[W:5]This is a reason to support 'Boycott, Divest Israel': homes bulldozed for illegal settlements

[Phys251]

re: [W:5]This is a reason to support 'Boycott, Divest Israel': homes bulldozed for illegal settlements

If Europe hadn't chased millions of European Jews out of Europe and into Palestine, we never would've had an Israel.

Hindsight is 20/20. The situation now is with Israel destroying Palestinian civilians' homes.

 

[oneworld2]

That's not an argument.

Yes it is and one you are obviously struggling to counter so you have decided to compose posts that don't really offer anything up for debate. I can understand how difficult it must be when the evidence is stacked against your opinions.

Where is the evidence? You simply continue to point out that there is a disparity between Jews and Arabs in having their building permits granted. Is that your entire point?

That is the point and it has been supported by all of the evidence provided along with the fact that that disparity is based on a long and concerted attempt by the state of Israel to change the demographics of an occupied territory so as to seek it's annexation. All illegal under international law. It's just that simple.

 

[Apocalypse]

Yes it is and one you are obviously struggling to counter so you have decided to compose posts that don't really offer anything up for debate. I can understand how difficult it must be when the evidence is stacked against your opinions.

Repeatedly saying "anyone who X can see that Y" is not an argument.

That is the point and it has been supported by all of the evidence provided along with the fact that that disparity is based on a long and concerted attempt by the state of Israel to change the demographics of an occupied territory so as to seek it's annexation. All illegal under international law. It's just that simple.

You need to decide what is the point. Is it the disparity itself, or your claims for what caused them and their reason for exisitng?
If it's the former, that's quite anti-climatic. If it's the latter, that's not backed by anything.

 

[oneworld2]

Repeatedly saying "anyone who X can see that Y" is not an argument.

That doesn't seem coherent to me

You need to decide what is the point. Is it the disparity itself, or your claims for what caused them and their reason for exisitng?
If it's the former, that's quite anti-climatic. If it's the latter, that's not backed by anything.

The disparity has never been in question as the evidence for it is overwhelming. You conceded this point long ago and that concession was acknowledged so why you have reintroduced it is a mystery

The point about it being based on the demographic makup of the areas under question is likewise supported by overwhelming evidence .

I think the older Israeli leaderships where sometimes a lot more candid ( and a lot more sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians for that matter ) about such things so I will quote one of them speaking about the problem Israel has always faced, how to acquire the land but rid itself of the residents

Moshe Dayan speaking about what the solution to the above question is/was..............

Moshe Dayan............. " We have no solution.......You ( Palestinians) shall continue to live like dogs and whoever wishes may leave, and we will see where this process leads."

Prior to the state of Israel the leadership of the Zionist movement considered " transfer " ( transfer of Palestinians/Arabs out of the territory ) as the best option.

During the wars Israel has taken every opportunity to effect the above. Around 700,000 first round and 2-300,000 second time.

All of the settlers are illegal as are all of the settlements. A process of changing the demographic make up so as to annexe the land it has no title to under the law.

The lop sided planning permission is just more of the same.

How many Israelis get their houses demolished for violence against Palestinians and vice versa ?

The problem is and always has been, how to extract the land and add it to the state of Israel WITHOUT being lumbered with large numbers of Palestinians. The above is just a short bullet point of how that has played out since the Zionist movement decided on Palestine.

You can deny it if you want to but the evidence is overwhelming

 

[oneworld2]

Here's another one from good old Moshe that further underscores the " process " to change the demographic makeup of the occupied territories so as to help facilitate demographic change that rids the land of its Arab residents

"The proposed policy [of raising the level of public service in the occupied territories] may clash with our intention to encourage emigration from both [Gaza] Strip and Judea and Samaria. Anyone who has practical ideas or proposal to encourage emigration-let him speak up. No idea or proposal is to be dismissed out of hand.”

 

[Apocalypse]

That doesn't seem coherent to me




The disparity has never been in question as the evidence for it is overwhelming. You conceded this point long ago and that concession was acknowledged so why you have reintroduced it is a mystery

The point about it being based on the demographic makup of the areas under question is likewise supported by overwhelming evidence .

