cheers:

 

[Goshin]

Since you were 14? That's intense.

It's about the same time that our debt surpassed a trillion dollars. A teacher of mine pointed out that every society whose debt passed a certain point had collapsed economically. It made an impression. Also my first experience with taxation rom my first job. Not to mention this was the tail-end o the Carter years, with the Misery Index, Energy crisis, inflation and so on.

I might have been unusual to take an intrest at 14, but there were plenty o people in their 30s and 40s at the time who were all but in a panic over our economic situation.

The economic problems we've experienced in the 80s, 90s and 2000s are part of the chickens coming home to roost. You can't go on spending more than you take in indefinately. The bill comes due one day.

A trillion bucks a year DEBT lately, and we are STILL adding more costly social programs with every administration. It has to stop. Now would be a good time.

 

[VanceMack]

You are misrepresenting what I said. I never said that the Tea Party was an arm of the Republicans. I said it is subject to Republican maneuvering. Two totally different things. When people like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck become the voice of the movement, it's obvious that other agendas have infiltrated it.

Palin, perhaps...but as I understand it, Glenn Beck has been an advocate of the Tea Party movement since its inception and if Im not mistaken he doesnt consider himself a republican. And as I pointed out...when Beck was on CNN and during the Bush presidency he was VERY vocal about the Bush spending. One of the reasons why CNN hired him and Liberals were OK with him. Be honest...Beck didnt become Satan to the Liberals until he started attacking their God. As long as he was going after Bush he was fine. Sort of like...hey...sort of like Clinton! Clinton was the first black president...right up until he stated that his wife had more experience than The One. And in an instant he lost his ghetto card and was branded a racist.

Where I disagreed with you was your easy assertion that Republicans were using the Tea Party as a platform. Thats simply not true. Any republican that has gained Tea Party acceptance has either already been or adopted Tea Party principles. The Tea Party bounced out several sitting republican congressmen for their actions over their Tea Party rhetoric.

 

[LizardofOz]

This is just my way of looking at it, social programs or not the country will never truly be completely out of debt unless we shut everything down that has to do with government for a few years and raise everyone's taxes, and assume that every American makes $50k a year. The actual real debt (not counting what we owe to China) is a number in fantasy land:

I mean Jesus Christ! In order to combat our debt we wouldn't have to just get rid of these so called "entitlement programs" a drastic reworking of our tax code would have to happen (chances of either side doing this? zilch), taxes would have to go up across the board rich or poor, what people paid into social security would have to be totally absorbed into the national debt, then would come the merging and consolidation or shut down of several dozen government agencies, including branches of our armed forces. Our armed forces alone would keep us from actually ever fully paying off our debt.

Really honestly, I think Warren Buffet needs to be called in and he needs to run the countries finances. The guy is a genius. I recall Obama and McCain both wanted to use him for something in their cabinet why didn't that ever happen?

 

[Kushinator]

This is just my way of looking at it, social programs or not the country will never truly be completely out of debt unless we shut everything down that has to do with government for a few years and raise everyone's taxes, and assume that every American makes $50k a year. The actual real debt (not counting what we owe to China) is a number in fantasy land:

I mean Jesus Christ! In order to combat our debt we wouldn't have to just get rid of these so called "entitlement programs" a drastic reworking of our tax code would have to happen (chances of either side doing this? zilch), taxes would have to go up across the board rich or poor, what people paid into social security would have to be totally absorbed into the national debt, then would come the merging and consolidation or shut down of several dozen government agencies, including branches of our armed forces. Our armed forces alone would keep us from actually ever fully paying off our debt.

Really honestly, I think Warren Buffet needs to be called in and he needs to run the countries finances. The guy is a genius. I recall Obama and McCain both wanted to use him for something in their cabinet why didn't that ever happen?

Debt resolves itself simply by being deficit neutral (bonds/notes/securities eventually mature). You cannot technically "pay down" debt, only wait for it to come off the books. Besides, how else can we conduct monetary policy without a plethora of government securities?

 

[Fiddytree]

Well what do you guys think? Bush took us straight from a surplus into an incredible deficit. He spent massive amounts of money paying for a Medicare program that was actually a worse deal than what seniors were getting before. Where were these guys before?

I vividly recall seeing it at the last months of the administration.

 

[Fiddytree]

Yeah I will agree that Ron Paul appealed to the younger demographic with the tea party, but it was completely hijacked after a certain point. Mark my words, the tea party in the long run will do the Republicans and conservatives more harm than good. By the end of it though we will not have the traditional republican, nor the neo-cons but something completely different, smaller, and more polarizing than before.

I do not see that. It can have success, and because of some success it can fade away. It can fade away because its momentum was quickly halted, or it can fade from never really materializing to anything politically useful in the short term. I do not see the Tea Party as some sort of fanatical bunch that can change everything. It's a political impulse that is likely temporary and will come up when things are perceived as out of control and can provide some usefulness for political platforms before it fades into oblivion by name.

The United States will be fine, and I do not anticipate that the Tea Party is going to ruin the country or anything nearly as dramatic as you make of it. One hint of how hilarious your thought is, is how you slowly build the reputation of the enemy...the traditional republican....replaced by the even worse neocon, who is now almost at risk of losing its power to the worst creation yet...The Tea Party. It's like the promotional videos for television...our protagonist thought he met his match before, but now it is truly bad....that is, until the next season or next film-which is at times a desperate attempt for writers to make something seem more interesting than it is.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Probably hurts creditability. They will complain when a Democrat is in office, but not a Republican when both do a lot of spending.

Tea party took off when Bush announced bailouts.





:failpail:

 

[jambalaya]

Where was the Tea Pary fifty years ago? Somebody simply decided to put a name to the protests against healthcare and government bailouts that were going on. It is not really that complicated. It is pretty stupid to suggest that since you didn't complain at one time you are forever banned to complain in the future. Just because we've named this thing doesn't mean people weren't complaining before.

 

[VanceMack]

Tea party took off when Bush announced bailouts.





:failpail:

Geez...I wonder how many of the hypocrites on the left are out there protesting their antiwar hatred against Obama...