Simon W. Moon said:And there're ample reasons for this besides the general bitchslapping that all politicians need to remind them that office-holders are public servants.
Saboteur said:Okay easyt65 and Trajan,
What about the violence President Bush incited when he said "Bring it on"?
'All those people'? please specify/clarify? You mean like the Fem Army soldier who commited the acts of humiliation, 'conduct un-becoming? Not torture.Saboteur said:What about the fact that there was/is torture and the people who commited it were tried and convicted for it?
Do you mean we have grounded all airline traffic, closed all the borders, stopped Iran from developing nukes? How have we destroyed their ability to reach our soil? they have the same avenues they had prior to 9-11, just a little tighter security to have to find a way to by-pass. If all those guys committing suicide bombings etc in Iraq today were not focused on Iraq, they would be hitting Israel more frequently and focussing on hitting here again!Saboteur said:What about the fact that we have destroyed the terrorists' ability to reach our soil again? I thought you supported this war.
Bin Laden and Al Qaeda used to give the royal familya fit about our HQ being there, so they thought if they would appease them by asking us to leave that would stop bin laden's/Al Qaeda's attacks. Once we left. the clue-light came on and the Royal Family saw that what Bin Laden really wants is to over-throw the Royal Family! They want our help, but they sometimes, we believe, ride both side of the fence.Saboteur said:What about Saudi Arabia harboring terrorists yet they remain our allie?
Let's kill that myth once and for all.Saboteur said:What about exposing Valeri Plame?
And there're ample reasons for this besides the general bitchslapping that all politicians need to remind them that office-holders are public servants.
easyt65 said:Never-the-less, 2 wrongs don't make a right!
Last I checked, one don't have to hold an office to be a politician.Captain America said:Dang it. How come nobody will tell me just what office Gore is currently holding.
That's all I'm saying.Captain America said:But hey, if we get to bit**slap Gore, who cares? Wouldn't THAT be fun?
Captain America said:That's cool. So, we have established that Gore is NOT an office holder after all. But neither is he a private citizen because politicians aren't allowed to voice their delusional opinions?
Now were getting somewhere. Thanks.:doh
Even though it wasn't in official government capacity, it can't be denied that Gore was looked at by those in attendance as a representative of this country and that when he speaks, he's speaking for a certain percentage of the country...many would feel the same way if Oprah or George Clooney said something in an international forum...Captain America said:Dang it. How come nobody will tell me just what office Gore is currently holding. I'm starting to get a complex here.
But hey, if we get to bit**slap Gore, who cares? Wouldn't THAT be fun?
cnredd said:Even though it wasn't in official government capacity, it can't be denied that Gore was looked at by those in attendance as a representative of this country and that when he speaks, he's speaking for a certain percentage of the country...many would feel the same way if Oprah or George Clooney said something in an international forum...
There are instances on this very forum where some on the Left has used other Gore comments...as a private citizen...to take shots at the Administration...For them that's OK...
But when he goes overseas and talks, all of a sudden they say, "Hey!...he's JUST a private citizen!...What does it matter?"...
Another fine example of "Party 1st...America 2nd(and possibly 574th")...:roll:
I'm not aware of him holding a public office, but that certainly don't mean he don't.Captain America said:So, we have established that Gore is NOT an office holder after all.
Sure they are. I encourage it. It helps the electorate choose who we'd like to have screw us. Politicians just need to be bitchslapped from time to time. [Any present company excluded of course.]Captain America said:But neither is he a private citizen because politicians aren't allowed to voice their delusional opinions?
easyt65 said:Here we go herding cats again...
There has been NO TORTURE, and no prisons should be shut down.
The torture the libs like to bring up have been some acts of humiliation. While totally inappropriate, they fall short of the definition of torture and definitely falls WAY short of what Hussein was doing - REAL torture - to his own people! Loud music and sleep deprivation has also been cited by Libs. (My son was afraid to find out that his loud music at all hours counts as torture!)
(D) Dick Durbin, who had NEVER been to Quantanamo, read off what he thought was a classified document (he was intentionally breaking the law, or thought he was and was OK with it) before congress, accusing our soldiers of 'torture' the letter described when he called our soldiers nazis and suicidal equivalents. To his embarrassment, he later found out that the letter was not only NOT classified but was all LIES! Still, he refused to apologize to our troops!
As far as giving enemy combatants fair trials - we are in a war. Enemy combatants captured on the field of battle do not get American rights! Bush was right that these guys should be tried by military tribunals! As far as these poor detainees, I would remind you of an article (No, I don't have a link to it right now) that told of a detainee believed to be an Al Qaeda leader, but he was released. He was killed 2 weeks later in Afghanistan as a member/leader of a group of Al Qaeda who tried to ambush and kill American troops there - 2 weeks released, and he is already back in Afghanistan trying to kill more troops!
We are at war against people who want to kill you because YOU BREATHE! They would gladly behead you live on Al Jazeera TV, as they have done to other Americans, and YOU are worried about reading them 'their' Miranda rights and about their all getting prayer rugs!?:shock:
And this again gives Gore the right to incite terror against our country and troops for cash HOW?
cnredd said:It's NOT giving aid and comfort...It's along the same lines of Cindy Sheehan...
It's someone who doesn't understand the consequences of their comments, but the comments themselves aren't illigal...
Should Gore be vilified, ridiculed, and possibly bitch-slapped?...Yes...
But should he be arrested?...Absolutely not...
