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Washington Post "Trump won the night. Schumer and Pelosi lost."

dobieg said:
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https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/opinions-trump-won-the-night-schumer-and-pelosi-lost/ar-BBRZLKt


Well at least some of our liberal friends are being rational. Trump specifically lays out the cost and dangers of rampant illegal immigration while also extending compassion to those who come into our country illegally. Democratic leadership responds by throwing out insults and cheap political rhetoric while not once addressing a single issue.


We'll see in the coming days and weeks how the American public responds.
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I thought that "it's journalism's job to report the news, not interpret it." When did you do decide to do a 180 on this?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Nice dodge.

View attachment 67247647

I only ever recall liberals making the specific point that Shep Smith STANDS OUT from the rest of the Fox crowd.
On a personal level, I sincerely hope Shep Smith is enjoying the paycheck for being the token Fox liberal.

The renowned TV news anchor, Smith has an estimated net worth of $25 million dollars and a yearly salary of about $10 million dollars. His salary and net worth are second only to Sean Hannity.
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Sure enough, it took about 2 seconds to find liberals using good 'ol Shep as representative of Fox news.


From today's headlines.

Donald Trump's Border Speech Gets A Savage Instant Fact-Check On Fox News
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https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/donald-trump-apos-border-speech-054604564.html
 
Anyone notice how liberals rarely respond to content and instead nitpick at irrelevancies?
 
So trump won the ratings war for a prime time slot one night? Good for him, because that's usually enough to satisfy him.
 
uptower said:
So trump won the ratings war for a prime time slot one night? Good for him, because that's usually enough to satisfy him.
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Nope. He apparently lost it by about a million people. He's probably raging about it as we type.
 
Visbek said:
As noted, Thiessen isn't a liberal. He's a Republican and a conservative, who worked for Bush 43. If you actually read WaPo, you'd know they are generally left of center, but also publish right of center columnists and op-eds.

As a result, we also see today from WaPo....

Fact Check on Trump's speech - "The first misleading statement in President Trump’s Oval Office address Tuesday night came in the first sentence...."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-address-immigration/?utm_term=.20eec9bdc789

"Trump’s Oval Office address was a pure propaganda opportunity. Networks shouldn’t allow it next time."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...cfd62dbb0a8_story.html?utm_term=.e07916c874ad

"Trump used the Oval Office to try to create a border crisis"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ef28312c8b9_story.html?utm_term=.54d39ac4c3d9
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Just focusing on your first link here....

I find it amazing just how much spin is in that article. What they essentially did was admit that what Trump said is true...BUT..........and then spins it.

For example:

“Every day Customs and Border Patrol agents encounter thousands of illegal immigrants trying to enter our country.”

Southern border apprehensions in fiscal 2018 averaged 30,000 a month (or 1,000 a day). They ticked up in the first two months of fiscal 2019, but it’s a stretch to say “thousands” a day. Better to say “hundreds.”
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Their own "fact check" admits that 1000 a day entered the US during fiscal year 2018....yet instead of what was rightly said "thousands" (it IS a thousand after all) they instead downplay it to say he should have said "hundreds".

On the very next one after that they admit that illegal immigration does depress wages and jobs but then try to spin it by saying "halting illegal immigration is not a panacea even for the problem of depressed wage rates for low-skilled jobs,”. Trump never said it was. So that is them putting forth a strawman.

I can go on with each one. But plain fact of the matter is that all that this guy did was, essentially, lie to their readers. Trump wasn't the one being "misleading". That author was. Trump had a limited amount of air time to do his speech. This guy has unlimited internet space to state what he wants to state. Funnily enough the title says "Fact-checking President Trump’s Oval Office address on immigration" and yet his very first sentence is about "misleading statement"s....all while being misleading himself.
 
dobieg said:
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https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/opinions-trump-won-the-night-schumer-and-pelosi-lost/ar-BBRZLKt


Well at least some of our liberal friends are being rational. Trump specifically lays out the cost and dangers of rampant illegal immigration while also extending compassion to those who come into our country illegally. Democratic leadership responds by throwing out insults and cheap political rhetoric while not once addressing a single issue.


We'll see in the coming days and weeks how the American public responds.
Click to expand...

Can I post an opinion piece in breaking news that says Trump is a poopy head? LOL.
 
uptower said:
So trump won the ratings war for a prime time slot one night? Good for him, because that's usually enough to satisfy him.
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Good God, one finally had the balls to admit it!


