When is Electricity Going to be an Issue?

[Helix]

Absolutely, and it should have been done decades ago while governments of all stripes were wasting money hand over fist - now that it's an issue, they are coming to the taxpayer to pay directly for upgrades.

actually, i'm pretty good with that, as long as they are run both publicly and privately. ****, we've built tons of infrastructure in every other country on earth, and that somehow wasn't socialism. time to nation build right here at home.

 

[CanadaJohn]

actually, i'm pretty good with that, as long as they are run both publicly and privately. ****, we've built tons of infrastructure in every other country on earth, and that somehow wasn't socialism. time to nation build right here at home.

My objection is not with paying for it, it's with having to pay for it again and again and again as tax dollars are frittered away on pet vanity projects and not spent wisely on the core functions of government.

 

[polgara]

My objection is not with paying for it, it's with having to pay for it again and again and again as tax dollars are frittered away on pet vanity projects and not spent wisely on the core functions of government.

:agree: Your earlier analogy of giving the local opera house a facelift instead of upgrading aging infrastructure was spot on! :thumbs:

 

[APACHERAT]

What If Tesla Took 500,000 Gas-Guzzlers Off the Road? (TSLA)

As we "progress" away from oil based cars when is electric production going to be an issue? When people find out each of these cars consume the same power as a small home each day who's going to pay for the juice?

We all are!

It will become a huge issue when you start seeing the huge increase in your electric bill as electrical utilities are being forced to turn to renewable electrical generating facilities. Renewable energy is extremely expensive especially wind and solar.

Just a few days ago I heard i-phones are consuming 10% of all of the worlds electrical power.

>"A new report examining the electricity that powers the global digital ecosystem shows that an Apple iPhone uses more energy in a year than a refrigerator.

According to Mark Mills, CEO of the Digital Power Group and author of the report titled “The Cloud Begins With Coal,” an average iPhone uses about 361 kilowatt-hours each year after factoring wireless connections, data usage and battery charging. A medium-sized refrigerator with an Energy Star rating only uses about 322 KWh a year..."< Apple iPhone Uses More Energy Than A Refrigerator? Report Examines Environmental Impact Of Global Tech Ecosystem



The liberal eviormentalist will have to prey my cold dead hands off the steering wheel of my car that has a big gas guzzling internal combustion engine under the hood to get me to start driving an electric pantywaist car.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Once they get the temperature and cost down in fuel cells they'll probably be the next power source for electric cars and possibly urban housing. They're efficient, clean and will use much less resources, especially if they develop one which uses a clean abundant fuel source.

And until that magical day brownout become blackouts and commerce shuts down as peoples cars won't start up.

 

[grip]

And until that magical day brownout become blackouts and commerce shuts down as peoples cars won't start up.

Fuel cells don't rely on an outside source for electricity they use a chemical reaction to create their own energy. The trick is in finding a clean, abundant fuel source better than hydrogen.

 

[polgara]

Absolutely, and it should have been done decades ago while governments of all stripes were wasting money hand over fist - now that it's an issue, they are coming to the taxpayer to pay directly for upgrades.

The only explanation I can come up with is that there must be a stigma attached to being proactive! Why else do they wait until a crisis to become obvious to begin thinking about things? :naughty:

 

[AngryOldGuy]

The only way you'll have electric cars is if those evil dinosaur burning cars are made illegal like incandescent light bulbs and leaded gasoline. No One in their right mind would buy a car that costs more to purchase initially, after the power price hikes costs more to run, doesn't last as long nor does it have the range per 'tankful' (that takes gawd only knows how long to fill up. Besides we are sitting on an ocean of oil anyway and the original question that would have to be answered: where is all this power going to come from?
didja read that article that pointed out in joules the energy all the dinosaur fueled thingies on our roads currently burn yearly cars trucks trains et al? How much more electrical power generation capabilities (not to mention load leveling across the grid) would be required? There are centuries of dinosaur guts left to get out of the ground before we'll need to switch and by then we'll have batteries like ultra-capacitors that charge instantly, are nearly 100% efficient and last 100,000 charge cycles. Room temperature super conducting electric motors and Fusion reactors making free electricity and I'll have a flying car and the ideal wide just like George Jetson!

 

[CanadaJohn]

The only explanation I can come up with is that there must be a stigma attached to being proactive! Why else do they wait until a crisis to become obvious to begin thinking about things? :naughty:

For me there's a simple explanation - most politicians are bored with the nuts and bolts of good government - it doesn't stroke their egos sufficiently. They need the dog and pony shows in order to feel productive. When was the last time you saw a ribbon cutting ceremony at the site of a new transformer station?

 

[molten_dragon]

What If Tesla Took 500,000 Gas-Guzzlers Off the Road? (TSLA)

As we "progress" away from oil based cars when is electric production going to be an issue? When people find out each of these cars consume the same power as a small home each day who's going to pay for the juice?

We all are!

When is it going to be an issue in what sense? If you mean in terms of when are we going to start having trouble producing enough electricity, then the answer is not for an extremely long time. We use only a tiny fraction of the energy available to us here on earth.

If you mean when are we going to have to start building more power plants to keep up with the demand for the electric cars, it really depends on how fast people adopt them. It's probably going to be a fairly gradual process, so it's unlikely it's going to really stretch our ability to supply electricity faster than we can bring new plants online.

