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What should I do?

repeter

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Okay, about this time last year, I started to get to know this girl better. Now, she and I are great friends, and we talk practically every day, and its not just a shallow relationship, its a friendship which will last our entire lives. The problem is I absolutely love her. She loves me as well, but like a brother I guess, not someone she would date. And on top of this, she knows I like her.

This girl just graduated, but she is going to a community college. She is in a relationship that ends June 24th, when her boyfriend moves to LA for college. Despite her graduating, I will see her plenty of times next year.

Right now, I just got back for another summer course at Harvard. I talked with her for about an hour today, but she told me she wants me to talk to her less because she wants me to do good in my classes here at Harvard.

I really don't know what to do, but I know when I get back home, she and I have a movie marathon planned. She calls it a hot guy marathon, I call it an action movie marathon. Either way, I'm going to be spending a few hours at her house, watching movies.

My parents both think shes great, so I don't have to worry about them fussing over me going out with her, and her parents love me, so she won't have that problem either. On top of that, her younger sister and I are moderately good friends, and I'm really good friends with both of her brothers, one of whom is 19 and the other is 16.

More then once, she has told me she wants to impress me, and I don't know whether to believe this, but one of her other friends said she considered dating me earlier in the year, before she was with her current boyfriend.

I really don't know what to do about this...I care for her, but she doesn't care about me in the same way. I'd really appreciate any help, this is eating my alive from the inside out :(
 

Areopagitican

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When in doubt, whip your dick out.

I didn't do that several times, and learned the hard way. I asked my current flame, whose very straitlaced, "if I brought out my penis on Day X, would you have gone out with me then?"

She replied by jumping on top of me.

It works, trust me.
 

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Place yourself in her shoes. She has a BF and she knows you 'like' her. If the feelings were mutual, would you have been able to spend a few hours watching movies instead of doing something else...

I think not.

Now there are two possibilities, either she likes you as a friend and it troubles her to turn you down or she's a serpent that's addicted to the attention of someone who's nice to her.

You need to make new friends at Harvard and have some casual intercourse before this turns into an obsession.
 

Goshin

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It's hard to say based on just the information available, but offhand I think she has pigeonholed you to "BFF" status and has a strong reluctance to change that.

BTDT. There was this chick I was really into, and I was playing BFF and hoping it would go further than that. For six months I was "there for her" pretty much any and every time she called.

Finally one day I broached the subject, and revealed that my feelings for her went beyond friendship. She looked surprised, dismayed, and in a very awkward moment explained that while I was her "very very good friend" that that was as far as it was ever going to go.

It is often hard to move from the "friend zone" to the "lover zone". As a generalization, most women seem to file men into either Category A "potential lover" or Category B "male friend", and once you're in Category B there you are likely to STAY.

I'd suggest you ask her flat out if you have any chance of moving to Category A, then listen carefully to her response. If the answer is some version of "No", (however politely phrased), you should believe her and quit wasting your time and emotional investment. If her answer is something like "probably not" or "I don't know", that almost certainly means "Hell no but I'm too polite to say so flat out and I don't want to lose you as a friend so I'd rather string you along."

In fact if you get anything other than a pretty definite positive response, you should forget about being anything other than her friend... and you'll have to decide for yourself if that's something you can and want to be while putting your desires for more aside.

My only other advice is don't put this confrontation off for long. You can end up spending months or years chasing a hopeless dream of moving from BFF to Lover when usually it ain't going to happen.
 

Goshin

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When in doubt, whip your dick out.

I didn't do that several times, and learned the hard way. I asked my current flame, whose very straitlaced, "if I brought out my penis on Day X, would you have gone out with me then?"

She replied by jumping on top of me.

It works, trust me.


Assuming you meant that literally, I'm trying to think of some way you could be more crude, or more wrong.

You whip our your dick when you are reasonably certain that the appearance of the aforementioned body part will be well-recieved... not as a means of questioning whether a friend-woman is intrested in becoming a lover. Dick's function is not to ask questions, he isn't equipped for that.

I mean, wouldn't you have felt stupid if you'd whipped out your dick, and she sat there staring at you in dismay and asked "What the hell did you do that for? What's wrong with you, where you raised in a whorehouse?"
 

Areopagitican

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Assuming you meant that literally, I'm trying to think of some way you could be more crude, or more wrong.

You whip our your dick when you are reasonably certain that the appearance of the aforementioned body part will be well-recieved... not as a means of questioning whether a friend-woman is intrested in becoming a lover. Dick's function is not to ask questions, he isn't equipped for that.

