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Well the false flag has begun

I wonder if future Ukrainians will not be allowed to teach their children what actually happened during this period.

No, people might get offended if they are taught about their crimes their nation once committed. Instead, the future government will ban any teaching of Critical Russian Theory.
 
He can't. He can do some things. But he has to do things involving other countries, and is subject to a lot of punishment, and he can't nuke his way out of the problems; actually using his nukes wouldn't solve much for him.
Are we going to go to war with Russia? Like a real war?
 
No, people might get offended if they are taught about their crimes their nation once committed. Instead, the future government will ban any teaching of Critical Russian Theory.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
Are we going to go to war with Russia? Like a real war?

Unlikely, but a proxy war seems pretty likely, if Putin doesn't get in line.

We tool up the locals and send in the special forces guys and air support, etc.

I guess I'll hope for another Afghanistan '79, but prepare for another Vietnam.
 
Russia recognized the independence of regions that are not under Ukrainian control as it is. It may move troops into those regions. If Ukraine tries to prevent that then there will be fighting, in which Ukraine would lose and provide Russia the excuse to go further into Ukraine.

Short term best move for Ukraine is to do nothing. It does not control the regions as it is, any attack to retake those regions would result in far more losses and probable territorial loses

If Putin stops at declaring the regions independent and places troops into it, he prevents any wider fighting, gains prestige in Russia and make Ukraine and the US look weak. This is what I expected Russia to do. If it is all that is done, then everyone will breathe a sigh of relief as a real invasion is avoided
 
Unlikely, but a proxy war seems pretty likely, if Putin doesn't get in line.

We tool up the locals and send in the special forces guys and air support, etc.

I guess I'll hope for another Afghanistan '79, but prepare for another Vietnam.
Ukrainian territory is vastly different than Afghanistan and Vietnam. The regions that were declared independent are primarily ethnic Russian, it is not mountainous, nor a jungle. If there is a proxy war, in this case Russia would bomb other parts of Ukraine, it did not have that choice in Afghanistan, the US tried it in Vietnam (bombing Laos and Cambodia )
 
It began a week ago IIRC, when Putin filed a 'concern' at the United Nations about shelling in East Ukraine. I've been saying for the whole situation I thought Putin is likely to invade, with that only increasing to nearly 100%. I listed some indicators as they happened, such as his evacuating his super-yacht from NATO and rescheduling nuclear missile tests, and there are many more.

Our trigger should be as soon as the 'peacekeepers' cross the border without permission, the war starts, and our complete sanctions start.

While Putin is very wrong here, and war is not the time for a good discussion of this, as I understand Ukraine is split in two between the pro-Russia side and the pro-west side, and there's long been an issue what to do about that.

I wonder if having the pro-Russian side move to Russia might not have some benefits, stabilizing Ukraine into a more unified state, and it's better than Putin entering the pro-west side of the country and overthrowing the government, though getting there by Putin's use of force is not the way to do it.

People might want to make analogies to Hitler's taking of the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia, and the history of the false peace by agreeing to it, but as I understand that regions actually did prefer to be part of Germany, and there's no reason but Hitler's choices and agenda why that might not have been a reasonable plan. Not every concession need be treated as exactly the same 'appeasement'.

Unfortunately, such changes should be discussed in a context of peace and justice and not under conditions of war, and even doing the right thing can be ill-advised when it rewards wrong.

These situations, unfortunately tend to be dominated by power over justice, selfishness over justice, and people like to simplify them to the point of black and white. So that people have difficulty recognizing 'here's where they're wrong' (long list for Russia), and 'here's where we might be wrong', not a short list either.

Face-saving pursuit of justice is a lot easier when the use of force hasn't changed the issue to the need to punish aggression, and having concessions look 'weak'. Wars can be fought over 'appearances' sometimes. Putin's warmaking and treachery has stabbed peace in the heart - but I think we should not forget that peaceful avenues might not have been opened by us at times, as well.

Remember how well we defended 'every country's right to choose its own alliances' when Cuba chose to ally with the USSR. Putin would have to launch dozens of assassination attempts and years of covert terrorism in Ukraine as WELL as an invasion just to match us. Two wrongs don't make a right and we need to oppose his aggression, but that might not be the whole story, also.
If people were like you in the 30-40's, Americans would be speaking German
 
The false flag has begun and next comes the invasion. Watch the news for more details.
You should stop watching alex jones. Everything is a false flag to ****er. 9-11, mass shooting, other terrorist attacks. He probably even thinks floods and tornados are false flags too.



