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[W:5]This is a reason to support 'Boycott, Divest Israel': homes bulldozed for illegal settlements

Craig234

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Craig234

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re: [W:5]This is a reason to support 'Boycott, Divest Israel': homes bulldozed for illegal settlements

Sadly, both Kamala Harris and trump are very pro-Netenyahu and have no use for Palestenians. I haven't looked into Biden on this.
 

Craig234

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re: [W:5]This is a reason to support 'Boycott, Divest Israel': homes bulldozed for illegal settlements

I just learned there is a Middle East forum. If this belongs there, a mod can move it. If it's ok here with its relevance to the current presidential candidates, that's fine.
 

swing_voter

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re: [W:5]This is a reason to support 'Boycott, Divest Israel': homes bulldozed for illegal settlements

If Europe hadn't chased millions of European Jews out of Europe and into Palestine, we never would've had an Israel.
 

Redress

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re: [W:5]This is a reason to support 'Boycott, Divest Israel': homes bulldozed for illegal settlements

Moderator's Warning:
Thread moved. Martial Law is in effect from here on out.
 

TypicalRussian

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Apocalypse

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Israel for decades has aggressively been making life miserable for Palestinians, and pushing to take over more and more of their land. One of the ways is bulldozing their homes, sometimes to build illegal settlements for Israeli settlers. They are doing war crimes.

Where will we live? ; Palestinian girl cries as Israel razes her home+Video - Yemen Press


Israel has been defending itself against Palestinian aggressors and will continue to do so.
There were no war crimes committed here.
 

Craig234

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Israel has been defending itself against Palestinian aggressors and will continue to do so.

There were no war crimes committed here.

These were not "Palestinian aggressors". Israel was not "defending itself".

Post after your home is bulldozed about justified it was.
 

Chagos

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Here's a suggestion:

1) get a permit before you build

2) don't be so dumb to think that just because everybody else around you is building without it, you'll get away with it.

Illegal constructions tend get torn down, not just in Israel.
 

Apocalypse

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These were not "Palestinian aggressors". Israel was not "defending itself".

Post after your home is bulldozed about justified it was.

I was replying to what you said in the OP.
Build without a permit and your house is bulldozed anywhere.
 

Craig234

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Build without a permit and your house is bulldozed anywhere.

Sounds so reasonable, like he was the one at fault, and Israel was just enforcing reasonable laws. Except that is not the case. The article says:

The three-story home, built in 2001, was initially never thought by the owner to be under threat as most Palestinian homes built in al-Quds are constructed without permit. The reason for this is that Israeli authorities would make it virtually impossible for Palestinians living in the city to obtain any permits at all even after paying for them. So Palestinians are forced to either live on the streets, flee the country or build without a permit.

Ibrahim stated that he paid a lawyer, Sami al-Sheikh between $50,000 and $60,000 in order to appeal the Israeli decision to recognize his home as illegal. He stated that the lawyer attempted four times to have the decision appealed, all of which were instantly rejected.

Ibrahim then said, “I was shocked when they informed me yesterday that my home had to be demolished within one day…I attempted to plead with them for a few weeks, but they rejected my attempts.”

In the end, Ibrahim was handed over another decision to pay for bulldozers, which he was to organize himself, to destroy his home or to allow Israeli regime bulldozers to do it by force.

He decided to do it himself as he was informed that if the Israeli authorities were to destroy his home, he would have to pay them up to NIS 250,000 ($73,000).

His home has now been reduced to rubble and his children were left crying over the rubble. This is especially hard for his children to accept, having spent their whole lives growing up in the former residence.

So, they give people no option to GET a permit, then pretend it's reasonable to have to have one, leading to most houses not having one. Then they make him pay for the bulldozing of his own home within a day... yes, these are war crimes.
 

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Sounds so reasonable, like he was the one at fault, and Israel was just enforcing reasonable laws. Except that is not the case. The article says:



So, they give people no option to GET a permit, then pretend it's reasonable to have to have one, leading to most houses not having one. Then they make him pay for the bulldozing of his own home within a day... yes, these are war crimes.


The fact that many build without permit does not mean it's impossible to get one.
It's sad for him and his family, but it's the law.

Go ahead and try building a house in your city without a permit. See what they do about it and what "war crimes" they commit.
 

Craig234

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The fact that many build without permit does not mean it's impossible to get one.

The article states that it's nearly impossible for most to get one, which is WHY they build without one, and shows how hard he tried to deal with the problem. If you have any evidence it's easy to get one and the article is wrong, post that instead of bad logic.

Go ahead and try building a house in your city without a permit. See what they do about it and what "war crimes" they commit.

False analogy. When you can't get a permit, then you can talk, and in the US, they don't order you to pay to bulldoze your own house within a day.
 

snakestretcher

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Israel has been defending itself against Palestinian aggressors and will continue to do so.
There were no war crimes committed here.

No? Using civilians, for example, as human shields is a war crime as defined in the Geneva Conventions and International Law. Israel has been guilty of this for decades.

Israel: Soldiers’ Punishment for Using Boy as ‘Human Shield’ Inadequate | Human Rights Watch

Customary IHL - Rule 97. Human Shields

War crime - Wikipedia Note; "destroying civilian property" is included as a war crime.

"If I were an Arab leader I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal, we have taken their country. They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" David Ben Gurion, founder of modern Israel.

Americans hear but one side of the conflict; that of Israel, and accept all and any of AIPAC and US pro-Israeli propaganda as incontestable truth.
 
