We need to hold the poor accountable

[Fog hit]

AP... hope you're work week is short and good.

A good evening to you all.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

AP... hope you're work week is short and good.

A good evening to you all.

Good night deMo...

 

[Neomalthusian]

And unfortunately... their children would pay the price for the transgressions of their parents.

They do in any event. Welfare does not neutralize crappy parenting.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

But I doubt she is a typical representative of the poor.

It might not be "typical" yet, but this IS becoming more and more prevalent.

The question is: Shouldn't everyone be accountable? Why pile all the burdens on such a small percentage of people? All people can whine about is "the rich." Well, does that really mean "the poor" are totally free from contributing to society? If not "totally," then what should they be accountable for? I'm not saying Mr. Lower Class Guy has to pay the same amount of taxes as Mr. CEO, but damn....does he really need to get off scott free?? If so, then why? Just because he doesn't have as much? That's not "fair," that's "wealth envy."

 

[Mason66]

You didn't look at the link I included, did you?

There are low income earners who will get back several thousand dollars in tax refunds alone this year, not to mention all of the other benefits. And two of our state benefits are the Michigan Home Heating Credit and the Homestead Credit, to take care of those having trouble with rent and heat. I get several hundred dollars back this year from the Homestead Credit alone.

I had a girlfriend that had 3 kids, one disabled.

She got a refund of around $3000 from the feds at tax time.

She was also on welfare and section 8 housing.

The state government told her she had to spend the $3000 on something that did not create an assett or she would lose the section 8 housing and the othe benefits.

I told her I would give her a receipt for the money for whatever and hold the money in cash for when she needed it. She told me no she had to spend it and went out and blew it.

Money management is a big problem with people that don't have much to spend.

 

[Superfly]

This is a good one too.
I love cracked.

The 5 Stupidest Habits You Develop Growing Up Poor | Cracked.com

Hmph. I thought cracked.com was more of a comedy website, but I saw no real comedy in that article at all. In fact, it's pretty spot-on. I grew up dirt poor, and was still very poor up until about 10 years ago. We still aren't wealthy, by a long shot, but we are comfortable. However, I still do alot of what that article says, and I haven't had to "count beans" for years. It's a hard habit to break.

 

[Superfly]

Also, I do see the point where people are complaining about poor people blowing their income tax, or blowing any extra money they get, but if you've never been really, really poor, you just don't understand. Sometimes you just get tired of paying the rent, paying the electric, paying the phone and paying insurance. What little you have left over has to go for gas for the week, and then if there's anything left over after that, you use it for groceries.

If you've never had to live like that, it's an awful way to live. My mother used to stretch $15 a week on groceries for 6 people. This wasn't 50 years ago, either. It was 20. I guarantee you if my Mother had gotten any windfall cash, it would have gone for things that we wanted/needed, that we couldn't afford to buy. Is it the responsible way to spend? Hell NO it's not. But when you have to be responsible 24/7, 365, sometimes you just want to be irresponsible. And if feels really good.

 

[Muhammed]

Many are on welfare. Many use food stamps. They're basically living high on someone else's hog.

I vote this to be the most ridiculous statement ever at DP.

Yep, those poor people are living high on the hog! That's why they need food stamps to survive.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I vote this to be the most ridiculous statement ever at DP.

Yep, those poor people are living high on the hog! That's why they need food stamps to survive.

The bold gives it a run for its money in terms of ridiculousness, as generally people wouldn't die without food stamps.

 

[Chelsea]

The bold gives it a run for its money in terms of ridiculousness, as generally people wouldn't die without food stamps.

No they would do what my husband and I have had to do for the past month and a half waiting to get our benefits back after a hospitilization put us in violation of TANF requirements. We hit every foodbank possible, borrowed some money, sold everything we had to pay rent after my husbands paycheck and now we steal food from various stores and video games/movies and sell them to survive or else my kids wouldnt eat and we would be homeless. The poor would refuse to starve to death like we do. Although before we began stealing food and eating donuts and fruits ain the store I dropped from 5:4 135 lbs to 5:4 108lbs with the foodbanks

 

[mak2]

Ok, I'll buy that. I agree.