Saboteur said:Well here's what the world thinks.... I'm so glad there are so many people who don't ever leave the comfort of their culdusac.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060216/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/un_guantanamo_12;_ylt=Am6iOrEbpxGjGUI1urRRveE3NiUi;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
Perhaps Al was just saying what they already knew
From a previous post...Binary_Digit said:Gore said nothing that hasn't already been said by other (actual) U.S. politicians. If his speech even remotely incites violence over there, it's because those people haven't been listening to our politicians over the last 4 years (yeah right). Everything he said has already been plastered all over the news. The use of torture has been confirmed by the administration. (waterboarding, Bybee memo, anti-McCain's bill, even Hellen Keller could see this)
Since 13 of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, why don't you ask your beloved President Bush why we're in Iraq instead of Saudi Arabia? Why was Saudi Arabia left off the axis of evil list? "We will make no distinction between terrorists and countries that harbor them" remember?
cnredd said:The Saudi Arabian problem has been addressed before...here's the lowdown...
There are 1.2 billion Muslims worldwide...Presently, the issue is with extreme fundamentalists and their followers who are from the Middle East...that is a huge number, but small compared to the whole Islamic Ummah(If there are 100 million people who are either terrorists or supporters of terrorists, that is only equal to about 8.3%)...
Now one thing the fundamental mullahs and clerics try to twist is the reasons America is against them...namely, they pull out the "religion" card much like Jesse Jackson does with race...They shout from the highest mountain that the US is attacking them because of their religion...Most Muslims in the world do not agree with this...and they would be correct...
But let me ask you...Do you think that would change if US troops were to attack these fundamentalists in Saudi Arabian places like Mecca and Media?...the two holiest cities in Islam?...
Damn right it would...The mullahs would yell, "See? I told you they're coming because of religion...they're even trying to take away our holy land!"...(Of course they'd be yelling it in Arabic)...
Obviously, it's wouldn't be our intention, but attacking Saudi Arabia would inspire all of Islam against the US...and personally, I don't think it's a good time to pi$$ 1.2 billion people off...
galenrox said:Um, preparing to admit that you know nothing of the democrats?
galenrox said:And all of those people are still led by Gore? Right, that makes sense, that's why Gore was nominated in 2004 also, right?
lol
Saying Gore leads the democrats is like saying that Bob Dole or the first George Bush still ran the republicans in 2000. It's ridiculous.
And you can deny it all that you want, but you and I both know that the validity of the 2000 election is questionable at best.
If Gore was their leader, how come he holds no office or formal position within the party?
Thanks Cnredd, I'd say that's a pretty good analysys. In fact, that's the same argument I would make as to why we shouldn't torture them. But that logic seems to fall on deaf right-wing ears when it comes to torture...I wonder why?cnredd said:The Saudi Arabian problem has been addressed before...here's the lowdown...
There are 1.2 billion Muslims worldwide...Presently, the issue is with extreme fundamentalists and their followers who are from the Middle East...that is a huge number, but small compared to the whole Islamic Ummah(If there are 100 million people who are either terrorists or supporters of terrorists, that is only equal to about 8.3%)...
Now one thing the fundamental mullahs and clerics try to twist is the reasons America is against them...namely, they pull out the "religion" card much like Jesse Jackson does with race...They shout from the highest mountain that the US is attacking them because of their religion...Most Muslims in the world do not agree with this...and they would be correct...
But let me ask you...Do you think that would change if US troops were to attack these fundamentalists in Saudi Arabian places like Mecca and Media?...the two holiest cities in Islam?...
Damn right it would...The mullahs would yell, "See? I told you they're coming because of religion...they're even trying to take away our holy land!"...(Of course they'd be yelling it in Arabic)...
Obviously, it's wouldn't be our intention, but attacking Saudi Arabia would inspire all of Islam against the US...and personally, I don't think it's a good time to pi$$ 1.2 billion people off...:wink:
Simple...because, as policy, we DON'T torture...Binary_Digit said:Thanks Cnredd, I'd say that's a pretty good analysys. In fact, that's the same argument I would make as to why we shouldn't torture them. But that logic seems to fall on deaf right-wing ears when it comes to torture...I wonder why?
That's the final word...But accusations(look in the mirror)...are still thrown out as if it's the status quo...The Final Report of the Independent Panel to Review DoD Detention Operations did specifically absolve senior U.S. military and political leadership from direct culpability
Trajan Octavian Titus said:Last Sunday, former Vice President Al Gore spoke before the Jiddah Economic Forum. He told the mostly Saudi audience that the United States had committed "terrible atrocities" against Arabs after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. He stated that Arabs had been "indiscriminately rounded up" and detained in "unforgivable conditions." He criticized America's new immigration policy, which more carefully scrutinizes Saudi visas, explaining, "The thoughtless way in which visas are now handled, that is a mistake." Finally, he concluded, "There have been terrible abuses, and it's wrong. … I want you to know that it does not represent the desires or wishes or feelings of the majority of the citizens of my country."
Alastor said:None of what All Gore said isn't true.
galenrox said:Did you talk to them? Did you read interviews with enough of them so that you could possibly have the slightest amount of credibility when you say this? Do you have anything other than "They seem like they would"? Is there ANY reason we should take what you say seriously?
If you want to say things about the democrats, fine, I'm all about some democrat bashing, but for god's sake dude, you're just pulling **** out of your *** and calling it gold.
galenrox said:Dude, you and I both know that your argument doesn't cut the mustard. You know full well what it takes to make a sound argument, and you're nowhere close.
Let's just analyze your bases, conclusions, and evidence here.
Conclusion: Democrats support Gore
Bases: I watch C-SPAN religiously, go to the DU occassionally, and keep tabs on the Democrats
Evidence: None
Conclusion: The democrats message is "Wrong war, wrong place, wrong time, Bush Lied, troops died, the Republicans are slave owners, the troops are terrorists, Bush is a tyrant who spies on innocent Americans, America is imperialist, et al.
Base: It's obvious, and you should know it
Evidence: None
Do you see now why it's impossible for me to take your assessments even the slightest bit seriously?
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