When DOES Illegal Immigration finally become a 'crisis'?

[Praxas]

1) I can legally shoot home invaders. That requires no multiplication.

You are clearly evading what I am asking. Fine.

3) We have enforcement of those traffic laws - the signs are merely reminders of the laws. It should be obvious that a "keep out" sign or fence is not going to stop illegal entry.

And we have enforcement of immigration hence why over 30,000+ people were caught. So then why the all or nothing approach from you?

 

[ataraxia]

We bring in approx 1 million legal immigrants every year. But there are unknown numbers of illegal immigrants that gain entry into this country every year. The exact amount is unknown. But lets start with what we KNOW.

Here's what we know: the problem reached a peak back in 2000, and has been declining since. There is actually now a net movement OUT of the country.



The crime rate among those immigrants is lower than the baseline crime rate here in the country already. There is no evidence there are any terrorists among them, nor any significant drug trafficking. That's all happening in other venues.

So looking at the facts, it's really hard to see a crisis needing so much drama.

 

[ttwtt78640]

How is that "ignoring the problem"?

By hampering attempts to stop and/or deport illegal immigrants. Those who use the "logic" that we need no more effective border security and who now pretend that physical barriers are no longer a valid means of helping to attain it. Try to explain why a border fence was (and still is?) "moral" but a border wall (now simply a higher fence) is "immoral".

 

[ttwtt78640]

1) You are clearly evading what I am asking. Fine.



2) And we have enforcement of immigration hence why over 30,000+ people were caught. So then why the all or nothing approach from you?

1) Nope, I am saying that I feel no need to "multiply" that which now allows unilateral, total and immediate removal of the threat.

2) We do not have adequate enforcement of immigration law or we would not have at least 12M (and likely many more) illegal immigrants currently inside the country.

 

[Cardinal]

By hampering attempts to stop and/or deport illegal immigrants. Those who use the "logic" that we need no more effective border security and who now pretend that physical barriers are no longer a valid means of helping to attain it. Try to explain why a border fence was (and still is?) "moral" but a border wall (now simply a higher fence) is "immoral".

It's a moot point. If the wall had rational basis for it it wouldn't need to be built on a foundation of lies, such as who would pay for it, how much it would cost, would it would look like or be made of, that terrorists were flooding into the borders along with immigrants, or the prevailing idea that immigrants were responsible for some significant number of crimes. If the wall was a serious issue it would have been addressed seriously. Instead, it's been handled by Trump in the least serious manner.

 

[tres borrachos]

Can someone tell me the odds of me or any one of us in this thread being murdered by an illegal immigrant? Based on the statistics, I mean.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It's a moot point. If the wall had rational basis for it it wouldn't need to be built on a foundation of lies, such as who would pay for it, how much it would cost, would it would look like or be made of, that terrorists were flooding into the borders along with immigrants, or the prevailing idea that immigrants were responsible for some significant number of crimes. If the wall was a serious issue it would have been addressed seriously. Instead, it's been handled by Trump in the least serious manner.

Your objection to the tactics of the salesman have no bearing on the value of the product being offered. The benefits of physical barriers on the border are not (no longer?) being debated - the debate is now about denying or allowing Trump a win.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Can someone tell me the odds of me or any one of us in this thread being murdered by an illegal immigrant? Based on the statistics, I mean.

About the same odds as their percentage of the total population to the odds that you will be murdered by a stranger. I can assure you that your odds of being murdered by any foreign national not inside the US are very low.

 

[AlbqOwl]

We bring in approx 1 million legal immigrants every year. But there are unknown numbers of illegal immigrants that gain entry into this country every year. The exact amount is unknown. But lets start with what we KNOW.

In 2017, our US Border Patrol personnel apprehended 310,531 people seeking illegal entry into the country. Most of those are from Mexico (130,454), but there are what I find to be some rather alarming realities thrown into the mix. 35 people from Turkey were caught at our Southern border. 49 from Vietnam. 48 from Sri Lanka. 433 from Romania. 224 from Pakistan. 48 from Somalia. 45 from Kosovo. 2,943 from INDIA. 49 from Albania. 564 from Bangladesh. 642 from Nepal. 14 from Saudi Arabia. Those folk didnt WALK here from their home countries. Many of those countries have majority Muslim populations that may not necessarily be 'friendly' including Saudi Arabia.