I mean, wouldn't you have felt stupid if you'd whipped out your dick, and she sat there staring at you in dismay and asked "What the hell did you do that for? What's wrong with you, where you raised in a whorehouse?"
Woh, hold on there. Take a joke.

Do you really think that anyone would ever "when in doubt, whip it out?"
 

Arch Enemy

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You should have outted as soon as she called the movie marathon a "hot guy marathon". She's treating you like a girlfriend. When guys are on date-night movie sprees with a potential girlfriend the hours spent watching the movies should be intended literally watching the movie. It should be a time for you to test the proverbial waters (and not necessarily with your dick as Areo seems to suggest). The more the movie watching is hyped the less she is willing to think that any move you make, or intend to make (she can read your thoughts before you have them, I promise) is smooth-- and if it ain't smooth she will reject.
 

Chuz Life

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Okay, about this time last year, I started to get to know this girl better. Now, she and I are great friends, and we talk practically every day, and its not just a shallow relationship, its a friendship which will last our entire lives. The problem is I absolutely love her. She loves me as well, but like a brother I guess, not someone she would date. And on top of this, she knows I like her.

<snip>

I really don't know what to do about this...I care for her, but she doesn't care about me in the same way. I'd really appreciate any help, this is eating my alive from the inside out :(
I've lived more than 30 years in your shoes.

It doesn't end well. (at least it didn't im my case)

Only, I joined the Marine Corps to impress mine as she went off to college. My family couldn't afford college. I wrote letters, promised only to be a friend,... but she always knew better. I would let it slip and she would have to remind me.

If we weren't writing letters, I would try to find her in internet searches. Even when I was married,... but especially when I was divorced.

Then came the day, I found her obituary.

Like I said,...

It didn't end well,... and I have yet to have any peace about it.

Only questions.
 

Arch Enemy

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I've lived more than 30 years in your shoes.

It doesn't end well. (at least it didn't im my case)

Only, I joined the Marine Corps to impress mine as she went off to college. My family couldn't afford college. I wrote letters, promised only to be a friend,... but she always knew better. I would let it slip and she would have to remind me.

If we weren't writing letters, I would try to find her in internet searches. Even when I was married,... but especially when I was divorced.

Then came the day, I found her obituary.

Like I said,...

It didn't end well,... and I have yet to have any peace about it.

Only questions.
ohhhh **** son
 

Goshin

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Woh, hold on there. Take a joke.

Do you really think that anyone would ever "when in doubt, whip it out?"

Ya never know. I've run into some strange people on the Interwebs.

Try using a smilie or two next time, it helps get the point across that you're joking.
 

Areopagitican

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Ya never know. I've run into some strange people on the Interwebs.

Try using a smilie or two next time, it helps get the point across that you're joking.
Haha, oh I will. I assumed that no one would believe that there was a person in the world who based his relationships on a sexually charged Dr. Seuss rhyme, but I see your point. :)
 

justabubba

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date her girl friends. if she is interested she will then let you know ... especially if you have impressed them
it's a strange phenomenon, but many women will not find you desirable until they see you are with another woman
 

Goshin

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date her girl friends. if she is interested she will then let you know ... especially if you have impressed them
it's a strange phenomenon, but many women will not find you desirable until they see you are with another woman

Ya know, there's a certain amount of truth to that.


She could also be "playing monkey bars". Remember the playground equipment of the same name? You swing from bar to bar, but you don't let go of the bar you've got until you've got a grip on the next one. A lot of people are like that in relationships: they want their NEXT BF/GF lined up before they let go of the previoius one.

Or she could be keeping him for a "spare" in case she doesn't get whoever she's got her sights on.

I still think it is more likely that he is stuck in the "friend zone", which is sort of like Limbo: you almost never get out.
 

repeter

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So the general consensus seems to be I need to simply ask her if she will ever consider me more as a potential boyfriend...and if she responds negatively, I need to move on?

She is getting out of her relationship in a few days, so depending on how our conversations go for sometime afterwards, should I looks for hints whether she might want to enter one with me maybe?

And during the movie marathon, I should see if she wants to move into the romantic area?

My biggest problem with relationships, is that I can't enter one unless I feel unconditionally attracted to the girl. So far, that has only happened in this one instance, and I'm really not sure how to handle it. I remember asking one of my teachers for advice, and he told me a story of how he spent nearly every day with a girl he loved for 6 months, only to have her never consider him as more then a friend.

Looking at the extreme likelihood that she will never want to enter a romantic relationship with me, how do I start to move away from her?
 

Goshin

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So the general consensus seems to be I need to simply ask her if she will ever consider me more as a potential boyfriend...and if she responds negatively, I need to move on?

