We need to hold the poor accountable

[CanadaJohn]

So we should all learn to live comfortably on the $10 a day that illegal immigrants get paid?

Okay. You first.

I don't credit the accuracy of your claim, but even if it's true, they seem to keep flooding across your southern border for some reason - are you claiming that once they arrive they become Americanized poor and just give up?

 

[JC Callender]

Actually, we are all that lucky. There's the federal Earned Income Tax Credit that can give up to several thousand dollars in refund to low income earners, along with the Child Tax Credit which gives $1000 for each kid under 17, The Child and Dependent Care Credit for those who put kids in daycare, the American Opportunity Credit for those with kids going to college, and many more! But many of these credits along with all of the other government entitlements are often what's keeping people from trying harder to make a better living for themselves. You could say that in some cases, our government is subsidizing failure.

How lovely, we aren't all so lucky though. Not to mention that is exactly the sort of thing that most of the "hold the poor accountable" crowd want to eliminate entirely.

 

[mak2]

No actually they work for some buisness for less than minimum wage ensuring the owner even more profit. Probably while that same owner complains of all those poor people who are bleeding him...

I don't credit the accuracy of your claim, but even if it's true, they seem to keep flooding across your southern border for some reason - are you claiming that once they arrive they become Americanized poor and just give up?

 

[Fisher]

How lovely, we aren't all so lucky though. Not to mention that is exactly the sort of thing that most of the "hold the poor accountable" crowd want to eliminate entirely.

I oppose the EIC simply because I see so many people just blow that money and I do truly believe that some people work just enough to make sure they get it but not so much they do not. I would have less of a problem with it if the money were sent in pro-rated payments every month or quarter to avoid seeing people be suckered out of it or blowing it on a bender. I would also not give it for Head of Household for unrelated people. People claim other people's kids just to maximize their checks.

 

[CanadaJohn]

So like I said that you took offense to. Let them starve?

Not at all - there are very few people who actually decide to starve as a life choice - however, the OP question was, in my view, one that requires an idealistic response, which I gave - If you want me to solve the world's problems, that's an entirely different question.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

No actually they work for some buisness for less than minimum wage ensuring the owner even more profit. Probably while that same owner complains of all those poor people who are bleeding him...

When one enters a country illegally he/she should expect to be taken advantage of by those the government refuses to hold accountable. Are you trying to make a logical point?

 

[Goshin]

Actually, we are all that lucky. There's the federal Earned Income Tax Credit that can give up to several thousand dollars in refund to low income earners, along with the Child Tax Credit which gives $1000 for each kid under 17, The Child and Dependent Care Credit for those who put kids in daycare, the American Opportunity Credit for those with kids going to college, and many more! But many of these credits along with all of the other government entitlements are often what's keeping people from trying harder to make a better living for themselves. You could say that in some cases, our government is subsidizing failure.

You could also say that the gov't is subsidizing those who work hard and don't get paid **** because greedy bastards would rather move their factories to a Third World country and pay slave wages.

The way to look at it isn't "oh no, 47% aren't paying Fud income tax, they're cheating!"

Nope. The way to look at it is "WHY in the HELL are 47% of Americans so damn poor they can't AFFORD to pay Federal income tax!!?!?? How did it get this bad in America??"

 

[mak2]

YOu first, what was your point?

When one enters a country illegally he/she should expect to be taken advantage of by those the government refuses to hold accountable. Are you trying to make a logical point?

 

[CanadaJohn]

No actually they work for some buisness for less than minimum wage ensuring the owner even more profit. Probably while that same owner complains of all those poor people who are bleeding him...

My point, which you missed entirely, was that people from poor parts of the world flood into America and other first world countries and they are truly poor and they don't just accept their lot in life, they work hard to improve it for themselves and their families - the point being, if you are prepared to settle for what you have, you are accountable and responsible for that decision.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

YOu first, what was your point?

What should a person expect to receive when entering a country illegally? Is this easy enough to understand?

 

[StillBallin75]

The "47% of people don't pay federal income tax" mantra is getting rather old. How many times must it be pointed out that the "47%" pay FICA and payroll taxes not to mention taxes at the state and local level and consumption/excise/sales taxes?