And of course thats in addition to the 49,760 from El Salvador, 65,871 from Guatemala, 47,260 from Honduras.

Once here...how many of those are released? And those are just the numbers that are caught. How many are getting through?

When does illegal immigration become a problem people are willing to take seriously?

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/f...ionwide-apps-sector-citizenship-fy07-fy17.pdf

Most Americans are taking it seriously and I believe the honest polls show that most Americans are behind the President in taking it seriously. Yes there are some polls out showing a plurality of Americans opposing a physical barrier, but a close look at those polls show them excessively skewed towards Democrats who are more likely to be in the "I hate Trump and anything he does or proposes" group.

I am pretty sure that a substantial majority of Americans want Congress to focus on policy and what is best for the country instead of politics of personal destruction and political one upmanship.

Alas, many on message boards seem incapable of that, but we can maybe expect more of those elected to Congress?

 

[lwf]

We bring in approx 1 million legal immigrants every year. But there are unknown numbers of illegal immigrants that gain entry into this country every year. The exact amount is unknown. But lets start with what we KNOW.

In 2017, our US Border Patrol personnel apprehended 310,531 people seeking illegal entry into the country. Most of those are from Mexico (130,454), but there are what I find to be some rather alarming realities thrown into the mix. 35 people from Turkey were caught at our Southern border. 49 from Vietnam. 48 from Sri Lanka. 433 from Romania. 224 from Pakistan. 48 from Somalia. 45 from Kosovo. 2,943 from INDIA. 49 from Albania. 564 from Bangladesh. 642 from Nepal. 14 from Saudi Arabia. Those folk didnt WALK here from their home countries. Many of those countries have majority Muslim populations that may not necessarily be 'friendly' including Saudi Arabia.

And of course thats in addition to the 49,760 from El Salvador, 65,871 from Guatemala, 47,260 from Honduras.

Once here...how many of those are released? And those are just the numbers that are caught. How many are getting through?

When does illegal immigration become a problem people are willing to take seriously?

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/f...ionwide-apps-sector-citizenship-fy07-fy17.pdf

I remember reading somewhere that the border patrol estimated its apprehension success rate as a little over 80%. So the answer to the question as to how many are successfully getting through would be around 60,000.

The largest estimate I've ever seen for the possible success rate of a proposed border wall (which came from a slanted conservative study that I believe was grossly overestimated) was about 25%. So in the most generous of terms at the maximum effectiveness that even Republican authorities believe is possible, the maximum number that could be deterred by a wall would be around 15,000 per year.

 

[Taylor]

Here's what we know: the problem reached a peak back in 2000

View attachment 67247636

Looks more like 2006/7 - about the time the Secure Fence Act was passed.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Looks more like 2006/7 - about the time the Secure Fence Act was passed.

Yep, proof that physical barriers on the border don't work.

 

[Cardinal]

Your objection to the tactics of the salesman have no bearing on the value of the product being offered. The benefits of physical barriers on the border are not (no longer?) being debated - the debate is now about denying or allowing Trump a win.

The tactics of the use car salesman tells everyone that that the uses car is garbage, especially in light of the fact that the same used car salesman is proven con artist.

 

[Mr Person]

Immigrants showing up at our Southern border is at its lowest number since the early 1970's. There is no "crisis" except to those who've been subsisting on a nonstop diet of Trump's "immigrants are crossing the border to kill you" messaging for the past three years.

So all you and others can muster instead of addressing the real world facts is meaningless typical leftist talking point blather.

Worthless.

He correctly stated a "real world fact". You avoided it.

Perhaps you should try honestly discussing these "real world facts" rather than trying to put on a big show of "winning" an argument by spewing insults. It does so tire a man...





