Well the false flag has begun

[independentusa]

The false flag has begun and next comes the invasion. Watch the news for more details.

 

[Jredbaron96]

I have no idea what specifics context the OP is referring to, but for those of you who are interested, Putin has just ordered troops to the separatist regions to act as "peacekeepers".

Luhansk and Donetsk regions recognised as independent states by Russia – as it happened

Russian president has recognised Ukraine’s Luhansk and Donetsk regions as independent states: Zelenskiy says ‘we are not afraid’. Follow the latest updates

www.theguardian.com

 

[EdwinWillers]

It's war.

 

[MaryP]

I have no idea what specifics context the OP is referring to, but for those of you who are interested, Putin has just ordered troops to the separatist regions to act as "peacekeepers".

Luhansk and Donetsk regions recognised as independent states by Russia – as it happened

Russian president has recognised Ukraine’s Luhansk and Donetsk regions as independent states: Zelenskiy says ‘we are not afraid’. Follow the latest updates

www.theguardian.com

You beat me to it!

 

[Linc]

It's war.

supported by the GOPutins

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I have no idea what specifics context the OP is referring to, but for those of you who are interested, Putin has just ordered troops to the separatist regions to act as "peacekeepers".

Luhansk and Donetsk regions recognised as independent states by Russia – as it happened

Russian president has recognised Ukraine’s Luhansk and Donetsk regions as independent states: Zelenskiy says ‘we are not afraid’. Follow the latest updates

www.theguardian.com

Putin officially declares Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics as separate states.
I guess the next step, if Trumpers take the White House and Congress, will be to have Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama and Florida declared
independent states by President DeSantis. And Speaker of the House Trump will marshall a majority only vote in the House and "Leader" McConnell will do the same in the Senate.

 

[Cardinal]

It's war.

I knew it was war weeks ago. The drums of war have a very specific and unmistakable sound.

 

[RetiredUSN]

supported by the GOPutins

I think it's time for you to enlist and show some genuine resolve against all those GoPutins.

The Army needs a few good men.

 

[Craig234]

It began a week ago IIRC, when Putin filed a 'concern' at the United Nations about shelling in East Ukraine. I've been saying for the whole situation I thought Putin is likely to invade, with that only increasing to nearly 100%. I listed some indicators as they happened, such as his evacuating his super-yacht from NATO and rescheduling nuclear missile tests, and there are many more.

Our trigger should be as soon as the 'peacekeepers' cross the border without permission, the war starts, and our complete sanctions start.

While Putin is very wrong here, and war is not the time for a good discussion of this, as I understand Ukraine is split in two between the pro-Russia side and the pro-west side, and there's long been an issue what to do about that.

I wonder if having the pro-Russian side move to Russia might not have some benefits, stabilizing Ukraine into a more unified state, and it's better than Putin entering the pro-west side of the country and overthrowing the government, though getting there by Putin's use of force is not the way to do it.

People might want to make analogies to Hitler's taking of the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia, and the history of the false peace by agreeing to it, but as I understand that regions actually did prefer to be part of Germany, and there's no reason but Hitler's choices and agenda why that might not have been a reasonable plan. Not every concession need be treated as exactly the same 'appeasement'.

Unfortunately, such changes should be discussed in a context of peace and justice and not under conditions of war, and even doing the right thing can be ill-advised when it rewards wrong.

These situations, unfortunately tend to be dominated by power over justice, selfishness over justice, and people like to simplify them to the point of black and white. So that people have difficulty recognizing 'here's where they're wrong' (long list for Russia), and 'here's where we might be wrong', not a short list either.

Face-saving pursuit of justice is a lot easier when the use of force hasn't changed the issue to the need to punish aggression, and having concessions look 'weak'. Wars can be fought over 'appearances' sometimes. Putin's warmaking and treachery has stabbed peace in the heart - but I think we should not forget that peaceful avenues might not have been opened by us at times, as well.

