Washington Post "Trump won the night. Schumer and Pelosi lost."

[trixare4kids]

Did they take a no-compromise pledge?
https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

A 2010 article is supposed to convince me of what?
Btw, I voted Libertarian in 2008 so your insinuation that I would go along with obstructionists from any party is a moot point.

 

[SCrider]

A 2010 article is supposed to convince me of what?
Btw, I voted Libertarian in 2008 so your insinuation that I would go along with obstructionists from any party is a moot point.

Oh course you did

 

[tres borrachos]

So is he wrong with his assessment? No he is spot on so please go on complaining about him being a conservative. :lamo
There was no pounding of the table or any temper tantrum. Why are the democrats opposing common sense approach to help secure our southern border?
Because they will do anything to STOP president from securing areas our border with a physical barrier. Never mind that many democrats have voted for this in the past!

From post #1:

While Trump spoke calmly and rationally from behind the Resolute Desk, the Democratic leaders accused him of “pounding the table” and having a “temper tantrum.” While Trump told human stories, they complained about . They accused him of arguing that the women and children at the border were “a security threat” when he had just explained to the American people that they were victims, too. They charged him with using the “backdrop of the Oval Office to manufacture a crisis, stoke fear and divert attention from the turmoil in his administration.” They were partisan and petty, while Trump came across as reasonable and even compassionate.

To normal Americans watching in the heartland, and who are not steeped in Trump hatred, the president must have seemed like the adult in the room.

And, most important, Pelosi and Schumer failed to use the one word that millions of Americans were longing to hear — compromise. But Trump did. That is why the president won the night. Schumer and Pelosi appealed to their base, while Trump made an effective appeal to persuadable Americans.

I didn't make any comments about Thiessen's assessment. I commented on the ignorant claim from the OP that he's a liberal. He isn't.

 

[Slyfox696]

When you see the word "implication" that means the statement in question wasn't expressly written but, rather, was implied.

-edit-

I will give you props for the whole "they weren't dismissive because of 'x'. They were dismissive because of 'y'" argument. It's a classic!

It's not dismissive of the article, but rather the position put forth by the OP, which is a valid response given the factually inaccurate statement made by the OP.

This isn't hard to understand, it's basically forum debating 101.

 

[trixare4kids]

Oh course you did

I voted for Ron Paul in 2008.
Why should I care if an anonymous Internet name doesn't believe me?

 

[MrWonka]

Well, at least some of our liberal friends are being rational.

Marc Thiessen wrote this article. He is a conservative. I can assure you there is not a single solitary liberal or rational adult in the country that thought Trump was the smart one last night.

We'll see in the coming days and weeks how the American public responds.

Don't need to wait. The Democratic response actually had higher ratings than Trump's initial address. Sorry, but you're a boy is an idiot, and he's still incredibly unpopular. He is being rightfully blamed for this shutdown and the American people are sick of it.

 

[tres borrachos]

I'm really tired of these "he's a conservative therefore his opinion is irrelevant" implications. Neither of you even bother to take issue with what the guy said. It's "he's a conservative so we don't have to care". That's totally dismissive and, frankly, it's that exact attitude that put Trump in office and will keep him in office unless the "resistance" becomes a bit less self serving.

And I'm really tired of people putting words into my mouth that aren't there.

Now, if you can point out where in that post I dismissed Marc Thiessen's opinion, do it. I was directly commenting on the OP claiming he was a liberal, and implying this was Wapo's opinion, and also posting it in "Breaking News". The smart people know someone's opinion isn't breaking news.

You are really batting 1000 with the dishonest posts the last couple of days. This is yet another one.

 

[Lutherf]

Let's break your argument down.

....

Well, at least you respond with reasoned opinion. That's a step up from 95% of the slag we get around here.

I'm not asserting that it's a "single political party" that's out to get Trump. It's the political class in general. We have, in the past 60 years or so, stepped up the pace at which the profession of "politics" has grown. We have an entire economic sector dedicated to promoting, providing and developing dependence on the federal government. It's an organized assault against self-sufficiency for the purpose of instituting federal control over all social programs and, ultimately, dictating how the socioeconomic structure of the country will develop. It's about controlling the people because, as the adherents to this program believe, the people are incapable of "properly" controlling themselves.

Furthermore, my assertion is far from baseless. There is plenty of writing on social strategies such as Cloward-Piven and plenty of writing on the legal "need" for such a strategy couched in Critical Race Theory. The strategy isn't new and it isn't hidden. It has merely become part and parcel of the Democrat party and their cohorts in the establishment wing of the GOP.