 

[Cecil900]

Does anyone realize that the same community of engineers that is pushing for electric cars is also calling for the power grid to be moved completely to renewable sources without burning fossil fuels?

I see it all the time in the IEEE information I get, IEEE meetings I go to as a student, etc...

Tesla is actually who I hope to be an engineer for.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Tesla is actually who I hope to be an engineer for.

Better hurry up and graduate cuz Tesla's never going to turn a real profit and will go poof very soon
as for renewable sources

 

[Montecresto]

Does anyone realize that the same community of engineers that is pushing for electric cars is also calling for the power grid to be moved completely to renewable sources without burning fossil fuels?

I see it all the time in the IEEE information I get, IEEE meetings I go to as a student, etc...

Tesla is actually who I hope to be an engineer for.

Hope you make it. This is the best way to go IMO. It's good for the planet, fossil fuels are so dirty and yesterday.

 

[polgara]

For me there's a simple explanation - most politicians are bored with the nuts and bolts of good government - it doesn't stroke their egos sufficiently. They need the dog and pony shows in order to feel productive. When was the last time you saw a ribbon cutting ceremony at the site of a new transformer station?

True that, sad to say! :thumbdown: Unfortunately, the nuts and bolts are what count, as we are about to learn, IMO!

 

[AngryOldGuy]

yeah fossil fuels are so dirty and yesterday they are downright evil too

 

[Cecil900]

Better hurry up and graduate cuz Tesla's never going to turn a real profit and will go poof very soon

After 10 Years in the Business, Tesla Finally Turns a Profit | Autopia | Wired.com

Does that mean they are absolutely secure? No. But its a promising start.

as for renewable sources

And?

My bet is on fusion energy research actually. I've been to the NIF at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory actually and saw whats going on there on the inside, and the engineering behind it.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

hah you'll be retired collecting SSI long before we even get anywhere near fulfilling Lawson's criterion.
as for Tesla the only money made there was the guys that shorted the stock recently They cleaned up
If Tesla Would Stop Selling Cars, We'd All Save Some Money

 

[Cecil900]

hah you'll be retired collecting SSI long before we even get anywhere near fulfilling Lawson's criterion.
as for Tesla the only money made there was the guys that shorted the stock recently They cleaned up
If Tesla Would Stop Selling Cars, We'd All Save Some Money

I fully support tax credits on electric vehicles as an incentive, and think its a good investment by the government.

And I never said fusion energy would come tomorrow. Science and engineering is a slow process. What makes things difficult is that the development of devices in other areas often happens faster than we can approve research in an area like Fusion energy.

What I mean by this is that the NIF was delayed for years, and then once it was built there was technology available at that point that would allow them to shrink down the building of the experiment in which they were doing. They have a design that is a fraction of a fraction of the current lab setup for their experiment, and would thereby allow them to conduct the experiment using less electricity to produce the same reaction. However, they cannot build this new NIF facility because it would require another government grant, more red tape, etc..

Scientific research is not an easy process.

 

[Montecresto]

yeah fossil fuels are so dirty and yesterday they are downright evil too

Ok you big kidder, I live in a solar house, catch the rain water in cisterns, drive a Prius and actually like it all.

 

[Montecresto]

Why is renewable energy always being discouraged. Is it just the people with stock in oil.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

hah I think every bloody dime should be thrown into fusion energy research screw trying to sell electric cars to people that don't want them. If electricity became virtually free as a result of widespread commercial fusion power generation you couldn't build enough electric cars to fill the demand
oh and did the boys n girls at the laser place admit they failed miserably with fusion and now justify their continued existence solely based on nooclear weapons research? prolly not eh?

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Why is renewable energy always being discouraged. Is it just the people with stock in oil.

simple economics cuz windmills n solar cells are silly as long as there's still oceans of oil left to burn

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Scientific research is not an easy process.

It is as easy as pie just throw gobs of money at it and develop a sense of national urgency
(witness the Manhattan project)
thing is no matter how much money you pour down the green energy rathole as long as there's oil
dinosaurs will always be cheaper unless you tax the daylights out of em or straight up outlaw them.
Wanna guess what a gallon of gasoline would be going for today if it was tax exempt from before the
drilling lease was written up to the instant it poured into you tank? No you really don't wanna know...
hah and I'm talking pure gasoline not this stupid ethanol reformate crap

 

[Cecil900]

hah I think every bloody dime should be thrown into fusion energy research screw trying to sell electric cars to people that don't want them. If electricity became virtually free as a result of widespread commercial fusion power generation you couldn't build enough electric cars to fill the demand
oh and did the boys n girls at the laser place admit they failed miserably with fusion and now justify their continued existence solely based on nooclear weapons research? prolly not eh?

Yeah they failed bro. It took them 10 years to build the facility which was designed around 90s tech since thats when it was being discussed, and finally opened in 2009. They've had 4 years bro. I wouldn't disqualify them yet.

It wasn't even being done tested as operational until October 2010.

 

[Cecil900]

It is as easy as pie just throw gobs of money at it and develop a sense of national urgency
(witness the Manhattan project)

**** you. I would love to see you design and engineer such a facility as NIF. The stuff they do at LLNL these days is far beyond your comprehension, and because of scientific illiterate people like yourself it goes underfunded and under appreciated, despite the great benefit these things could offer society.

“We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology.”
Carl Sagan