We need to hold the poor accountable

[66gardeners]

You talking about me?

After further thought, I apologize for inferring that you are like your relatives. I do know of instances where relatives could not be rehabilitated. My own brother who is now deceased and who I had forgoten about all the horrors growing up with a sociopath.

I think sociopaths are more common that we think, and it could be what is causing these so-called low lifes from achieving. They think the world owes them.

I know my brother was given the same opportunities as I was as far as education and parents. He went from one job to the next and never had any children, thank goodness.

 

[ReformCollege]

I came across this webpage. It offered very interesting opinions for initially touting a "GUIDE TO TRUE COMPASSION FOR THE POOR"





So my question is: What do you think "The Poor" should be held accountable for?

The soup-du-jour, so to speak, is to just keep bleeding the rich. Punish them for their successes. Find a way to heist as much of their money from them as possible. But what about the other end of the spectrum? Do the poor just get a free pass? Statistically 76 million households didn't pay income tax in 2011. But these people still enjoy all of societies pleasures. They still get their trash taken away. Their kids still go to school. The police & fire department still come to their house when called. Many are on welfare. Many use food stamps. They're basically living high on someone else's hog. Shouldn't they be shepherded out of poverty status, whether they want that or not?

So what should the poor be accountable for? Should they be forced to pay something in taxes every year? Hell $100.00 per year (according to the above statistic) would bring in $7.6 billion in taxes. What poor family can't afford $100.00? They can sure afford the iPhone or internet bills. Should the poor be forced to complete (and pass) minimum education standards? Should unwed welfare mothers be forced into birth control regimens, because Government can't afford to pay for their kids? I mean...c'mon...even that 30-year old guy living in Mommy's basement usually contributes something.

For the trolls: This thread is about the poor, not the rich.

Prepare to have your character questioned.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, but I do think society owes the poor a better chance at succeeding. It goes both ways.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

If you were to compare the income of the wealthy with the S&P you would see that the answer is "Not so much"

The S&P " is a stock market index based on the market capitalizations of 500 leading companies publicly traded in the U.S. stock market, as determined by Standard & Poor's." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S&P_500) So you are comparing the wealth of an individual to the wealth of 500 companies. Because that makes so much sense.

 

[Fisher]

The S&P " is a stock market index based on the market capitalizations of 500 leading companies publicly traded in the U.S. stock market, as determined by Standard & Poor's." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S&P_500) So you are comparing the wealth of an individual to the wealth of 500 companies. Because that makes so much sense.

Compare the income of the wealthiest with the performance patterns of the S&P. They trend together.

 

[66gardeners]

I had a girlfriend that had 3 kids, one disabled.

She got a refund of around $3000 from the feds at tax time. She was also on welfare and section 8 housing.

The state government told her she had to spend the $3000 on something that did not create an assett or she would lose the section 8 housing and the othe benefits.

I told her I would give her a receipt for the money for whatever and hold the money in cash for when she needed it. She told me no she had to spend it and went out and blew it.

Money management is a big problem with people that don't have much to spend.

I inadvertently replied to mak2 about his relatives, thinking you were the same person.

You can not pick your relatives. You can pick your girlfriends. I do have to say I do not blame her for not handing over her money to you. Your choice in friends, as per your description of them, is not the best. Have you fathered any of her children?

Who on welfare gets a $3,000 tax return? I call BS!

 

[JC Callender]

Source please?

So why are republicans against giving those making minimum wage a raise? The average job wages in this country has gone down in the last decade.

 

[JC Callender]

I didn't say they were happy. Why, is happiness the next entitlement you'll demand from our government?

Who are all these people you know who are happy to be poor and suck off the gov't?

 

[66gardeners]

Actually, we are all that lucky. There's the federal Earned Income Tax Credit that can give up to several thousand dollars in refund to low income earners, along with the Child Tax Credit which gives $1000 for each kid under 17, The Child and Dependent Care Credit for those who put kids in daycare, the American Opportunity Credit for those with kids going to college, and many more! But many of these credits along with all of the other government entitlements are often what's keeping people from trying harder to make a better living for themselves. You could say that in some cases, our government is subsidizing failure.

Maybe it was this comment that made me think your people are happy about it. If they aren't happy about it, why are you complaining about them anyway?

 

[Deuce]

Well, does that really mean "the poor" are totally free from contributing to society?

Why do you think they don't?

 

[Mason66]

I inadvertently replied to mak2 about his relatives, thinking you were the same person.

You can not pick your relatives. You can pick your girlfriends. I do have to say I do not blame her for not handing over her money to you. Your choice in friends, as per your description of them, is not the best. Have you fathered any of her children?

Who on welfare gets a $3,000 tax return? I call BS!

A lot of people get money back.

She had a kid that had cerebal palsey and a lot of it was for that.

What about my choice in friends? Where have you seen anything about my friends?

No I did not father her children. They were there when I got there.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I'll bet you've never gone to bed at night with your stomach growling. This is just silly. For many, food stamps are the only source of food people have, and if you take that away, you take away their food. How selfish would that be?

I don't giveth the food stamps, so I would not be taking them away. So it's hard to pin selfishness on any one person when it comes to a federal benefit program.