I think the older Israeli leaderships where sometimes a lot more candid ( and a lot more sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians for that matter ) about such things so I will quote one of them speaking about the problem Israel has always faced, how to acquire the land but rid itself of the residents

Moshe Dayan speaking about what the solution to the above question is/was..............

Moshe Dayan............. " We have no solution.......You ( Palestinians) shall continue to live like dogs and whoever wishes may leave, and we will see where this process leads."

Prior to the state of Israel the leadership of the Zionist movement considered " transfer " ( transfer of Palestinians/Arabs out of the territory ) as the best option.

During the wars Israel has taken every opportunity to effect the above. Around 700,000 first round and 2-300,000 second time.

All of the settlers are illegal as are all of the settlements. A process of changing the demographic make up so as to annexe the land it has no title to under the law.

The lop sided planning permission is just more of the same.

How many Israelis get their houses demolished for violence against Palestinians and vice versa ?

The problem is and always has been, how to extract the land and add it to the state of Israel WITHOUT being lumbered with large numbers of Palestinians. The above is just a short bullet point of how that has played out since the Zionist movement decided on Palestine.

You can deny it if you want to but the evidence is overwhelming

Deny what? You haven't made a single argument to deny here.
Quotations from past leaders taken out of context have nothing to do with present time or with any current Israeli policy, this too is not an argument.

 

[oneworld2]

Deny what? You haven't made a single argument to deny here.
Quotations from past leaders taken out of context have nothing to do with present time or with any current Israeli policy, this too is not an argument.

The problem has always been how the Zionist movement could acquire the land without also being stuck with the Arab residents that lived there. This question was contemplated before the state was even created and that line of thought can be seen from that time right into the present day. The lop sided " planning permission " that nobody, including yourself, can dispute is just another example of how this process has carried on.

The aim is setting policies to change the demographic composition of the land so as to benefit the greater Israel project and that's exactly what the evidence supports. Your posts just go around in circles with weak allegations and zero evidence to back any opinions expressed in them.

Occupiers have no legal right to allow or deny planning permission in territories they occupy accept for very limited security considerations. They are not allowed to transfer part of their population into said occupied territory , let alone think they have the right to grant them planning permission there.

These are pretty straight forward positions that your posts have completely avoided even mentioning. Therefore any " denials " are to be found in your own posts.

 

[Apocalypse]

The aim is setting policies to change the demographic composition of the land so as to benefit the greater Israel project and that's exactly what the evidence supports. Your posts just go around in circles with weak allegations and zero evidence to back any opinions expressed in them.

That's just your opinion. There was no logical basis presented to back it in any of the posts made so far.

 

[oneworld2]

That's just your opinion. There was no logical basis presented to back it in any of the posts made so far.

Everyone of your posts has said nothing. Has challenged nothing. Has countered nothing. Has provided no evidence to support your own position and is just, basically, it's just your opinion whilst ignoring the evidence that supports my opinion. The facts are that what I quoted Dayan as saying was the " process " has been supported by both the policies and the results.

People need only look at the early Zionist/pre state conversations to know that the mission is and always has been, how to acquite the land without being lumbered with the people. That's what the evidence supports, that's what the policies have delivered and that's why you haven't seriously challenged any of it in your posts

 

[Apocalypse]

Everyone of your posts has said nothing. Has challenged nothing. Has countered nothing. Has provided no evidence to support your own position and is just, basically, it's just your opinion whilst ignoring the evidence that supports my opinion. The facts are that what I quoted Dayan as saying was the " process " has been supported by both the policies and the results.

People need only look at the early Zionist/pre state conversations to know that the mission is and always has been, how to acquite the land without being lumbered with the people. That's what the evidence supports, that's what the policies have delivered and that's why you haven't seriously challenged any of it in your posts

Challenged what? You're not making a single argument here. The burden of proof is on he who makes the claim.
You claim things? Back them up. You expect people to take your opinions for facts and then form discussions on their basis.
Quotations taken out of context of people who lived ages ago has nothing to do with anything here. That's not a logical argument.

 

[oneworld2]

Challenged what? You're not making a single argument here. The burden of proof is on he who makes the claim.
You claim things? Back them up. You expect people to take your opinions for facts and then form discussions on their basis.
Quotations taken out of context of people who lived ages ago has nothing to do with anything here. That's not a logical argument.