A couple days ago MTAtech brought up a great point about single payer. They said "even if the cost was $3 trillion a year, the United States already pays $3.2 trillion in health insurance, not including what the government shells out. " I'm obviously conservative but they made a great point so I,.....jump back,.... agreed with them.


Why do people torture themselves from giving any ground on anything?
 
dobieg said:
Right now all the pressure seems to be on Trump over the shutdown. If this drags out I believe Democratic leadership's unwillingness to compromise will shift that pressure and blame.
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We can only hope.

The President campaigned on and continues to pledge his determination to fulfill his constitutional responsibility for homeland security.

He is promoting a wall to help deter illegal immigration to promote national security, i.e. to help law enforcement keep out the drug traffickers, sex traffickers, human traffickers, gangs, thieves, murderers, vandals, rapists, terrorists, et al who are inevitable among those who come illegally. Most illegal migrants aren't those things, but there are enough who are to be significant.

He is promoting a wall to help deter illegal immigration to promote the general welfare, i.e. not put onerous burdens on social services and to stop illegals from taking jobs from the poorest among us.

The above two provisions alone almost certainly would save the USA tens of billions if not hundreds of billions of dollars every year.

Thirdly, he is promoting a wall to help deter illegal immigration for humanitarian purposes, i.e. to discourage the danger and abuse and misuse of women and children who are persuaded or forced to make the dangerous journey to the U.S. border.

The border patrol, including Obama's former border patrol chief who was replaced by President Trump, all say that where good fencing exists, illegal immigration is far easier for them to manage and control. It doesn't keep out everybody, but it does keep out most.

So that is what the President wants. He had given the Democrats every single thing they wanted in the 2019 budget and all he has requested in return is meager funding for border security.

What the Democrats want seems to be unrestricted illegal immigration, open borders, and to refuse President Trump the tiniest political victory on anything. And they refuse to compromise or negotiate in any way re that meager funding.

It is the Democrats who shut down the government, not the President. And hopefully all thinking Americans will come to understand that.
 
AlbqOwl said:
It is the Democrats who shut down the government, not the President.
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Pretty certain that Republicans controlled the House, the Senate and the Presidency until just last week (for those keeping score at home, that means the shutdown happened before Dems controlled House).

Also, this:





The need Trump supporters have to blatantly lie is something I'll never understand.
 
Captain Adverse said:
This is the most telling part of your citation:

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/opinions-trump-won-the-night-schumer-and-pelosi-lost/ar-BBRZLKt

That has always been the problem with many in "The Resistance," their unwillingness to see any glimmer of positivity...so steeped are they in their negative mindset regarding the "Great Liar" Trump.
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First of all, he is a liar, with such regularity that we hardly notice any more. Just last week were the lies put out by the WH about terrorists caught on the southern border. Ho hum, another day, another lie by the Trump WH.

And in general, that was a borderline dishonest take by Thiessen. No, the Democrats didn't use the word "compromise" but they both said that they're open to negotiating their policy differences outside a government shutdown, which is to say they're open to compromise. That's what negotiations entail, give and take. And it's Trump who rejected the "compromise" solution of a CR through February to continue negotiations on wall and border security funding and in a childish whim issued his ultimatum, cutting off the knees of the GOP Senate who had just voted with no dissent to keep government open while those continued. It's like Thiessen is operating as if today is opposite day and we're not supposed to notice.

Furthermore, from the Trump side on where we sit now, he used the word "compromise" but what in negotiations has he indicated he's willing to compromise over? Not his $5.7 billion in funding. If he's firm on that, what's he willing to trade for his money? All the stories I've seen are that the Democrats have no guidance, no clue, because as usual the WH is incompetent and isn't providing any hints about what kind of 'compromise' Trump will accept. So far it's "Give me my money!" and that's it. So what exactly is the 'compromise' position Democrats are supposed to take except to give Trump what he wants, i.e. complete capitulation?

The actual compromise position is to reopen government and sit down and negotiate a deal without a shutdown crisis looming over the negotiations, or what Democrats proposed in their response to Trump last night.
 
Visbek said:
As noted, Thiessen isn't a liberal. He's a Republican and a conservative, who worked for Bush 43. If you actually read WaPo, you'd know they are generally left of center, but also publish right of center columnists and op-eds.

As a result, we also see today from WaPo....