 
It was only a matter of time, rather ignorant to think otherwise. Does the name Crimea mean anything to anyone? (He was going to do it again.)
 
Putin orders Russian forces to Ukraine rebel regions: Live | Ukraine-Russia  crisis News | Al Jazeera
 
Republicans have voiced VERY LITTLE to ZERO objection to what their ally Putin is doing right now. SAD day indeed for Reaganites too afraid to speak up.
FYI: Democrats used the "racist" filibuster to squash the last Russian sanctions bill in Congress.
 
maybe we can talk China into annexing North Korea.
 

And for irony:
The bill “would undermine the current diplomatic situation,” said Senator Jeanne Shaheen, a New Hampshire Democrat who had introduced earlier sanctions proposals with Cruz. “We are in a very different situation right now” than when two earlier bills were passed.
 
It began a week ago IIRC, when Putin filed a 'concern' at the United Nations about shelling in East Ukraine. I've been saying for the whole situation I thought Putin is likely to invade, with that only increasing to nearly 100%. I listed some indicators as they happened, such as his evacuating his super-yacht from NATO and rescheduling nuclear missile tests, and there are many more.

Our trigger should be as soon as the 'peacekeepers' cross the border without permission, the war starts, and our complete sanctions start.

While Putin is very wrong here, and war is not the time for a good discussion of this, as I understand Ukraine is split in two between the pro-Russia side and the pro-west side, and there's long been an issue what to do about that.

I wonder if having the pro-Russian side move to Russia might not have some benefits, stabilizing Ukraine into a more unified state, and it's better than Putin entering the pro-west side of the country and overthrowing the government, though getting there by Putin's use of force is not the way to do it.

People might want to make analogies to Hitler's taking of the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia, and the history of the false peace by agreeing to it, but as I understand that regions actually did prefer to be part of Germany, and there's no reason but Hitler's choices and agenda why that might not have been a reasonable plan. Not every concession need be treated as exactly the same 'appeasement'.

Unfortunately, such changes should be discussed in a context of peace and justice and not under conditions of war, and even doing the right thing can be ill-advised when it rewards wrong.

These situations, unfortunately tend to be dominated by power over justice, selfishness over justice, and people like to simplify them to the point of black and white. So that people have difficulty recognizing 'here's where they're wrong' (long list for Russia), and 'here's where we might be wrong', not a short list either.

Face-saving pursuit of justice is a lot easier when the use of force hasn't changed the issue to the need to punish aggression, and having concessions look 'weak'. Wars can be fought over 'appearances' sometimes. Putin's warmaking and treachery has stabbed peace in the heart - but I think we should not forget that peaceful avenues might not have been opened by us at times, as well.

Remember how well we defended 'every country's right to choose its own alliances' when Cuba chose to ally with the USSR. Putin would have to launch dozens of assassination attempts and years of covert terrorism in Ukraine as WELL as an invasion just to match us. Two wrongs don't make a right and we need to oppose his aggression, but that might not be the whole story, also.
Sorry but blah blah blah does not justify Putins obviously corrupt plans. No matter what excuses you make whatever Putin does will be bad for the Unkranins. His so-called 'peacekeepers' will further destabilize the region.

And FFS Putin has been on the ground in Ukraine for years now, doing all kinds of things you would have to be purposely blind to what he has done, to claim that his deeds are not worse. SO keep your pro-Cuba shit to yourself.
 
The false flag has begun and next comes the invasion. Watch the news for more details.

Looks like the troops may already be in, if the sources in my posts #4 & 5 in the thread below, are legit:

 
I have no idea what specifics context the OP is referring to, but for those of you who are interested, Putin has just ordered troops to the separatist regions to act as "peacekeepers".

**** Putin.
 
I think it's time for you to enlist and show some genuine resolve against all those GoPutins. ;)

The Army needs a few good men.

I'll be fighting traitor Republicans before I fight Russians. After all, Trumpsters are the bigger threat to our democracy.
 
No. Maybe you're in the 'at least' but I was not thinking of you or anyone else in particular in the 'at least'. But I don't want to call someone out and have it look like they're being overly criticized, they don't deserve to have that reaction to their post.
We are not conservatives who are ordered not to disagree with their powers that be. So because of who we are and how we think yes we will sometimes disagree which sparks healthy debate and worthwhile conversation which is why the PDA and moderates from the former GOP should be managing the country.

Some day will come ........
 
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