teamosil
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2009
- Messages
- 6,623
- Reaction score
- 2,226
- Location
- San Francisco
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
No. I meant what I said. "Some things are better left hidden away."
Maybe you don't find it disgusting, but I certainly do.
And now that I think about it, you said that gay sexuality was no different than straight sexuality.
How do you figure that?
Even when I was a teen, I thought PDAs--tongue-swallowing, ass-grabbing, etc.--were icky. My father always said that if you're really getting some, you don't need to put on a show, and I still think that today.
I don't care if you find gay people disgusting. I don't care if you find black people or Jewish people or Muslims, or any other demographic group, disgusting. The reality is that we're all on this earth together as equals and we need to behave in a respectful way to one another.
Civil rights always win out in the end. You know that of course. We won the vote for non-land-owners, black people are able to eat in any restaurant they want, Native Americans can vote, women can hold jobs, interracial couples can get married... We win every single time. And we're clearly going to win this one. So all this really is is a question of how long it is going to take you to catch up with the rest of society. Are you going to be one of those old folks who sit around ranting about the "coloreds", but with the "gays"? Or are you going to take responsibility for continuing your moral development even as you get old?
What I can't figure out is why you lump all those groups with gays. All those advances you mentioned are certainly admirable, and we shouldn't discriminate. Against anybody, no matter who and what they are, or do, and if you're going to engage in disgusting behavior (flaunting your sexuality), then it has to (or should) be kept private and out of the public view.
But lumping gays with Blacks, Native Americans, Women and every other minority (of which I am a member) is an insult. We are not disgusting, thank you very much!
It is over. The progressive politicians who made empty threats to block CFA restaurants in their cities backed down the moment people from their own side chastised them for it. The big Appreciation day set up by Huckabee brought large crowds to CFA restaurants across the country. The counter protesting kiss-ins attracted some press but little notice.
Chick-Fil-A got a few big days of sales, likely lost a relative handful of customers, and a year from now it'll mostly be forogtten by the vast majority of people. Essentially, a big nothing.
I think it has two effects. Obviously over time we're moving towards being more tolerant of homosexuality. Each year, even in the reddest states, support for marriage equality is steadily rising. In 20 years people will look at bigotry against gay people the same way they look at bigotry against any demographic group. So, at some point Chick-Fil-A is either going to need to make a big ole apology and promise to change its ways, or it's image will start to become a pretty big liability everywhere.
The other effect is that it has tentatively stretched some tendrils out outside of the south over the past few years. Those locations are going to go out of business and it will retract back to being just a southern company.
And this has what to do with this specific situation...? You're suggesting that due to things that may happen over the next 20 years Chick-Fil-A may need to change it's ways...well, yeah, probably. That means jack squat though in terms of the happenings of the past few weeks.
What you just said isn't an effect of what Chick-Fil-A's stance or peoples protests against it or the protests against the protests, and on and on...what you said is a generalized 20 year look at culture changing.
I completely disagree with you here. While it may slow the expansion a bit, there's been nothing to indicate to me that any significant business is going to be affected on their end. Ultimately, contrary to the insolated thought processes of people hyped on politics, the American People are not massively politically principled animals. A year from now I'd honestly guess that save for those specifically part of the LGBT movement, not simply supporteres of it, and some people heavily plugged in politically, most people won't even have it on their consiousness when thinking about Chick-Fil-A and possible openings of stores. At worst, they may have a hard time opening up in a few new northern locations over the next year or so...but beyond that I'd be surprised as I've seen no indication what so ever that it's having or will have substantial business impact.
Not sure I'm following your argument on this one. What I am saying is that Chick-Fil-A has announced a stance that won't wear well with time. It will become a progressively bigger problem for them as society's attitudes continue to evolve on this issue.
That may be true that a year from now most people will have forgotten. But I don't see those stores lasting a year.
I mean, from a Democrat's perspective, what he said was no different than saying that he thinks black people are inferior to white people or any other such thing.
My facebook is flooded with posts from people about it
It is over. The progressive politicians who made empty threats to block CFA restaurants in their cities backed down the moment people from their own side chastised them for it. The big Appreciation day set up by Huckabee brought large crowds to CFA restaurants across the country. The counter protesting kiss-ins attracted some press but little notice.
But what has been accomplished?
As a gay individual I have to say I am hurt.
Sure, Chick-Fil-A's stance won't likely wear well 10 or 20 years down the road...but that has little to do with what's occured over the past few weeks.
I disagree to an extent in the short term, and more in terms of long term affect. Will some stores perhaps go under? Maybe. I actually still HIGHLY doubt that. At worst I'd say you're more likely to see some that may be on college campuses pushed off, because it's less of a capitalistic reason for it, than you will stand alone stores. You may see a handful in more liberally populated areas in the north suffer. But by and large I don't think you're going to see them become a "southern" only resturant again, you won't see their expansion stopped let alone significantly slowed, and I still think many of their stores farther to the north will be fine.