 

[Superfly]

I don't giveth the food stamps, so I would not be taking them away. So it's hard to pin selfishness on any one person when it comes to a federal benefit program.

No, but you are the one who said that people wouldn't die if they didn't have food stamps. For some people, food stamps are their only means to eat. If you don't eat, eventually you will die.

 

[Neomalthusian]

No, but you are the one who said that people wouldn't die if they didn't have food stamps. For some people, food stamps are their only means to eat.

Food is abundant in this country. There are many means to get food other than by the federal food stamp program.

 

[Superfly]

Food is abundant in this country. There are many means to get food other than by the federal food stamp program.

How? Food banks? They run dry, and often, as of late.

Grow their own? What about the people who live in the city? Or people who work 40 hours a week for minimum wage, and dont have time to tend a garden?

 

[Hard Truth]

"They're [the poor] basically living high on someone else's hog."

We should tax the poor at a very high rate for all income over $200K, impose a luxury tax on all of their second and third vehicles and yachts, and impose an inheritance tax on estates worth over two million. No more living high on the hog for those poor f*ckers.

 

[66gardeners]

A lot of people get money back.

She had a kid that had cerebal palsey and a lot of it was for that.

What about my choice in friends? Where have you seen anything about my friends?

No I did not father her children. They were there when I got there.

What I saw about your friends was what you, yourself, wrote about your former girlfrend.

 

[Mason66]

What I saw about your friends was what you, yourself, wrote about your former girlfrend.

Yes well that is what dating is for to get to know the person and decide if you can spend your life with somebody like that.

I chose not to

And what you said about her not giving me the money is it because you thought she thought I would steal it from her or what?

 

[66gardeners]

Yes well that is what dating is for to get to know the person and decide if you can spend your life with somebody like that.

I chose not to

And what you said about her not giving me the money is it because you thought she thought I would steal it from her or what?

No, not necessarily. It is just that I find a man typically wants to control all the money. It was her money and she could spend it any way she chose.

 

[66gardeners]

How? Food banks? They run dry, and often, as of late.

Grow their own? What about the people who live in the city? Or people who work 40 hours a week for minimum wage, and dont have time to tend a garden?

Why at Red Lobster, of course!

 

[Geoist]

I always like how none of these "the poor are parasites and moochers" rants ever manages to articulate exactly how the poor are responsible for this situation. The closest anyone ever comes is that they "make bad choices". But what those choices are, or what realistic alternatives they had, is never said.

I agree. While "poor choices" could explain for the bad living conditions of some people, it does not explain why it is a rampant problem worldwide. Would a conservative and neo-libertarian claim it is due to poor choices that the majority of Zimbabweans and Indians are in poverty? In most cases, the people were already growing up in poverty.

Mainstream libertarians need to stop the "blame the poor" garbage. It is a societal structure problem, not an individual problem.

 

[Superfly]

Why at Red Lobster, of course!

Right, because they have so much leftover disposable income.

 

[EarlzP]

The poor should be held accountable for their own wellbeing, and that of any offspring they produce, just as everyone else should also be so held. Nothing more, nothing less.

What would you suggest happen to the "offspring they produce"? I got it lets give them a pick and shovel and put the little offspringys to work. WTF why didn't those little offspringys pick parents that could provide for them are we all not responsible for our own choices. After all we have better ways to spend our money like borrowing from China to finance two wars or bailing out Wall Street and giving those who caused the collapse big year end bonuses.

 

[Neomalthusian]

How? Food banks? They run dry, and often, as of late.

Grow their own? What about the people who live in the city? Or people who work 40 hours a week for minimum wage, and dont have time to tend a garden?

Your argument-from-hopelessness is laden with assumptions that don't/wouldn't actually play out in this country. Starvation is really not as imminent as pro-welfare folks like to make it seem. If starvation were actually starting to happen, it would be an easy thing to solve charitably, primarily because of how cheaply we produce food. We wouldn't allow our own people to starve to death in the absence of a federal benefit program.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I agree. While "poor choices" could explain for the bad living conditions of some people, it does not explain why it is a rampant problem worldwide. Would a conservative and neo-libertarian claim it is due to poor choices that the majority of Zimbabweans and Indians are in poverty? In most cases, the people were already growing up in poverty.

Mainstream libertarians need to stop the "blame the poor" garbage. It is a societal structure problem, not an individual problem.

It doesn't matter "whose fault" it is that someone has limited means, unless something illegal is happening, but that's a justice system matter. In any event, with adults, the responsibility to improve their means is theirs. People are not (or should not be) anyone else's (or society's) legal dependents just because they're poor. The rights and responsibilities should apply equally to adults who are equally autonomous over their own lives.

 

[JC Callender]

Do Zimbabwe and India have a better national constitution, opportunities, and natural resources than we have? Are their entitlements as generous as ours?

I agree. While "poor choices" could explain for the bad living conditions of some people, it does not explain why it is a rampant problem worldwide. Would a conservative and neo-libertarian claim it is due to poor choices that the majority of Zimbabweans and Indians are in poverty? In most cases, the people were already growing up in poverty.

Mainstream libertarians need to stop the "blame the poor" garbage. It is a societal structure problem, not an individual problem.