Fact Check on Trump's speech - "The first misleading statement in President Trump’s Oval Office address Tuesday night came in the first sentence...."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-address-immigration/?utm_term=.20eec9bdc789

"Trump’s Oval Office address was a pure propaganda opportunity. Networks shouldn’t allow it next time."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...cfd62dbb0a8_story.html?utm_term=.e07916c874ad

"Trump used the Oval Office to try to create a border crisis"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ef28312c8b9_story.html?utm_term=.54d39ac4c3d9
Click to expand...

So which is it WAPO?
Crisis or no crisis?
Just 4 days ago with the headline "After years of Trump’s dire warnings, a ‘crisis’ has hit the border but generates little urgency" ...
"In 2015, the year President Trump launched his White House bid with a promise to build a wall on the Mexico border, illegal migration to the United States plunged 31 percent, falling near its lowest level in 50 years.
Security experts saw a success, but Trump looked at the border and saw something ominous: “rapists,” “criminals” and other predators lurking on the other side.
In 2017, Trump’s first year in office, he continued to insist on the urgent need for a border wall, even as illegal crossings dropped further.
With parts of the federal government shut down over what has morphed into the defining symbol of Trump’s presidency, administration officials are clamoring louder than ever. Only this time, they face a bona fide emergency on the border, and they’re struggling to make the case there’s truly a problem.
Record numbers of migrant families are streaming into the United States, overwhelming border agents and leaving holding cells dangerously overcrowded with children, many of whom are falling sick. Two Guatemalan children taken into U.S. custody died in December. ..."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.776a5e7132fa
​
 
bubbabgone said:
So which is it WAPO?
Crisis or no crisis?
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Oh, good grief.

The number of southern border apprehensions is down by 75% since the peak in 2000. Drugs aren't smuggled over fences, they are sneaked in via ports of entry. Undocumented immigrants commit fewer crimes than native-born Americans. So, the "crisis" that Trump is hyping is not real.

The real crises the authors are talking about are:
• The inability of our political system to address immigration
• The violence in nations like Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala which is driving families north
• Border enforcement that can't provide basic humane treatment, and ends up doing things like dumping asylum seekers on a bus depot in El Paso

It's not the most superbly written article I've ever seen, but... it really is not that hard to figure out.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Their own "fact check" admits that 1000 a day entered the US during fiscal year 2018....yet instead of what was rightly said "thousands" (it IS a thousand after all) they instead downplay it to say he should have said "hundreds".
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That's it? That's your complaint? Seriously?


On the very next one after that they admit that illegal immigration does depress wages and jobs but then try to spin it by saying "halting illegal immigration is not a panacea even for the problem of depressed wage rates for low-skilled jobs,”. Trump never said it was. So that is them putting forth a strawman.
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Try actually reading what he wrote.

Trump said that "all Americans are hurt by illegal immigration. It strains public resources and drives down jobs and wages."

What Rizzo points out is: It can cause some issues for some unskilled workers (especially minorities). But even for those workers, undocumented immigration is a small part of the problem. (Oh, and guess what? Not all Americans are unskilled workers.) Rizzo goes on to point out that we've known for years that immigration (with or without documents) is generally beneficial. It increases growth, immigrants commit fewer crimes, and overall reduces unemployment.

By the way, he refers to a 618 page report by the National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine. I have my doubts Trump even skimmed it. He's too busy watching Fox News, I'm sure.


I can go on with each one. But plain fact of the matter is that all that this guy did was, essentially, lie to their readers.
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:roll:

No, actually, it's that Trump constantly lies and manipulates facts. Rizzo is trying to cut through a bunch of the BS. Kinda his job.

Unsurprisingly, CNN dinged Trump on some of the same points
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/08/politics/fact-check-trump-immigration-speech/index.html

And NPR
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/08/683205814/fact-check-trumps-oval-office-pitch-for-a-border-wall

And Fox News (Shepard Smith)
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/424474-fox-newss-shep-smith-immediately-fact-check-trump-address



Trump had a limited amount of air time to do his speech. This guy has unlimited internet space to state what he wants to state.
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Yes, because a fact checker at WaPo has less power than the President. Are you for reals?

Trump has an entire staff at his disposal. He has no excuse for his constant habit of spreading lies.
 
Visbek said:
That's it? That's your complaint? Seriously?



Try actually reading what he wrote.

Trump said that "all Americans are hurt by illegal immigration. It strains public resources and drives down jobs and wages."