Your posts here have been a testimony to the art of evasiveness and continue on that road. What quotes were taken out of context ?

 

[Apocalypse]

Your posts here have been a testimony to the art of evasiveness and continue on that road. What quotes were taken out of context ?

That is another baseless opinion.

 

[oneworld2]

That is another baseless opinion.

What quotes were taken out of context ?

 

[Apocalypse]

What quotes were taken out of context ?

Proving my point. You only wish to discuss your own baseless opinions, just like here you're clearly making an attempt to form discussion around your quotations spam.
You want invalid arguments such as logical fallacies and non-sequitur injections to be the basis for the discussion here. They shouldn't.

 

[oneworld2]

Proving my point. You only wish to discuss your own baseless opinions, just like here you're clearly making an attempt to form discussion around your quotations spam.
You want invalid arguments such as logical fallacies and non-sequitur injections to be the basis for the discussion here. They shouldn't.

In your posts you request evidence , so some is given to you in the form of quotes. You then refer to it as "spam"

Your claim was that they were taken out of context, recall ? What quotes were taken out of context ? Where's your evidence ?

 

[Apocalypse]

In your posts you request evidence , so some is given to you in the form of quotes. You then refer to it as "spam"

Your claim was that they were taken out of context, recall ? What quotes were taken out of context ? Where's your evidence ?

Quotations aren't evidence. Quotations of people from ages ago even less so.
Clearly if you had actual actions, policies, laws, etc. to bring to the table, it'd show by now.

 

[oneworld2]

Quotations aren't evidence. Quotations of people from ages ago even less so.
Clearly if you had actual actions, policies, laws, etc. to bring to the table, it'd show by now.

Of course they are evidence. These are quotes from the very people charged with setting policies/processes etc etc

They are from " ages ago " because the process of acquiring Palestine for the state of Israel and the Jewish people that wish to live there predates the state by around half a century.

They settled on compulsory transfer even before the state was born.

They have taken the opportunity that wars offered to rid Palestine of millions of Palestinians. The diaspora population that is the result is higher than that of occupied Palestine.

The illegal settlements are a further example of how the demographic makeup of Palestine has been altered through policies designed to make illegal annexations more likely.

Disparities in justice, building permits, home destructions, rights abuses, enticements to settlement dwellers by the stae of Israel, all evidence of policies that confirm the state of Israels , to use Dayans term " process ", aimed at demographic change to favour Jewish ownership/control over the entire area formrly known as Palestine.

Your posts are big on claims but short on any meaningful content imo

What quotes were taken out of context ? I don't recall in any of your subsequent posts you ever answering this question about the claim you made.

You now appear to be saying they are somehow illegitimate because of their age and have dropped the charge altogether regarding context. Is this how people should be discussing these things ?

 

[snakestretcher]

Is it a war crime if I build an illegal structure and it is removed?

Illegal according to who? Israel's laws applied in illegally occupied territory are meaningless. If an occupying power (in this case Israel), destroys civilian homes in the territories occupied, it is a war crime. Both Geneva and International Law are clear on this matter.

 

[Apocalypse]

Of course they are evidence. These are quotes from the very people charged with setting policies/processes etc etc

They are from " ages ago " because the process of acquiring Palestine for the state of Israel and the Jewish people that wish to live there predates the state by around half a century.

They settled on compulsory transfer even before the state was born.

They have taken the opportunity that wars offered to rid Palestine of millions of Palestinians. The diaspora population that is the result is higher than that of occupied Palestine.

The illegal settlements are a further example of how the demographic makeup of Palestine has been altered through policies designed to make illegal annexations more likely.

Disparities in justice, building permits, home destructions, rights abuses, enticements to settlement dwellers by the stae of Israel, all evidence of policies that confirm the state of Israels , to use Dayans term " process ", aimed at demographic change to favour Jewish ownership/control over the entire area formrly known as Palestine.

Your posts are big on claims but short on any meaningful content imo

What quotes were taken out of context ? I don't recall in any of your subsequent posts you ever answering this question about the claim you made.