No, I don't believe they "should" exist but since too many people don't take responsibility and are not accountable for themselves and those they create, such programs "must" exist in a society respectful of life in all its forms.

 

[66gardeners]

I always like how none of these "the poor are parasites and moochers" rants ever manages to articulate exactly how the poor are responsible for this situation. The closest anyone ever comes is that they "make bad choices". But what those choices are, or what realistic alternatives they had, is never said.

It also seems like it is always the person ranting about the poor who seems to know personally all these people who are so-called parasites.

 

[samsmart]

I came across this webpage. It offered very interesting opinions for initially touting a "GUIDE TO TRUE COMPASSION FOR THE POOR"





So my question is: What do you think "The Poor" should be held accountable for?

The soup-du-jour, so to speak, is to just keep bleeding the rich. Punish them for their successes. Find a way to heist as much of their money from them as possible. But what about the other end of the spectrum? Do the poor just get a free pass? Statistically 76 million households didn't pay income tax in 2011. But these people still enjoy all of societies pleasures. They still get their trash taken away. Their kids still go to school. The police & fire department still come to their house when called. Many are on welfare. Many use food stamps. They're basically living high on someone else's hog. Shouldn't they be shepherded out of poverty status, whether they want that or not?

So what should the poor be accountable for? Should they be forced to pay something in taxes every year? Hell $100.00 per year (according to the above statistic) would bring in $7.6 billion in taxes. What poor family can't afford $100.00? They can sure afford the iPhone or internet bills. Should the poor be forced to complete (and pass) minimum education standards? Should unwed welfare mothers be forced into birth control regimens, because Government can't afford to pay for their kids? I mean...c'mon...even that 30-year old guy living in Mommy's basement usually contributes something.

For the trolls: This thread is about the poor, not the rich.

Let's hold the poor accountable when we also make the corporate executives who lobby for tax breaks and bailouts accountable too.

 

[66gardeners]

Pardon me if I have trouble crying real tears for someone who made $400,000 last year and is pissed they only get to keep $240,000, when there are so many people struggling and WORKING to feed a family on less than $25,000.


Pardon me if someone being more concerned with "holding the poor accountable"... the poor who are barely staying this side of HOMELESS in this economy already... than with whether the poor are going without heat or medical care trying to buy groceries because Mama lost her job and can't find another, and Daddy's hours at the factory were cut AGAIN.

Not to mention the poor have not seen a real increase in their income in decades while the well off in this country have seen their incomes soar. Companies seem to want to reward only CEOs will bonuses for getting away with paying lowly employees next to nothing.

 

[66gardeners]

I'm not sure what WIC stands for, so I can't respond directly. I was simply stating that every person is responsible and accountable for their own life and the lives they bring into this world. There are no people born or genetically tagged to be poor in western society - I presume you're not referring to those born into poverty in Africa or some parts of southern Asia, etc., but in North America. If a poor Central American can travel thousands of miles, cross your border illegally, make a life for himself and bring his family into the country and raise children in America all while mostly living in the shadows, creating that life solely on the basis of his hard work and a desire for a better life, then there's not much excuse for any able bodied, sound of mind, individual born into this great society we enjoy.

That is where you are wrong. Everyone is not born with the same opportunities in life in North America.

Someone who does not have to worry about grades to enter Harvard or Princeton (in fact their grades or mediocre) because their family can pay full price and their parent is an alumni has far more of an advantage than someone who has one absent parent and the other making minimum wage.

 

[66gardeners]

Actually, we are all that lucky. There's the federal Earned Income Tax Credit that can give up to several thousand dollars in refund to low income earners, along with the Child Tax Credit which gives $1000 for each kid under 17, The Child and Dependent Care Credit for those who put kids in daycare, the American Opportunity Credit for those with kids going to college, and many more! But many of these credits along with all of the other government entitlements are often what's keeping people from trying harder to make a better living for themselves. You could say that in some cases, our government is subsidizing failure.