At any rate, nobody who is demanding a wall intends to address illegal immigration anyway. It's just another one of the GOP's many dog and pony shows. So you'll have to forgive people if they don't want to debate the solution to illegal immigration with people who patently care far more about the GOP's posturing and showmanship than the actual alleged problem.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

While there are certainly industries where wages are pulled down by illegal immigration, MOST people don’t notice any negative effects of it. For something to become a political priority for many people, outside of arguing on the internet, it needs to actually affect their day-to-day life. I’m not saying that is a good thing, but it is what it is.

 

[beefheart]

Isn't it funny how Trump decides to raise hell about it, now that he's lost the House?

Yep, it is easy to stir up the rubes with the "scary brown people" baloney. Problem is, it doesn't work like it used to.

The actual facts negate his phony "crisis"

 

[tres borrachos]

About the same odds as their percentage of the total population to the odds that you will be murdered by a stranger. I can assure you that your odds of being murdered by any foreign national not inside the US are very low.

You're telling me my odds of getting killed by an illegal are the same as my odds of getting killed by a citizen? What statistic is that based on?

 

[VanceMack]

I remember reading somewhere that the border patrol estimated its apprehension success rate as a little over 80%. So the answer to the question as to how many are successfully getting through would be around 60,000.

The largest estimate I've ever seen for the possible success rate of a proposed border wall (which came from a slanted conservative study that I believe was grossly overestimated) was about 25%. So in the most generous of terms at the maximum effectiveness that even Republican authorities believe is possible, the maximum number that could be deterred by a wall would be around 15,000 per year.

Can you cite that. Id love to see where the 80% apprehension rate comes from.

 

[ttwtt78640]

You're telling me my odds of getting killed by an illegal are the same as my odds of getting killed by a citizen? What statistic is that based on?

Read that more carefully. I said that the odds were based on the proportion illegal immigrants were to US citizens that did not know you.

 

[tres borrachos]

Read that more carefully. I said that the odds were based on the proportion illegal immigrants were to US citizens that did not know you.

So you can't answer my question? Okay, then you should have said so.

I hope someone can tell me the odds that I will get murdered by an illegal so I can know if it's a crisis or not.

 

[VanceMack]

Interesting that with the talk of allegedly lessened numbers of illegal immigrants, the apprehension and inadmissible numbers do NOT appear to be dropping. Annually, they remain approximately average.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So you can't answer my question? Okay, then you should have said so.

I hope someone can tell me the odds that I will get murdered by an illegal so I can know if it's a crisis or not.

The odds are slim that you will be murdered by anyone that does not know you. Somehow, I doubt that your personal odds of getting murdered are under congressional consideration.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Interesting that with the talk of allegedly lessened numbers of illegal immigrants, the apprehension and inadmissible numbers do NOT appear to be dropping. Annually, they remain approximately average.

View attachment 67247642

Yep, thousands of illegal border crossings occur every month so there is no problem with border security at all. What, me worry?

 

[VanceMack]

Yep, thousands of illegal border crossings occur every month so there is no problem with border security at all. What, me worry?

Its remarkable that when Obama says its a problem...its a really big problem. When Schumer says its a problem, its a really big problem. When Trump says its a problem...its no problem.

Frankly...I dont care about all that. To me...Obama was right. Schumer was right. Trump is right. Illegal immigration IS a problem. Gleefully declaring that since the numbers remain consist in the 300000 to 500000 a year range and that is lower than the 1.2 million high point of 2000 that somehow means that the 3000000 to 500000 a year is not a problem just doesnt make sense. And that is just the apprehensions. Who is getting through matters. Where they are coming from matters. I cannot fathom how people can see thousands of illegal immigrants coming from our southern border from India as anything BUT a problem. Same with the hundreds coming in from Pakistan, Turkey, and other middle eastern countries. Thats not a bus ride and a hike.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

When does illegal immigration become a problem people are willing to take seriously?

When Donald Trump stops using it as a big shiny distraction from the wheels of justice.