Anecdotally, while Virginia is "southern", the area I live in is extremely transient and is solidly liberal. Every chick-fil-a in the area hasn't seemed to be any different in terms of the lines and amount of people in the lots now then it was a month ago to my eye. I just don't see anything telling me that outside of a handful of stores that may be the exception that this is going to have significant impact on stores, expansion, etc.
I would be shocked if the vast majority of those that are posting on facebook in "protest" who previously regularly ate chick-fil-a don't stop in as they pass one and grab themselves a #1. Because passing facebook fads are just that...fads. It's not about politics, it's about pop culture.
What you may not be taking into account is that it doesn't take like an 80% drop in sales to drive a business out of business. More like 20% and it goes out of business. If being branded Chick-Fil-A costs them even 10% of their business, odds are that whoever owns that Chick-Fil-A franchise would be better off switching over to KFC or whatever and getting that 10% back.
You realize this is a franchise where people already go into it knowing they're going to have their profits reduced due to being unable to open one day a week due largely to the companies religious beliefs. I think you're over estimating peoples activism, and it's affect, to be quite honest.
It's not that it's not a big deal to me. It's because I've watched people I know who aren't political active most of the time get on board with whatever recent fad or trendy facebook thing is out there and then never give any indication of it again months later routinely.
Tell me...iS KONY2000 still important to anywhere near the amount of people as it was months back when it blew up all over the net and Facebook?
Luis Farrakhan has two, and one of them is in Chicago. Whats your point?Lets look at a comparable situation- Cracker Barrel. Cracker Barrel went down a similar road. They openly announced that they didn't hire gay people and didn't approve of homosexuality back in the 90s. In 1998 there was a huge flurry of hype about it, protests, boycotts, news stories, etc. Over the course of the next five years, their stock fell from $40 to $10 and they had to shut down tons of locations- mostly those outside the south. Then, in 2002, they fired the CEO, issued a massive apology, donated a bunch of money to gay rights causes, and made a huge show of ceasing all discrimination against gay people and hiring gay people for high profile positions, and their stock came back up to $40 by 2005.
If Joseph Kony ran a chain of restaurants in the US, do you think they would still be in business?
Luis Farrakhan has two, and one of them is in Chicago. Whats your point?
Did I miss where ChickFilA refused to hire or serve gay people?
Woah woah waoh. ChickFilA didnt generate any 'outrage'...a bunch of mayors used an interview with a Christian owner in a Christian magazine (which said nothing more than he believed openly denying the word of God was to tempt his wrath) to gin up a bunch of fauxrage...and it blew up in their face. We arent talking about this issue. (still) because of ANYTHING the restaurant chain did. We are talking about this because a bunch of liberals tried to score points. At least, they boosted ChikFilAs business significantly. Before this is over at least a few mayors and alderman and one NYC Chancellor may have put their city residents into a HUGE fiscal liability situation.I'm not clear on what you're arguing here... Can you explain? Did you have a response to my position?
No. At least they don't say that they discriminate against gay people openly if they do.
But in 1998 refusing to hire gay people was a similar type of severity as saying the things he said and funding hate groups is today I think. If anything, Chick-Fil-A has generated more outrage than Cracker Barrel did.
Woah woah waoh. ChickFilA didnt generate any 'outrage'...a bunch of mayors used an interview with a Christian owner in a Christian magazine (which said nothing more than he believed openly denying the word of God was to tempt his wrath) to gin up a bunch of fauxrage...and it blew up in their face. We arent talking about this issue. (still) because of ANYTHING the restaurant chain did. We are talking about this because a bunch of liberals tried to score points. At least, they boosted ChikFilAs business significantly. Before this is over at least a few mayors and alderman and one NYC Chancellor may have put their city residents into a HUGE fiscal liability situation.
I see easily 30 straight couples kiss or holding hands or whatever in public for every gay couple I see kiss or hold hands or whatever. And I live in freaking San Francisco.
Your notion that gay people are doing something different than straight people is false. All it is is that you are straight so it stands out more in your mind when you see gay people doing the same thing. You need to deal with that.
I don't really even know how to answer that. You're just flat out declaring that you think gay people are inferior. Why are they lessor people? Does God hate them or something?
The restaurant chain did NOTHING. The CEO was asked a question and answered it in a rather harmless manner I might add. And no...I dont think Cathy did a THING wrong. I DO believe you, others like you, and especially the mayors CREATED that situation for purely political reasons and I think that whole situation just reared back and kicked yourself right in the groin. But please...PLEASE...before you continue with your pathetic mock outrage, reconcile Rahm Emmanuel in the same week he said ChickFilA isnt in line with "Chicago Values" then embraced Louis Farrakhan...the guy that compared gay people to swine. No...just...really...have the common sense to stop embarrassing yourself and let this go. You and others made a tactical error. Let the smoke clear and pick some other non issue to make a political stand on.Are you serious? You don't think Chick-Fil-A has generated any outrage? That is the most bizarre claim I've ever heard somebody make... You're just denying that this whole thing happened at all? I don't even know what to say to that lol..