She is getting out of her relationship in a few days, so depending on how our conversations go for sometime afterwards, should I looks for hints whether she might want to enter one with me maybe?

And during the movie marathon, I should see if she wants to move into the romantic area?

My biggest problem with relationships, is that I can't enter one unless I feel unconditionally attracted to the girl. So far, that has only happened in this one instance, and I'm really not sure how to handle it. I remember asking one of my teachers for advice, and he told me a story of how he spent nearly every day with a girl he loved for 6 months, only to have her never consider him as more then a friend.

Looking at the extreme likelihood that she will never want to enter a romantic relationship with me, how do I start to move away from her?
Yes, you should openly talk to her about this within the week. Assume anything other than an unequivocal "yes" actually means "never".

Okay... if you're really really in love with this girl, and you have to end your feelings for her so you can move on, I think the only way to do this is a clean and total break. Don't see her, don't call her, don't hang out. If she calls you, you can chit-chat for a bit, but if your heart goes pitter-patter even once, tell her you have to go and do something else. If you fiddle around and "sorta kinda break off with her", that's also how your feelings for her will be: "sorta kinda not really getting over her cuz you're still in her orbit."

Male-female friendships only work if each views the other purely as a friend. When one is in the friend-zone and the other is in love, it is an unequal friendship and it can't work. A clean break is necessary for the good of the one whose feelings are engaged.
 

repeter

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Yes, you should openly talk to her about this within the week. Assume anything other than an unequivocal "yes" actually means "never".

Okay... if you're really really in love with this girl, and you have to end your feelings for her so you can move on, I think the only way to do this is a clean and total break. Don't see her, don't call her, don't hang out. If she calls you, you can chit-chat for a bit, but if your heart goes pitter-patter even once, tell her you have to go and do something else. If you fiddle around and "sorta kinda break off with her", that's also how your feelings for her will be: "sorta kinda not really getting over her cuz you're still in her orbit."

Male-female friendships only work if each views the other purely as a friend. When one is in the friend-zone and the other is in love, it is an unequal friendship and it can't work. A clean break is necessary for the good of the one whose feelings are engaged.
There is the problem for me. I can, at least for some time, maintain a friendship with her, and enjoy it, if she doesn't want to be romantically involved. And more then that...I want to continue to know her, and talk to her, at least to some extent.

Perhaps I should talk to her about this after she breaks up with her boyfriend, and then see how things go at the movie thing?
 

Chuz Life

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There is the problem for me. I can, at least for some time, maintain a friendship with her, and enjoy it, if she doesn't want to be romantically involved. And more then that...I want to continue to know her, and talk to her, at least to some extent.

Perhaps I should talk to her about this after she breaks up with her boyfriend, and then see how things go at the movie thing?
I am a firm believer in abiding by the truth and letting the cards fall where they may fall.

Have you considered sending the girl an invite to join the forum or at least let her read this thread?

If you're not willing or wanting to do that,... I would just say to her (what I should have said to mine) that you love her too much to be her friend, that you are willing to wait for as long as it takes to try again,... and that you would like to be the first person she would think to call if she ever needs anything.

Here's to the thought that the two of you will someday be living happily together.


:cheers:
 

Thorgasm

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It's hard to say what to do without knowing the girl.

I was in a similar situation when I was younger. I was there for her. She knew that. I became her emotional tampon. After enough time around her I realized that while she was sexy and fun, she was never satisfied. I knew I wasn't compatible with her issues. The funny thing was, when I told her that, she was speechless. She no longer could get a Pavlovian response from me.

If you are in the "friend zone", there is no talking your way out of it. As a young man who is so emotionally invested, you will most likely say that wrong thing, put too much pressure on the situation, or come off as pathetic and needy which is totally unattractive.

Either you wait for her to realize after dating multiple jerks and probably having a couple kids that you are what she needs, in her 30's, or you make your move during movie marathon. Give her a nice relaxing back massage and see if her body language is receptive to you being inside her personal space. If it is, try kissing her. You will either have success, or you will know for sure that you are forever (or the 20 years to realize friends make great lovers) friend zone.
 

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Okay, I need to force the issue a tiny bit, not too much, but not too little.

I know where that is going to go though, she will almost certainly reject me, and it's downhill for me from there. If I put her in a corner by saying I can't talk to her because i care about her too much, I'll feel like a total a**. And then I'll certainly be implying I don't want to be her friend anymore either. Hell, there are a lot of pathways to force her into a corner where she might date me out of pure sympathy, but thats a crappy deal, and everything else aside, i want her to be happy.