As far as your opinion of the direction Trump is heading, we'll certainly disagree on all those points as, for the most part, his steps to reduce regulation on industry are every bit as likely to IMPROVE water and air quality and to IMPROVE the sustainability of our available resources as they are to negatively impact such things. Keep in mind that one of the more recent environmental disasters, Flint Michigan's water supply problems, was the result of political malfeasance, not industrial malice.

The wall isn't a fantasy. It isn't a panacea and isn't being promoted as such. It's a tool to be used in the task of border security and it is most definitely a reasonable tool to use in many sections of the border. As such, it's an investment in national security which, when combined with improvements to the immigration process as a whole, should SAVE us money...which can then be used to assist disabled veterans, etc.

The biggest factor in regulating Wall Street is consumer education. The markets will rise and fall but they can only collapse in ways that put the nation at risk when they are constantly propped up by governments more concerned with political outcomes than they are true economic results of their policies.

Your concerns about the middle east and "ethnic cleansing" lead me to believe that you may be one of those who believes that Israel should be eradicated from the face of the earth. I'll go no farther in that.

With regard to lies...we're talking about politics here, right? Honest Abe has been dead for a few years now.

 

[BWG]

Exactly! "Compromising" with this president just is not a part of the obstructionist Democrats' vocabulary. They don't want anything but to STOP TRUMP, and regain the power.
They are a disgrace, and their partisan,power hungry politicking is going to backfire, and seriously hurt their reelection chances come 2020. Mark my words...

Everyone knows Chuck Schumer previously voted for what Trump is asking for. Every word he utters about Trump over the border issue is a big fat lie.
People who go along with his noise are idiotic lemmings.

LOL!!!! yeah like we've never heard that before, but you're right in that it didn't help the republicants in the 2012 presidential election.

Here’s John Boehner, the likely speaker if Republicans take the House, offering his plans for Obama’s agenda: “We're going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.”

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell summed up his plan to National Journal: “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

 

[Lutherf]

And I'm really tired of people putting words into my mouth that aren't there.

Now, if you can point out where in that post I dismissed Marc Thiessen's opinion, do it. I was directly commenting on the OP claiming he was a liberal, and implying this was Wapo's opinion, and also posting it in "Breaking News". The smart people know someone's opinion isn't breaking news.

You are really batting 1000 with the dishonest posts the last couple of days. This is yet another one.

FFS. The OP was, the way I read it, talking about the fact that the WaPo is generally heavily biased against Trump in their reporting. I took his comment to be an indication that it was unusual to see such an opinion given space in such a one sided rag.

Y'know, you used to be more fun when you knew that your opinion or your interpretation of events wasn't the only valid one on the market.

 

[tres borrachos]

LOL!!!! yeah like we've never heard that before, but you're right in that it didn't help the republicants in the 2012 presidential election.

Thanks for the reminder about McConnell's words. I was a full out Republican when he said that, and I remember I flinched when I heard about it.

 

[tres borrachos]

FFS. The OP was, the way I read it, talking about the fact that the WaPo is generally heavily biased against Trump in their reporting. I took his comment to be an indication that it was unusual to see such an opinion given space in such a one sided rag.

Y'know, you used to be more fun when you knew that your opinion or your interpretation of events wasn't the only valid one on the market.

FFS, you should have read the OP more carefully and comprehended my post better. You didn't. That's on you.

You took his comment wrong. He clearly said Thiessen was a liberal. The people in this thread who were paying attention caught it as well - and corrected the OP on it too.

I don't care about Thiessen's opinion anymore than I care about Hannity's and Maddow's and Coulter's and Sharpton's opinions on the speech, either. I do care when people lie about facts. As you well know.

By the way, Wapo has lots of conservative opinion writers. Charles Krauthammer had a column in there for years. So as usual, you follow the sheep and Trump in the "Wapo is a left wing rag" crap. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that Wapo has and always has had conservative opinion writers.

 

[uptower]

It does seem ironic that Democrats who clamor for higher wages for middle and lower class workers support the very thing that keeps those wages low.


There's simply no rational way to justify their actions.

Nobody actually 'supports' illegal immigration. That is a false dichotomy. The dems just don't believe Trump's wall will be an effective solution.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,




,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/opinions-trump-won-the-night-schumer-and-pelosi-lost/ar-BBRZLKt


Well at least some of our liberal friends are being rational. Trump specifically lays out the cost and dangers of rampant illegal immigration while also extending compassion to those who come into our country illegally. Democratic leadership responds by throwing out insults and cheap political rhetoric while not once addressing a single issue.


We'll see in the coming days and weeks how the American public responds.

Marc Thiessen the "liberal".

Marc Alexander Thiessen (born January 13, 1967) is an American conservative author, columnist, and political commentator. He served as a speechwriter for United States President George W. Bush (2004–09) and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld (2001–06).