 

[mak2]

I did not miss it. Do you think the WIC program and programs like it should exist?

My point, which you missed entirely, was that people from poor parts of the world flood into America and other first world countries and they are truly poor and they don't just accept their lot in life, they work hard to improve it for themselves and their families - the point being, if you are prepared to settle for what you have, you are accountable and responsible for that decision.

 

[JC Callender]

Maybe they're "poor" because there's not incentive to earn more, I mean, you can survive easily off of the government and a little earned income and then do some side work under the table instead of taking on the responsibility of a career. In other words, there's no need to believe that the "poor" have it all that bad with all of the benefits there are to take advantage of.

You could also say that the gov't is subsidizing those who work hard and don't get paid **** because greedy bastards would rather move their factories to a Third World country and pay slave wages.

The way to look at it isn't "oh no, 47% aren't paying Fud income tax, they're cheating!"

Nope. The way to look at it is "WHY in the HELL are 47% of Americans so damn poor they can't AFFORD to pay Federal income tax!!?!?? How did it get this bad in America??"

 

[CanadaJohn]

I did not miss it. Do you think the WIC program and programs like it should exist?

No, I don't believe they "should" exist but since too many people don't take responsibility and are not accountable for themselves and those they create, such programs "must" exist in a society respectful of life in all its forms.

 

[JC Callender]

The "47% of people don't pay federal income tax" mantra is getting rather old. How many times must it be pointed out that the "47%" pay FICA and payroll taxes not to mention taxes at the state and local level and consumption/excise/sales taxes?

And what do they get back on their tax returns? The answer is often more than they put in, sometimes much more.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I came across this webpage. It offered very interesting opinions for initially touting a "GUIDE TO TRUE COMPASSION FOR THE POOR"





So my question is: What do you think "The Poor" should be held accountable for?

The soup-du-jour, so to speak, is to just keep bleeding the rich. Punish them for their successes. Find a way to heist as much of their money from them as possible. But what about the other end of the spectrum? Do the poor just get a free pass? Statistically 76 million households didn't pay income tax in 2011. But these people still enjoy all of societies pleasures. They still get their trash taken away. Their kids still go to school. The police & fire department still come to their house when called. Many are on welfare. Many use food stamps. They're basically living high on someone else's hog. Shouldn't they be shepherded out of poverty status, whether they want that or not?

So what should the poor be accountable for? Should they be forced to pay something in taxes every year? Hell $100.00 per year (according to the above statistic) would bring in $7.6 billion in taxes. What poor family can't afford $100.00? They can sure afford the iPhone or internet bills. Should the poor be forced to complete (and pass) minimum education standards? Should unwed welfare mothers be forced into birth control regimens, because Government can't afford to pay for their kids? I mean...c'mon...even that 30-year old guy living in Mommy's basement usually contributes something.

For the trolls: This thread is about the poor, not the rich.

Are we going to hold the rich accountable, too?

 

[Fog hit]

Most people, no matter where they are, want to be productive. We are not only facing a crisis of over taxed relief for the poor, we are facing a crisis of automation. We are the verge of jobs being lost to automation geometrically, as the population is rising geometrically... What do we do when the two converge?

It will be bad enough for China and India, as well as many over populated states.

The issue/argument becomes a knowing of a cataclysmic disaster coming, and not one state, philosophy, ideology, or think tank has an answer.

As the disparity between the wealthy and the poor grows, the future will be a desperate struggle just to survive what's coming.

Instead of arguing, and blaming... answers better come soon, or the whole thing will be burned to the ground.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

I oppose the EIC simply because I see so many people just blow that money and I do truly believe that some people work just enough to make sure they get it but not so much they do not. I would have less of a problem with it if the money were sent in pro-rated payments every month or quarter to avoid seeing people be suckered out of it or blowing it on a bender. I would also not give it for Head of Household for unrelated people. People claim other people's kids just to maximize their checks.

Yea, the way it happens here is, when people get their tax refunds, they generally take time off of work to blow it.
When they come back, they complain that they're broke again and struggle.
It's like clockwork.