The best option, therefore, is to talk with her very occasionally during my time at Harvard, and when i come back, and go to the movie marathon, I push the issue out in the open.
 

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I know where that is going to go though, she will almost certainly reject me, and it's downhill for me from there. If I put her in a corner by saying I can't talk to her because i care about her too much, I'll feel like a total a**.
Don't say it, then. Just do it.
Just gradually and politely disengage yourself from the friendship, until you're not talking to each other anymore.
Unless, of course, you don't mind being friends with someone you find sexually attractive who has absolutely no romantic feelings toward you at all.
If that's the case, continue the friendship, but repress your attraction- hide it completely- so that it doesn't make things awkward and uncomfortable, because you already know that it is not reciprocated, and will not be.
 

repeter

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Don't say it, then. Just do it.
Just gradually and politely disengage yourself from the friendship, until you're not talking to each other anymore.
Unless, of course, you don't mind being friends with someone you find sexually attractive who has absolutely no romantic feelings toward you at all.
If that's the case, continue the friendship, but repress your attraction- hide it completely- so that it doesn't make things awkward and uncomfortable, because you already know that it is not reciprocated, and will not be.
I can't do that really. She has, on many occassions, told me she values our relationshpi a lot, and it is really meaningful, and that it isn't all s**t and giggles like it is with her other friends. For that reason alone, I really can't leave her as a friend. Maybe that'd be a good way of getting her interested in me, by not talking to her for a long time, and I know she would try reaching out to me.

And I don't think I have to completely shut down any attraction for her. When we talk, and I say something nice, she'll ask whether I'd say that to someone else, and I'll say that she is special to me, a tender moment so to speak, and we have about one of those per conversation or so.
 

Goshin

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I can't do that really. She has, on many occassions, told me she values our relationshpi a lot, and it is really meaningful, and that it isn't all s**t and giggles like it is with her other friends. For that reason alone, I really can't leave her as a friend. Maybe that'd be a good way of getting her interested in me, by not talking to her for a long time, and I know she would try reaching out to me.

And I don't think I have to completely shut down any attraction for her. When we talk, and I say something nice, she'll ask whether I'd say that to someone else, and I'll say that she is special to me, a tender moment so to speak, and we have about one of those per conversation or so.

You know what sucks about being an older experienced dude? Besides the getting old part... it is the fact that you can often look at a situation someone is in, see the train wreck that is headed their way, tell them the train wreck is about to fly up their ass, and then watch while they say "Yeah, but I can handle it, don't worry its okay" and proceed to take an 80-car freightliner up the rectum, needlessly.

You need to stick with what Indy Thinker just said: Backrub, if that works try to kiss her. If at any point she rejects your advances, this means you are in the "friend zone" for 20-to-Life, probably Life. In that latter case, you need to break off entirely and find someone who appreciates you.

A man of considerable experience once told me that he'd rather be with a woman that was madly in love with him, than a woman he was madly in love with. Think about that for a minute or ten.
 

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Bubba kind of hit on the right course. Just start dating all her friends. Treat them so wonderfully that they have no choice but to boast you up as a tribute to the female gender back to her.

Women don't listen to you. Women listen to other women. This is the same reasoning behind why I used to hang out with an ex-girlfriend of mine after we broke up. If girls would ask if we're together, she'd say no and that I was an ex, but talk me up like I was the living embodiment of Jesus. Apparently you have no credibility until someone with a vagina testifies on your behalf.

One of the greatest unknown truths is that women make the BEST wingmen, by far. It's not even fair.
 

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If what you said is true, she just told you.

She wants you to talk to her less...

It's a clue. Believe me. I raised 5 girls. I have heard them one time or another say the same thing. Then, get off the phone and do nothing but say everything but explitives about the guy.
 

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There is the problem for me. I can, at least for some time, maintain a friendship with her, and enjoy it, if she doesn't want to be romantically involved. And more then that...I want to continue to know her, and talk to her, at least to some extent.
Don't do it. You might think you can enjoy friendship with her, but you're only fooling yourself. My freshman year of college, I fell in love with this girl who I was friends with. I didn't have the balls to say anything to her about it for almost a year, and then I got the "I think you're a great friend" speech from her. I decided that being her friend was better than nothing...and I fell into a deep depression because I knew I couldn't be with her. It only got worse after she started dating one of my friends. Right up until the two of them were at the altar exchanging vows, I always harbored a belief in the back of my mind that if I was friends with her for long enough, she'd eventually love me.

Just don't do it. It isn't worth it. Stay away from her, even if it means you have to be a jerk to her. She'll get over it.
 
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