Thiessen's articles have appeared in the Los Angeles Times, National Review, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The Weekly Standard, USA Today and other publications. He has also appeared on Fox News, CNN, NPR, and other media outlets. His one book is a defense of the Torture Memos and "enhanced interrogation methods" used by the CIA under the George W. Bush administration.

[sarcasm]Yep, as a liberal, I sure do hope Trump brings back torture![/sarcasm]

 

[dobieg]

Thanks for the reminder about McConnell's words. I was a full out Republican when he said that, and I remember I flinched when I heard about it.

,,,,fascinating.

 

[bubbabgone]

Yes. Marc Thiessen is a conservative and pretty much a Trump supporter down the line but he made some good points.
And anyone who thinks Chuck & Nancy looked good up there and made a solid presentation is letting their TDS color their thinking way too much.

Today's fact-checking from the AP, the NYT, and the WAPO was not unexpected.
What they called false about Trump's speech was a stretch, and what they couldn't conceivably call false they said was misleading, inconclusive, or needed context ... to make it sound false.
The WAPO's was a little strange and overall not as in-your-face about Trump but I didn't see them do anything for Chuck & Nancy.

For Chuck & Nancy they didn't say they were wrong but that "it's one way to look at it (AP)", or that it needed context because Chuck & Nancy weren't critical enough.
As far as Trump “pounding the table” and having a “temper tantrum.” he must have done it privately because it wasn't in any of the videos we've seen ... including the meeting that Nancy tried to have the cameras removed from and no news outlet that I saw fact checked that one.

And so it goes.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You're free to offer a rebuttal if you want and I'm sure it will be a balanced piece.


You know, since you were such a staunch former conservative and you're Momma and Pappa were conservatives and you bled conservatism and whatever other horsesh** you want to blow out.

Trumpism isn't conservatism. In fact, it's an insult to actual conservatism.

 

[joko104]

It does seem ironic that Democrats who clamor for higher wages for middle and lower class workers support the very thing that keeps those wages low.


There's simply no rational way to justify their actions.

The Democratic Party became the enemy of blue collar workers quite some time ago. As Democratic Senator Hirono explained, Democratic politicians are so vastly smarter than regular people we just can't grasp their brilliance - such as why we must have endless waves of millions of low skill immigrant laborers to compete for jobs with blue collar worker Americans.

Still, you read the Democratic Party line reasoning on this forum, claiming anyone who doesn't get a college degree did it to themselves so they can starve for all they care. In their view, everyone should be in management and anyone who isn't is a stupid idiot and unworthy of being a Democrat. I agree that no blue collar worker is welcomed in the Democratic Party and should vote straight Republican in every election for every office.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The speech was apparently so "meh" that trump is trying to change the conversation away from the wall now. He just threw red meat to his base by threatening to withhold FEMA funds to California for fires that don't exist. That won't work (remember: no fires right now), so he'll just keep throwing out grenades until he finds one that successfully change the conversation.

And if anyone...ANYONE, ever goes through with a threat to withhold federal funds from California, I say that California should withhold funds from the federal government for the duration, not only as a return poke in the eye, but also to illustrate that such "acts of war" against a state carry consequences, BIG ones when you're talking about a state our size, and also to help make up the withheld funds. After all, if California does NEED those federal funds for things like fires, they'll have to make up for the missing federal funds out of its own money, and California should wisely deduct them from their federal contributions.

And if it continues apace, some even larger consequences could come about eventually.
Bring it on, bitches.

 

[dobieg]

Trumpism isn't conservatism. In fact, it's an insult to actual conservatism.

Thank God.


If it wasn't for Trump, the GOP could go to hell just as much as Democrats.

 

[uptower]

The Democratic Party became an enemy of blue collar workers quite some time ago.

Small edit for accuracy. There is one other enemy...

 

[Obscurity]

I'm not asserting that it's a "single political party" that's out to get Trump. It's the political class in general.

And none of this proves your assertion. You asserted that there was a unified conglomerate that is out to get Trump because he is an outsider. You and others here have not convinced me. The evidence is not there. There are plenty of folks who don't like Trump - Justly so - but that does not prove your theory.

Furthermore, my assertion is far from baseless. There is plenty of writing on social strategies such as Cloward-Piven and plenty of writing on the legal "need" for such a strategy couched in Critical Race Theory.

Cloward-Piven was never proven to work. Robert Weir asserted it that it never worked in the manner promised. Critical Race Theory has nothing to do with Trump, or his adversaries. CRT is something perhaps proposed and supported in a handful of liberal colleges on the coasts - the ones the right uses as a call to arms insisting all colleges are beds of liberal scum - something not supported by facts.

