When is Electricity Going to be an Issue?

[CalGun]

In my location the utility is the govt. we have a utility district ie govt agency. I realize most have regulated private utilities. Govt enjoys great control over them.

Please decide whether it is utilities who are controlling our thermostats or the government. You're changing your position so often that you're making me dizzy.

 

[CalGun]

Solar is viable only with cheap Chinese panels. Less of course we want to double the rates on poor people.

There is more and more local generation. In fact, from personal observation those who buy an EV (not a hybrid, but full EV) also go for panels or some form of home generation at the same time. Most of my old home mountain community town has solar panels and small wind generation going. Not enough I think to replace the utility suppied juice, but still, adds to the generation picture.

Add to this we only get to use about half of what we generate from large generation sources (hydro dams, windfarms, etc.). Currently 47% is lost in the transmission. That can be improved.

 

[CanadaJohn]

smart metering might will help some day.

We have smart metering here in Ontario. All it does is provide the government the opportunity to gouge the consumer mercilessly while claiming that you can save if you just do your laundry at 2am. Economies all over Europe are crashing due to the high cost of so-called "green" energy while hucksters like Al Gore fly around the world, run to the bank and count their money

 

[What if...?]

And that would mean using even more fossil fuel than we currently do, so what's the point?

No.

Less fuel.for the same number of miles traveled.

Automobile ICEs are horridly inefficient. Accleration/deceleration cycles.

Also, electrics don't care where the electricity comes from. So as new sources come on line there's no further need to change the fleet.

Plus, an electric fleet means grid storage. Upping grid efficiency considerably.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Smart metering doesn't mean that the government gets to decide how much of what you consume -- it is a term used to describe meters that accurately measure usage, report that usage to the utility directly, and permit remote activation or deactivation. They can also instantly report outages and utility quality issues.

I'd like to think that a similar accuracy would be passed on to commercial and industrial customers, but the utilities have been bilking them for years.

At any rate, the more in-touch the utility companies are with the grid, the more efficiently they can generate and distribute the power needed by the public. This isn't about government control, this is about greater efficiency in private industry.

NONSENSE..

Smart metering is the tool by which government forces reductions in residential consumer energy usage by making it prohibitively expensive. Add to it a push to incorporate inefficient, highly expensive, green energy sources to the mix and you have a recipe for economic depression.

 

[What if...?]

An 'smart phone' sucks down more electricity in a year than a medium efficiency refrigerator. Most of the 'greenies' have no idea about how big their footprint really is.

You got a cite for that?

 

[CanadaJohn]

The biggest question related to this thread is: When will the 'entitled' start screaming that electricity is a RIGHT?

Electricity is about as close to a right in today's society as you can get. If you lived through the great north east power failure of summer of 2003 as I did, you know that in a big city like Toronto, no electricity means no normal life, just day to day minimal existence, and you can have it, not me. The eco-terrorists want us all to go back to living in caves - I'm all for having them live in caves, they're just not taking me with them.

 

[ecofarm]

Electricity will never "be an issue". Yes, the world is consuming more and more electricity and that's ok. Energy consumption is a good indicator of economic stimulus.

We do need to remove our dependence on coal and petrol more and more. Not because of higher prices or the environment as much as it being the smart thing to do.

Iceland is doing a very smart thing. It's using geothermal energy to make up for a lot of the electricity consumption of it's residents. Currently, it's the world leader in geothermal energy production for national needs. A friend of mine who works at a student NGO in Iceland who studies energy engineering told me 2 years ago that he can't wait to graduate (he graduated this year like me) so that he can work at some new geothermal plant that is in plans or smth. Good pay, good job, good work.

Powerful geothermal springs and potential to exploits exists in most European countries as well as western USA.
If the USA would take the money it gives to big oil in tax cuts and tax breaks as well as stimulus packages to big oil, and invest all that money in geothermal research and development, it could become the worlds' leader in 10 years.

Kenya is into it.