Remember how well we defended 'every country's right to choose its own alliances' when Cuba chose to ally with the USSR. Putin would have to launch dozens of assassination attempts and years of covert terrorism in Ukraine as WELL as an invasion just to match us. Two wrongs don't make a right and we need to oppose his aggression, but that might not be the whole story, also.

 

[CaughtInThe]

When the pictures of the women and children who are slaughtered start rolling in I'm gonna go back to that thread I started about if we should be involved and see how many people change their tune.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Smart people have been saying this for weeks. Anyone who told you this was all for show is a Putin loving asshole, and you need to understand they lied to you intentionally.

 

[Peacenik]

Anyone surprised?

 

[Metric Mouse]

Putin officially declares Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics as separate states.
I guess the next step, if Trumpers take the White House and Congress, will be to have Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama and Florida declared
independent states by President DeSantis. And Speaker of the House Trump will marshall a majority only vote in the House and "Leader" McConnell will do the same in the Senate.

Nice. You managed to downplay the horror about to befall the people of Ukraine, discount Russian agression and destabilization AND smack poor, racially diverse states in one post...

Classy.

 

[ElChupacabra]

I have no idea what specifics context the OP is referring to, but for those of you who are interested, Putin has just ordered troops to the separatist regions to act as "peacekeepers".

Luhansk and Donetsk regions recognised as independent states by Russia – as it happened

Russian president has recognised Ukraine’s Luhansk and Donetsk regions as independent states: Zelenskiy says ‘we are not afraid’. Follow the latest updates

www.theguardian.com

I suspect the context is Russia recognizing the separatist regions is what the poster is referring to; it's a good way to justify sending in troops. The other concerning part is the blame placed at Ukraine for incursions into Russia; which if accurate, could very well be the false flag scenario the US has warned about.

 

[Warcok]

I'm binge-watching Yellowstone right now. I'll put the news on at 8

 

[Craig234]

When the pictures of the women and children who are slaughtered start rolling in I'm gonna go back to that thread I started about if we should be involved and see how many people change their tune.

And men. Killing men isn't ok either.

 

[CaughtInThe]

And men. Killing men isn't ok either.

None of it is. But when the pictures starts rolling in I wanna see who changes their minds.

 

[Linc]

I think it's time for you to enlist and show some genuine resolve against all those GoPutins.

The Army needs a few good men.

I’m 68, younger than you. My Dad gave 30 years; he voted against Ford due to his retirement getting taxed. That kept my British Mom from going overseas when her parents died since she wasn’t a citizen until the late 80’s.

Dad went from LBJ to Nixon. He loved the phony Reagan and the felon Ollie. He did love watching Tiger, which I believe helped Obama.

Republicans have voiced VERY LITTLE to ZERO objection to what their ally Putin is doing right now. SAD day indeed for Reaganites too afraid to speak up.

 

[Craig234]

Anyone surprised?

I know at least one poster who made a thread that they thought an invasion was unlikely. Of course with hindsight, we might find many who forget that, though I think the poster I have in mind is honest and will admit that. Unfortunately, I don't doubt many Republican propagandists are looking right now how to turn it into attacks on Biden.

 

[Razoo]

where are the economic sanctions from all concerned governments

we'll see to what extent this proceeds.......

I assume Craig234 you mean me ........

11 Hours ago.......
US President Joe Biden has agreed "in principle" to hold a summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin to discuss the crisis over Ukraine.

The talks proposed by France will only take place if Russia does not invade its neighbour, the White House said.
The Kremlin, meanwhile, said there were no "concrete plans" for a summit.

It is hoped that such talks could offer a possible diplomatic solution to one of the worst security crises in Europe in decades.

US officials say intelligence suggests Russia is ready to launch a military operation, which Moscow denies.

The proposed summit was announced by the French presidency after two phone calls between President Emmanuel Macron and Mr Putin, which went on for almost three hours in total.