What Rizzo points out is: It can cause some issues for some unskilled workers (especially minorities). But even for those workers, undocumented immigration is a small part of the problem. (Oh, and guess what? Not all Americans are unskilled workers.) Rizzo goes on to point out that we've known for years that immigration (with or without documents) is generally beneficial. It increases growth, immigrants commit fewer crimes, and overall reduces unemployment.

By the way, he refers to a 618 page report by the National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine. I have my doubts Trump even skimmed it. He's too busy watching Fox News, I'm sure.



:roll:

No, actually, it's that Trump constantly lies and manipulates facts. Rizzo is trying to cut through a bunch of the BS. Kinda his job.

Unsurprisingly, CNN dinged Trump on some of the same points
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/08/politics/fact-check-trump-immigration-speech/index.html

And NPR
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/08/683205814/fact-check-trumps-oval-office-pitch-for-a-border-wall

And Fox News (Shepard Smith)
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/424474-fox-newss-shep-smith-immediately-fact-check-trump-address




Yes, because a fact checker at WaPo has less power than the President. Are you for reals?

Trump has an entire staff at his disposal. He has no excuse for his constant habit of spreading lies.
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And now you're spinning. Trying to make it appear as if its not as big a problem as it is and therefore we can just ignore the problem. Why do I even bother with such dishonesty?
 
I don't like these kinds of "scorecards". My hope is that enough Republicans fund impactful things such as the Treasury department so tax refunds can be issued. Let Trump and the Democrats fight over the less impactful parts of the government being unfunded.
 
Kal'Stang said:
And now you're spinning. Trying to make it appear as if its not as big a problem as it is and therefore we can just ignore the problem.
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Accusing him of "spinning" when you claim a fact checker has "unlimited internet space"? When you completely ignore the subsantive point about how the impacts of illegal immigration are nowhere near the way Trump presented them, choosing rather to deflect from Visbek's point with an attack on Visbek's actions? When you chalk up a fact-checkers fact-checking to "lies" but not Trump's actions in deliberately misrepresenting the facts with the intent that others believe them as truth?



Kal'Stang said:
Why do I even bother with such dishonesty?
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I'm sure a priest can take confession, if you're religious.
 
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dobieg said:
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,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/opinions-trump-won-the-night-schumer-and-pelosi-lost/ar-BBRZLKt


Well at least some of our liberal friends are being rational. Trump specifically lays out the cost and dangers of rampant illegal immigration while also extending compassion to those who come into our country illegally. Democratic leadership responds by throwing out insults and cheap political rhetoric while not once addressing a single issue.


We'll see in the coming days and weeks how the American public responds.
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You do realize that Mark Theissen is a conservative political commentator, who served as Donald Rumsfeld's speech writer? He is in no way a liberal, but the so called fake news Washington Post gives him a platform to share his thoughts. You know, fair and balanced?
 
Slyfox696 said:
Pretty certain that Republicans controlled the House, the Senate and the Presidency until just last week (for those keeping score at home, that means the shutdown happened before Dems controlled House).

Also, this:





The need Trump supporters have to blatantly lie is something I'll never understand.
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I'm pretty sure that the Democrats are ones who threw the monkey wrench into any compromise and who now refuse to offer any compromise or negotiations now after the President gave them everything they wanted in the 2019 budget. It is the Democrats who shut down the government and who are keeping it closed.
 
JMR said:
All of those 10 things are facts. Not one of them is a good thing. This is not a "severe critique" it is rather an article written to maintain credibility as a journalist on a major newspaper.
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I'll be sure to give your opinion every bit of attention it deserves. :2wave:
 
Lutherf said:
FFS. The OP was, the way I read it, talking about the fact that the WaPo is generally heavily biased against Trump in their reporting. I took his comment to be an indication that it was unusual to see such an opinion given space in such a one sided rag.

Y'know, you used to be more fun when you knew that your opinion or your interpretation of events wasn't the only valid one on the market.
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The "one sided rag" prints articles representing many views. It has a slightly left of center bias, with a HIGH level of factual reporting. There are many one sided rags on the market, but this is not one of them, even if Trump does not like their reports.
 
trixare4kids said:
I'll be sure to give your opinion every bit of attention it deserves. :2wave:
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No doubt that is what you will do. You have shown yourself to be incapable of much rational thought. Have a nice evening.
 
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