Instead of using the money as hedge against future fiscal problems, they just spend it on luxuries.
Just sad really.

 

[Bob N]

So what should the poor be accountable for? Should they be forced to pay something in taxes every year? Hell $100.00 per year (according to the above statistic) would bring in $7.6 billion in taxes. What poor family can't afford $100.00? They can sure afford the iPhone or internet bills. Should the poor be forced to complete (and pass) minimum education standards? Should unwed welfare mothers be forced into birth control regimens, because Government can't afford to pay for their kids? I mean...c'mon...even that 30-year old guy living in Mommy's basement usually contributes something.

Well if the poor do pay $100.00 a year, to be fair about this, shouldn't they be afforded the same niceties as the rich and be able to put their money in to an offshore account thus owing nothing? Also lets give them tax deductions on entertaining some of their friends like business people do with meetings and taking clients out to lunch; and we can't forget tax deductions on those iphones and internet bills because they are trying to find jobs--just like the rich uses deductions and loopholes to create jobs, right? :roll:

Maybe you're right about the unwed mother-thing too; I mean don't you think that the same should be done with the American public having the right to get in on contracts between companies and CEOS, so we (public) do not have to help pay for a CEO'S mistakes when he/she ruins the company and the business runs to the government to help them out? :roll:

 

[Fog hit]

Yea, the way it happens here is, when people get their tax refunds, they generally take time off of work to blow it.
When they come back, they complain that they're broke again and struggle.
It's like clockwork.

Instead of using the money as hedge against future fiscal problems, they just spend it on luxuries.
Just sad really.

2 specious comments, based on specious stereotypes

There but for fortune, go you and I.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

2 specious comments, based on specious stereotypes

There but for fortune, go you and I.

No it's not a stereotype.
There is a set group of people, at my place of employment who do this.
Not everyone and not all of them are poor.

I'd guesstimate that some are lower middle to middle income households.
They still treat this found money like lottery winnings though.
It gets spent on superfluous stuff and they're all to eager to share the news.

 

[Fog hit]

No it's not a stereotype.
There is a set group of people, at my place of employment who do this.
Not everyone and not all of them are poor.

I'd guesstimate that some are lower middle to middle income households.
They still treat this found money like lottery winnings though.
It gets spent on superfluous stuff and they're all to eager to share the news.

And you think this is indicative of a large sector of our population Harry?

 

[AlabamaPaul]

And you think this is indicative of a large sector of our population Harry?

Larger than you may want to think deMo. Good evening...

 

[Fog hit]

Larger than you may want to think deMo. Good evening...

Hey my friend. Hope all is well.

But... Okay, its larger than I think. What's your answer?

 

[SheWolf]

I came across this webpage. It offered very interesting opinions for initially touting a "GUIDE TO TRUE COMPASSION FOR THE POOR"





So my question is: What do you think "The Poor" should be held accountable for?

The soup-du-jour, so to speak, is to just keep bleeding the rich. Punish them for their successes. Find a way to heist as much of their money from them as possible. But what about the other end of the spectrum? Do the poor just get a free pass? Statistically 76 million households didn't pay income tax in 2011. But these people still enjoy all of societies pleasures. They still get their trash taken away. Their kids still go to school. The police & fire department still come to their house when called. Many are on welfare. Many use food stamps. They're basically living high on someone else's hog. Shouldn't they be shepherded out of poverty status, whether they want that or not?

So what should the poor be accountable for? Should they be forced to pay something in taxes every year? Hell $100.00 per year (according to the above statistic) would bring in $7.6 billion in taxes. What poor family can't afford $100.00? They can sure afford the iPhone or internet bills. Should the poor be forced to complete (and pass) minimum education standards? Should unwed welfare mothers be forced into birth control regimens, because Government can't afford to pay for their kids? I mean...c'mon...even that 30-year old guy living in Mommy's basement usually contributes something.

For the trolls: This thread is about the poor, not the rich.

So sending your kids to public schools and having modern day plumbing is "living high on the hog."

And I was on if those millions not paying federal income tax a few years ago. I worked part time, was a student, and my parents claimed me as
a dependent. Exactly what kind of non tax payers are you griping about?