Ukraine tensions: Biden agrees in principle to summit with Putin

The meeting, proposed by France, will only take place if Russia does not invade Ukraine, the US says.

www.bbc.com

 

[Craig234]

I suspect the context is Russia recognizing the separatist regions is what the poster is referring to; it's a good way to justify sending in troops. The other concerning part is the blame placed at Ukraine for incursions into Russia; which if accurate, could very well be the false flag scenario the US has warned about.

What is the 'if accurate' you mention? If Russia's making the claims is accurate? Or if the acts they allege are accurate? I don't think there's much 'if accurate' involved. It seems clearly to be the pretenses the US has been saying they'd do.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

The false flag has begun and next comes the invasion. Watch the news for more details.

Since you did not post a link to prove there is a false flag, I need to assume it does not exist.

 

[Craig234]

I assume Craig234 you mean me ........

No. Maybe you're in the 'at least' but I was not thinking of you or anyone else in particular in the 'at least'. But I don't want to call someone out and have it look like they're being overly criticized, they don't deserve to have that reaction to their post.

 

[Jay59]

Putin officially declares Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics as separate states.
I guess the next step, if Trumpers take the White House and Congress, will be to have Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama and Florida declared
independent states by President DeSantis. And Speaker of the House Trump will marshall a majority only vote in the House and "Leader" McConnell will do the same in the Senate.

One significant problem with this. Trump is one of the most anti-military people to pass through the White House. To give due credit, when the military was asked to do something they performed well and Trump stayed out of their way. However, it was a very short leash. The problem with Biden is that he might back into a situation where his only option is military.

Wars never start when an aggressor pushes. Wars start when a defender pushes back.

 

[Razoo]

where are the economic sanctions from all concerned governments

we'll see to what extent this proceeds.......

I assume Craig234 you mean me ........

11 Hours ago.......
US President Joe Biden has agreed "in principle" to hold a summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin to discuss the crisis over Ukraine.

The talks proposed by France will only take place if Russia does not invade its neighbour, the White House said.
The Kremlin, meanwhile, said there were no "concrete plans" for a summit.

It is hoped that such talks could offer a possible diplomatic solution to one of the worst security crises in Europe in decades.

US officials say intelligence suggests Russia is ready to launch a military operation, which Moscow denies.

The proposed summit was announced by the French presidency after two phone calls between President Emmanuel Macron and Mr Putin, which went on for almost three hours in total.

Ukraine tensions: Biden agrees in principle to summit with Putin

The meeting, proposed by France, will only take place if Russia does not invade Ukraine, the US says.

www.bbc.com

Speaking on CNN, Secretary Blinken said "everything we are seeing suggests that this is dead serious" and that "we are on the brink of an invasion".

"Until the tanks are actually rolling, and the planes are flying, we will use every opportunity and every minute we have to see if diplomacy can still dissuade President Putin from carrying this forward," he added.

But Ukraine's Defence Minister Oleksii Reznikov said an attack "tomorrow or the day after tomorrow" was unlikely as no Russian "strike groups" had yet formed near the border.

His comments came as unverified reports in the US media suggested Washington believed an attack could be launched imminently.

CBS News reported the US had intelligence that Russian commanders on the ground had received orders to proceed with an invasion and were now making specific battle plans on how to attack.
The report said an invasion would begin with a cyber-assault followed by a campaign of missile and airstrikes, before ground units attempted to take the capital Kyiv.

And an unnamed intelligence official told CNN close to 75% of Russia's conventional forces were now poised at the Ukrainian border. The concentration of Russian forces within striking distance of Ukraine was highly unusual, the source said.

Again Ukraine's Defence Minister Oleksii Reznikov said an attack "tomorrow or the day after tomorrow" was unlikely as no Russian "strike groups" had yet formed near the border.

In other developments:

Ukraine tensions: Biden agrees in principle to summit with Putin

The meeting, proposed by France, will only take place if Russia does not invade Ukraine, the US says.

www.bbc.com