Kenya is currently the largest producer of geothermal energy in Africa. It is one of two countries in Africa that produce geothermal energy this also includes Ethiopia. In 2010, geothermal accounted for almost 20 percent of Kenya's total electricity generation. The country has the potential to produce 10,000 megawatts of geothermal-powered electricity, according to Kenya's state-owned Geothermal Development Company.[1] Total renewable energy capacity is at 60%.[2] With most of that coming from Hydro-Power.

Energy in Kenya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CanadaJohn]

Please decide whether it is utilities who are controlling our thermostats or the government. You're changing your position so often that you're making me dizzy.

Who do you think regulates the utilities?

 

[Harshaw]

No.

Less fuel.for the same number of miles traveled.

Automobile ICEs are horridly inefficient. Accleration/deceleration cycles.

Plus, an electric fleet means grid storage. Upping grid efficiency considerably.

OK, then demonstrate the math on that.

Also, electrics don't care where the electricity comes from. So as new sources come on line there's no further need to change the fleet.

Doesn't have a thing to do with what I said.

 

[What if...?]

Solar is viable only with cheap Chinese panels. Less of course we want to double the rates on poor people.

Smaller scale focusing solar is coming on line.

Not individual home scale yet, but good for housing developments, businesses.

 

[CalGun]

Instead of giving a $4k or so break in taxes on electric cars we should require $4k be used to produce the juice. Buyers should have to go solar at home and pay for it.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

That is what I said.

And yes, you would need more, because you're adding at least two levels of intermediate power between the fuel and car, and you will lose efficiency with each. Burning the fuel in the cars is the most energy-efficient way of using it.

You mean kind of like the intermediate steps of distilling the fuel, delivering it to thousands of individual stations nationwide, then dispensing the fuel at each of those stations?

 

[CanadaJohn]

Smaller scale focusing solar is coming on line.

Not individual home scale yet, but good for housing developments, businesses.

Ask yourself, what percentage of the population both lives in single family homes and plans on staying in that home for the twenty plus years it takes for an "upgrade" to green power sources to start paying dividends?

 

[Fisher]

We have smart metering here in Ontario. All it does is provide the government the opportunity to gouge the consumer mercilessly while claiming that you can save if you just do your laundry at 2am. Economies all over Europe are crashing due to the high cost of so-called "green" energy while hucksters like Al Gore fly around the world, run to the bank and count their money

It will help get more out of the electrical grid we have without having to make radical (and expensive) upgrades over a shorter period of time. A lot of the system was built when 110/220 was enough. Now we have increased demand for 220/440 service. The US sucks up a lot of electricity and it is going to get even worse without electric cars being the norm. We have been blessed that this has been a mild summer on the east coast. If this had been a scorching hot summer, more people would realize how this is an issue because of black and brown outs. Smart metering when implemented fully should allow people to do whatever they want when they want by cycling through different households on the grid to idle heating coils and the like 30 seconds at a time when need be during peak consumption. I have no problem with it just so long as the appliances are affordable.

 

[CalGun]

When I started solar the small system I could afford was $1600 it's now under $900. Only the city permit for me was $380 and is now $1,500. So govt is doing its best at making solar ineffective.

Smaller scale focusing solar is coming on line.

Not individual home scale yet, but good for housing developments, businesses.

 

[CalGun]

So why are so many demanding the removal of smart meters in CA?

It will help get more out of the electrical grid we have without having to make radical (and expensive) upgrades over a shorter period of time. A lot of the system was built when 110/220 was enough. Now we have increased demand for 220/440 service. The US sucks up a lot of electricity and it is going to get even worse without electric cars being the norm. We have been blessed that this has been a mild summer on the east coast. If this had been a scorching hot summer, more people would realize how this is an issue because of black and brown outs. Smart metering when implemented fully should allow people to do whatever they want when they want by cycling through different households on the grid to idle heating coils and the like 30 seconds at a time when need be during peak consumption. I have no problem with it just so long as the appliances are affordable.

 

[CalGun]

SmartMeter

Smart meters are so smart utilities here had to create an opt out solution.

 

[Harshaw]

You mean kind of like the intermediate steps of distilling the fuel, delivering it to thousands of individual stations nationwide, then dispensing the fuel at each of those stations?