As far as your opinion of the direction Trump is heading, we'll certainly disagree on all those points as, for the most part, his steps to reduce regulation on industry are every bit as likely to IMPROVE water and air quality and to IMPROVE the sustainability of our available resources as they are to negatively impact such things. Keep in mind that one of the more recent environmental disasters, Flint Michigan's water supply problems, was the result of political malfeasance, not industrial malice.

I disagree. We're seeing the opposite. Water sources in WV are not cleaner now that the Trump admin got rid of protections. I'm not claiming malice; I am claiming cheapness.

Back to the point about deregulation "helping:"

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/03/how-trump-is-changing-science-environment/

Your assertion here about deregulation helping is a masturbatory fantasy that assumes facts never presented in evidence. There is absolutely no evidence that Trump's deregulation helps anyone BUT business, and it certainly does not help the environment.

The wall isn't a fantasy. It isn't a panacea and isn't being promoted as such. It's a tool to be used in the task of border security and it is most definitely a reasonable tool to use in many sections of the border. As such, it's an investment in national security which, when combined with improvements to the immigration process as a whole, should SAVE us money...

You're right. It's not a fantasy. It's a dishonest delusion being sold on lies. You have not given me evidence the wall will work. I am pro deportation. My opinion of a solution would be to jail employers and deport illegals, immediately. If you hire an illegal you go to jail - period. Most folks come here for a better life. take away the jobs and they have no incentive to come here. Give me the studies a wall would work. Let's see the claim be proven.

The biggest factor in regulating Wall Street is consumer education. The markets will rise and fall but they can only collapse in ways that put the nation at risk when they are constantly propped up by governments more concerned with political outcomes than they are true economic results of their policies.

When you gut education, like the republicans have routinely done on a local, state and federal level, it's hard to educate consumers. Moreover, we disagree here. Education will not solve malfeasance, which is rife in the market. Especially with Dunce getting rid of requirements that investment brokers act in good faith for their investors. The market and those that work in it tend to be out for themselves - hence why I disagree with deregulating it. Some really ****ty things were done to consumers by bankers, and I for one do not think the best way to handle it is to Gut education and then hamstring consumers by installing corporatist judges that rule "no, you can't use class actions here anymore" or "No, binding arbitration is not an issue".

Your concerns about the middle east and "ethnic cleansing"

I don't think Israel ought to be eradicated. I believe all the evidence supports my claim that the sole reason we're so invested in the middle east is the cancerous infection of evangelicals in both parties clinging to an armageddon fantasy. In my opinion, not one single red cent should go to any foreign country until every american is cared for - period.

With regard to lies...we're talking about politics here, right? Honest Abe has been dead for a few years now.

And? The problem here isn't just the lies, it's the hypocrisy. I blasted Obama for 8 years over his lies about Obamacare, and his lies about Drone Strikes.

I'll do the same to Trump.

 

[dobieg]

The Democratic Party became the enemy of blue collar workers quite some time ago.

I think they do a good job of representing the Island of misfit toys rather well though it was nice when they actually gave a sh** about the working men and women in this country.

 

[tres borrachos]

Yes. Marc Thiessen is a conservative and pretty much a Trump supporter down the line but he made some good points.
And anyone who thinks Chuck & Nancy looked good up there and made a solid presentation is letting their TDS color their thinking way too much.

Today's fact-checking from the AP, the NYT, and the WAPO was not unexpected.
What they called false about Trump's speech was a stretch, and what they couldn't conceivably call false they said was misleading, inconclusive, or needed context ... to make it sound false.
The WAPO's was a little strange and overall not as in-your-face about Trump but I didn't see them do anything for Chuck & Nancy.

For Chuck & Nancy they didn't say they were wrong but that "it's one way to look at it (AP)", or that it needed context because Chuck & Nancy weren't critical enough.
As far as Trump “pounding the table” and having a “temper tantrum.” he must have done it privately because it wasn't in any of the videos we've seen ... including the meeting that Nancy tried to have the cameras removed from and no news outlet that I saw fact checked that one.

And so it goes.

Maybe Nancy was referring to the meeting with Trump the other day when he was cursing at her.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-profanity-meeting-with-democrats-pelosi-government-shutdown-2019-1

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Uh huh. Like you liberals and the media throw out Sheppard Smith pieces and act like that's Fox news's opinion.

Nice dodge.



I only ever recall liberals making the specific point that Shep Smith STANDS OUT from the rest of the Fox crowd.
On a personal level, I sincerely hope Shep Smith is enjoying the paycheck for being the token Fox liberal.

The renowned TV news anchor, Smith has an estimated net worth of $25 million dollars and a yearly salary of about $10 million dollars. His salary and net worth are second only to Sean Hannity.