So why are republicans against giving those making minimum wage a raise? The average job wages in this country has gone down in the last decade.

 

[66gardeners]

When one enters a country illegally he/she should expect to be taken advantage of by those the government refuses to hold accountable. Are you trying to make a logical point?

The laws on the books should also be enforced and all employers who hire people who are not legally able to work should be jailed.

Why do republicans think it is OK to hire them so they can suck off society by paying extremely low wages?

 

[66gardeners]

Maybe they're "poor" because there's not incentive to earn more, I mean, you can survive easily off of the government and a little earned income and then do some side work under the table instead of taking on the responsibility of a career. In other words, there's no need to believe that the "poor" have it all that bad with all of the benefits there are to take advantage of.

Who are all these people you know who are happy to be poor and suck off the gov't?

 

[mak2]

Buisness owners are the ONLY reason we have an immigration problem in this country.

The laws on the books should also be enforced and all employers who hire people who are not legally able to work should be jailed.

Why do republicans think it is OK to hire them so they can suck off society by paying extremely low wages?

 

[66gardeners]

Yea, the way it happens here is, when people get their tax refunds, they generally take time off of work to blow it.
When they come back, they complain that they're broke again and struggle.
It's like clockwork.

Instead of using the money as hedge against future fiscal problems, they just spend it on luxuries.
Just sad really.

Are you serious? I don't know anyone who does that.

 

[mak2]

I have relatives that are worthless POS's. They are healthy and able to work, but simply live off the family, I physically threw them out of a rental I owned. These types of people are the excpetions, they are lazy turds who should be allowed to starve as far as I am concerned. So I am not one of those sniveling do gooders. I do beleive those types are the exceptions rather than the rule. If I wanted to adopt the Republican stance on poverty I would have to convience myself everyone was like those lazy people to justify my greed and callousness toward my fellow man. That is how they justify it.

Are you serious? I don't know anyone who does that.

 

[Superfly]

The bold gives it a run for its money in terms of ridiculousness, as generally people wouldn't die without food stamps.

I'll bet you've never gone to bed at night with your stomach growling. This is just silly. For many, food stamps are the only source of food people have, and if you take that away, you take away their food. How selfish would that be?

 

[66gardeners]

I have relatives that are worthless POS's. They are healthy and able to work, but simply live off the family, I physically threw them out of a rental I owned. These types of people are the excpetions, they are lazy turds who should be allowed to starve as far as I am concerned. So I am not one of those sniveling do gooders. I do beleive those types are the exceptions rather than the rule. If I wanted to adopt the Republican stance on poverty I would have to convience myself everyone was like those lazy people to justify my greed and callousness toward my fellow man. That is how they justify it.

The apple does not fall far from the tree when it comes to relatives, you know. I do not have ANY relatives that are on welfare or who have ever been on welfare. My huband and I live on less than $40,000 per year. We have never been well off. We DID spend our money wisely and paid our house off after 21 years.

 

[mak2]

You talking about me?

The apple does not fall far from the tree when it comes to relatives, you know. I do not have ANY relatives that are on welfare or who have ever been on welfare. My huband and I live on less than $40,000 per year. We have never been well off. We DID spend our money wisely and paid our house off after 21 years.

 

[cpwill]

I always like how none of these "the poor are parasites and moochers" rants ever manages to articulate exactly how the poor are responsible for this situation. The closest anyone ever comes is that they "make bad choices". But what those choices are, or what realistic alternatives they had, is never said.

I don't know about you, but I've seen several lists of such choices on here dozens of times.

Pew Charitable Trusts did a study on what causes people to fall out of the middle class and into poverty. The number one reason is divorce. The number two reason is failure to marry. Then you have drug usage and the failure to achieve academically (such as, for example, graduate high school). All of these things typically involve choices made. You aren't to blame if you start poor, and you aren't necessarily to blame if you remain low-income your whole life long. But you are reasonably held to account for the choices you make, and shouldn't expect the right to coerce others to make up for them, should you choose poorly. That is merely the poor-man's version of bailing out bad bankers who make stupid risks with other people's money. A bad game for all concerned.