You don't really avoid that by using the fuel to generate electricity. You still need to refine it and deliver it, and while you might save a bit on having fewer destinations, there will still be considerably more of those than there are now in order to keep up with the electrical demand.

Dispensing the fuel to the cars doesn't add energy inefficiency. You have to pump the fuel the same number of times either way.

 

[CanadaJohn]

It will help get more out of the electrical grid we have without having to make radical (and expensive) upgrades over a shorter period of time. A lot of the system was built when 110/220 was enough. Now we have increased demand for 220/440 service. The US sucks up a lot of electricity and it is going to get even worse without electric cars being the norm. We have been blessed that this has been a mild summer on the east coast. If this had been a scorching hot summer, more people would realize how this is an issue because of black and brown outs. Smart metering when implemented fully should allow people to do whatever they want when they want by cycling through different households on the grid to idle heating coils and the like 30 seconds at a time when need be during peak consumption. I have no problem with it just so long as the appliances are affordable.

Doesn't matter what good it can do, it is TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE. We've got seniors on fixed incomes being forced from their homes or living in the dark because they can't pay the bills. We've got businesses relocating out of Ontario because the cost of electricity in a province where electricity is abundant is TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE.

We've got governments who are/were BRAIN DEAD, sending money to other countries, studying cow farts, tossing billions at eco-scams while our infrastructure rots from neglect and then they claim people are going to have to pay more because we have to upgrade the system. If people had electric guns, they'd swallow the cost just to be able to line em up and shoot the whole damn bunch of em.

 

[Fisher]

So why are so many demanding the removal of smart meters in CA?

Because 1) they are more accurate so people pay more than they used to and 2) Granola people are convinced that everything that is wrong with their body is connected to the high frequency radio waves and radiation from smart meters :shock: The reason they are not yet saving people money yet is because the idling technology is not integrated into our appliances.

PG&E Begins Removing ‘Smart’ Meters Due to Health Effects | Stop Smart Meters!

 

[Fisher]

Doesn't matter what good it can do, it is TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE. We've got seniors on fixed incomes being forced from their homes or living in the dark because they can't pay the bills. We've got businesses relocating out of Ontario because the cost of electricity in a province where electricity is abundant is TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE.

We've got governments who are/were BRAIN DEAD, sending money to other countries, studying cow farts, tossing billions at eco-scams while our infrastructure rots from neglect and then they claim people are going to have to pay more because we have to upgrade the system. If people had electric guns, they'd swallow the cost just to be able to line em up and shoot the whole damn bunch of em.

Our base utility charge went down when they installed smart meters in my city to pass on the savings from having fewer meter readers :shrug:

 

[CalGun]

The people also don't like the "mans" control over their lives. Add to that the control is so that rich people can drive expensive subsidized cars and it's absurd.

Because 1) they are more accurate so people pay more than they used to and 2) Granola people are convinced that everything that is wrong with their body is connected to the high frequency radio waves and radiation from smart meters :shock: The reason they are not yet saving people money yet is because the idling technology is not integrated into our appliances.

PG&E Begins Removing ‘Smart’ Meters Due to Health Effects | Stop Smart Meters!

 

[Fisher]

The people also don't like the "mans" control over their lives. Add to that the control is so that rich people can drive expensive subsidized cars and it's absurd.

Then buy you a solar kit or propane generator and unplug yourself from Da Man's evil thumb.

 

[CalGun]

We have a disparency of rates from $.06 / .07 cents a kilowatt hour in some states to $.50 in some areas of CA at peak moments and usages. The high norm in CA is .33 right now. These are only going to get worse as the govt subsidizes the riches elite toys and fleets of juice guzzlers.

Doesn't matter what good it can do, it is TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE. We've got seniors on fixed incomes being forced from their homes or living in the dark because they can't pay the bills. We've got businesses relocating out of Ontario because the cost of electricity in a province where electricity is abundant is TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE.

We've got governments who are/were BRAIN DEAD, sending money to other countries, studying cow farts, tossing billions at eco-scams while our infrastructure rots from neglect and then they claim people are going to have to pay more because we have to upgrade the system. If people had electric guns, they'd swallow the cost just to be able to line em up and shoot the whole damn bunch of em.