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TypicalRussian

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Israel has been defending itself against Palestinian aggressors and will continue to do so.
There were no war crimes committed here.

settlement build is not self defense- it is illegal per UN law

im interested if you think state sponsored peace is achievable, i say state as the uneanisness between Jews and Muslims will go on for longer
 

Evilroddy

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Here's a suggestion:

1) get a permit before you build

2) don't be so dumb to think that just because everybody else around you is building without it, you'll get away with it.

Illegal constructions tend get torn down, not just in Israel.

Chagos:

In 2015 Palestinians made up about 60% of the population of East Jerusalem but Palestinian neighbourhoods only received about 7% of the building permits issued by Israeli authorities.

The legal obstacles and legal costs faced by Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank to get legal building permits are prohibitive barriers which are not faced by Jewish residents and settlers. The game is fixed in order to stop Palestinians from building new homes legally. In that climate is it any wonder that Palestinians refuse to participate in such a fixed game played on an unlevelled playing field? Supporting documents below.

One of the cornerstones of the Rule of Law is that all laws be applied equally and universally to all subject to them. This is not the case in either the State of Israel or in the Occupied Territories of East Jerusalem or the West Bank. Therefore the permit system is a fraudulent and illegal process and Palestinians have every right to ignore it as it is outside the Rule of Law. The State of Israel in this regard (and many others) is acting not like a lawful state but rather like a coercive criminal syndicate. This is a type of gentrified and slow-motion clearing of land of one ethnic population in favour of another. There is a name for that kind of process but forum rules prevent me from using that name. So like the fictional Francis Urquart, all I'll say here is, "I couldn't possibly comment.".

Only 7% of Jerusalem building permits go to Palestinian neighborhoods - Israel News - Haaretz.com

Denied permits, Palestinians raze own homes in Jerusalem | Arab News

https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefw...8760D49D5709485257456005F0D4E-Full_Report.pdf

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
 
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Fledermaus

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No? Using civilians, for example, as human shields is a war crime as defined in the Geneva Conventions and International Law. Israel has been guilty of this for decades.

Israel: Soldiers’ Punishment for Using Boy as ‘Human Shield’ Inadequate | Human Rights Watch

Customary IHL - Rule 97. Human Shields

War crime - Wikipedia Note; "destroying civilian property" is included as a war crime.

"If I were an Arab leader I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal, we have taken their country. They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" David Ben Gurion, founder of modern Israel.

Americans hear but one side of the conflict; that of Israel, and accept all and any of AIPAC and US pro-Israeli propaganda as incontestable truth.

Is it a war crime if I build an illegal structure and it is removed?
 

oneworld2

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Israel for decades has aggressively been making life miserable for Palestinians, and pushing to take over more and more of their land. One of the ways is bulldozing their homes, sometimes to build illegal settlements for Israeli settlers. They are doing war crimes.

Where will we live? ; Palestinian girl cries as Israel razes her home+Video - Yemen Press


I think the tactic of boycot and divestment is a legitimate and more preferable way to put pressure on Israel to desist from its poor treatment of the Palestinians BUT the movement needs, imo , to fall in line with the international consensus and formally state support for a two state solution based on the 1967 lines.
 

oneworld2

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The fact that many build without permit does not mean it's impossible to get one.
It's sad for him and his family, but it's the law.

Go ahead and try building a house in your city without a permit. See what they do about it and what "war crimes" they commit.


The truth is, and has already be shown here by Evilroddy, that illegal occupiers and settlers are in no legal/moral position to deny the people they are illegally occupying the right to build on their own land.

You are choosing to ignore the fact that there is an illegal annexation attempt being played out and that is hugely relevant to the subject of building permits or the refusal of them here.
 

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The truth is, and has already be shown here by Evilroddy, that illegal occupiers and settlers are in no legal/moral position to deny the people they are illegally occupying the right to build on their own land.

You are choosing to ignore the fact that there is an illegal annexation attempt being played out and that is hugely relevant to the subject of building permits or the refusal of them here.

You said it's war.

Then Israel is not "illegally occupying" the land.
 

oneworld2

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You said it's war.

Then Israel is not "illegally occupying" the land.


It is more of a conflict than a war. A war sometimes gives the impression of two more evenly matched adversaries ,imo, which is evidently not the case.

The thing is with occupations is that they are supposed to be temporary and have no characteristics of an annexation attempt by the occupying power. That too surely doesn't apply here too seeing as the illegal settlements and stated attempts at annexation of the territories is well documented.

Do you think that a state that occupies another people/territory has the right to decide who can build a house there or not in that area with the added insult of granting building permission to its own citizens that reside there in contravention of international law? Seriously ?
 

Fledermaus

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It is more of a conflict than a war. A war sometimes gives the impression of two more evenly matched adversaries ,imo, which is evidently not the case.

The thing is with occupations is that they are supposed to be temporary and have no characteristics of an annexation attempt by the occupying power. That too surely doesn't apply here too seeing as the illegal settlements and stated attempts at annexation of the territories is well documented.

Do you think that a state that occupies another people/territory has the right to decide who can build a house there or not in that area with the added insult of granting building permission to its own citizens that reside there in contravention of international law? Seriously ?

More crawfishing....

It was you that insisted on calling it a war so you could excuse Hamas terror attacks as "war crimes".

Occupation takes as long as it takes. It certainly doesn't cease during war.
 

oneworld2

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More crawfishing....

It was you that insisted on calling it a war so you could excuse Hamas terror attacks as "war crimes".

Occupation takes as long as it takes. It certainly doesn't cease during war.


There's no crawfishing just a more accurate assessment imo but I am still okay with the crimes committed by both sides being deemed war crimes.

You missed out the stuff about illegal settlers, settlements and annexations which is highly relevant to what I wrote and the context things should be viewed with
 
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