Really? I don't. 30 to 1, huh? I think you're exaggerating.
But remember. I'm not talking about the kissing and holding hands. I'm talking about the "whatever". You have to realize what I'm talking about so that there is no more misunderstanding. Since being gay is mostly about sex (at least among the men) they are more promiscuous than straights, and are almost always on the prowl for their next sex partner. If they think you're interested, they give you that look and they flaunt themselves openly.
If I have my family with me, including kids, it is MY RIGHT not to see that, and to protect the kids from being exposed to that kind of behavior. And if confronted with a distasteful scene like that, I have to move along to get as far from it as possible.
You're not looking at it with open eyes. And I DON'T need to deal with that. That's my point. There's such a thing as decency, and you seem to think the gays are exempt from it. Why? You're giving them extra latitude with respect to the way they can behave in public. Why?
You know, at first you insult minorities by lumping us with gays. Now you're trying to lump me in with bigots. I think it's time you stop.
They are not inferior, or lesser in any way, and God doesn't hate them. I don't hate them. I'm not saying they can't have gay sex if they really want to. What I'm trying to get into your head is that they need to keep it among themselves. In private. That's all! Why is that a problem for you?
I don't know what you see out there, but I'll tell you what you don't see. You don't see straights flaunting their sexuality (which is basically advertising) to the extent that gays do, do you?
Tolerance is good. We really do need to be more tolerant, but you need to understand that not everything has to be tolerated. There are limits.
The restaurant chain did NOTHING. The CEO was asked a question and answered it in a rather harmless manner I might add. And no...I dont think Cathy did a THING wrong. I DO believe you, others like you, and especially the mayors CREATED that situation for purely political reasons and I think that whole situation just reared back and kicked yourself right in the groin. But please...PLEASE...before you continue with your pathetic mock outrage, reconcile Rahm Emmanuel in the same week he said ChickFilA isnt in line with "Chicago Values" then embraced Louis Farrakhan...the guy that compared gay people to swine. No...just...really...have the common sense to stop embarrassing yourself and let this go. You and others made a tactical error. Let the smoke clear and pick some other non issue to make a political stand on.
Good lord, get over yourself. He didnt attack gay people. Thats so incredibly pathetic that you believe that to be the case. But really...since you are SOOO outraged...where was that backlash against Farrakhans restaurant, the mayor embracing him, or hey, how about the black ministers that came out in opposition to the presidents position on gay marriage? For that matter, where was that outrage directed at the 70% of the blacks and hispanics that voted against prop 8 right there in your home state? Please...thats just sad. You are making yourself look worse. Im on your side here, really. I want to help. Just...stop. Apply an ice bag. The pain will go away soon and you can gin up some new fresh outrage.Mock outrage? See, this is the root issue. You assume that because it isn't a big deal to you to attack gay people, that nobody really cares about it. They must just be pretending. But that isn't reality. In reality, what he said and funding hate groups is an extremely serious thing. He is a hatemonger who is funneling money to groups that fuel violence and discrimination against gay people. You may not care about that, but many people do. It is no different than somebody going around saying that black people are inferior and funneling money to white supremacist groups.
Good lord, get over yourself. He didnt attack gay people. Thats so incredibly pathetic that you believe that to be the case.
He said "I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say ‘we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage’ and I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about"
Do you honestly not understand how that is an attack on gay people? That is impossible that you honestly can't grasp that...
Thats right...he did. He said what a good many Christians and for that matter religious people everywhere think. He didnt call you a pig. He didnt refer to you as swine. And dont think I dont notice how you COMPLETELY avoid that aspect-no no...you confine your pathetic attacks to Christians..and heck...not even Christians in general...but only white Christians. You didnt call out Rahmbo for embracing the Nation. Which again...is why your mock outrage is such a joke. You said nothing throughout the 3.5 years Obama stated he believed it is wrong and shouldnt be allowed and only found your voice after his conversion...a conversion brought about solely because he wants your money and votes. You ignore the black ministers that united and spoke out against Obamas stand on gay marriage. You ignore the vast majority of blacks and Hispanics that voted against prop 8. Like I said...you make yourself look silly. This pretend outrage is just pathetic. For your own sake...hell...for your CAUSES sake...you really should stop.He said "I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say ‘we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage’ and I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about"
Do you honestly not understand how that is an attack on gay people? That is impossible that you honestly can't grasp that...
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?