You now appear to be saying they are somehow illegitimate because of their age and have dropped the charge altogether regarding context. Is this how people should be discussing these things ?

They're invalid arguments.
Carrying no meaning whatsoever regarding current actions. You're just trying to make them the basis for a discussion revolving what is your baseless opinion regarding what is happening.
So again, if you had any laws/policies/etc. to bring to the table, you would. Clearly there aren't any you're able to think about.

 

[oneworld2]

They're invalid arguments.
Carrying no meaning whatsoever regarding current actions. You're just trying to make them the basis for a discussion revolving what is your baseless opinion regarding what is happening.
So again, if you had any laws/policies/etc. to bring to the table, you would. Clearly there aren't any you're able to think about.

Your posts bring nothing to the discussion imo.

For example, I have asked you to back your claim that I have quoted Dayan out of context on numerous occasions already and you have yet to provide anything to back it up. When people bring evidence to the table to back their claims they cease to be baseless claims. My posts have provided and your posts haven't thus far.

I'm sure too you will be aware that pre state zionist leaders settled on compulsory transfer ( of the resident Arab population ) even before the state was created bvut it appears you wish to ignore that too in your posts/replies.

If you don't feel comfortable with providing any evidence for the claims made in your posts or anything to refute claims made in mine, which appears to be the case here, that's okay too. Just understand that's not how discussions prosper

 

[Apocalypse]

Your posts bring nothing to the discussion imo.

For example, I have asked you to back your claim that I have quoted Dayan out of context on numerous occasions already and you have yet to provide anything to back it up. When people bring evidence to the table to back their claims they cease to be baseless claims. My posts have provided and your posts haven't thus far.

I'm sure too you will be aware that pre state zionist leaders settled on compulsory transfer ( of the resident Arab population ) even before the state was created bvut it appears you wish to ignore that too in your posts/replies.

If you don't feel comfortable with providing any evidence for the claims made in your posts or anything to refute claims made in mine, which appears to be the case here, that's okay too. Just understand that's not how discussions prosper

I haven't made a single claim so far in this thread.
All that my posts have done is to present the crystal clear fact that you do not make a single logical argument in favor of your opinions here, branding them baseless.
That remains true after this latest post as well, since there is no reference to anything relevant to the claim you've made regarding Israel's current agenda.
All you've been doing so far is attempting to divert discussion from logical arguments surrounding the claim you've made to irrelevant quotations spam and insisting that your quotations spam carries some meaning.

 

[oneworld2]

I haven't made a single claim so far in this thread.
All that my posts have done is to present the crystal clear fact that you do not make a single logical argument in favor of your opinions here, branding them baseless.
That remains true after this latest post as well, since there is no reference to anything relevant to the claim you've made regarding Israel's current agenda.
All you've been doing so far is attempting to divert discussion from logical arguments surrounding the claim you've made to irrelevant quotations spam and insisting that your quotations spam carries some meaning.

You claimed the quotes of Dayan I referred to were taken out of context but have provided nothing whatsoever to back it thus far. Correct ? You have referred to them as " spam " and " irrelevant " when they are actually highly relevant and have been referred to sparsely. Is it possible to be more wrong in your words above ?

The demographic changes in Palestine wished for by pre state and post state leaders are well documented and as such denial of them is pretty futile.

As I said earlier and it is has been painfully obvious ever since, your posts offer nothing to enable debate and haven't even been accurate assessments of the posts of others as shown above.

 

[justabubba]

You claimed the quotes of Dayan I referred to were taken out of context but have provided nothing whatsoever to back it thus far. Correct ? You have referred to them as " spam " and " irrelevant " when they are actually highly relevant and have been referred to sparsely. Is it possible to be more wrong in your words above ?

The demographic changes in Palestine wished for by pre state and post state leaders are well documented and as such denial of them is pretty futile.

As I said earlier and it is has been painfully obvious ever since, your posts offer nothing to enable debate and haven't even been accurate assessments of the posts of others as shown above.

would not surprise me to learn that some forum members get paid to post by foreign entities

 

[oneworld2]

would not surprise me to learn that some forum members get paid to post by foreign entities

Maybe , maybe not, who knows . All's I can tell you Bubba is that my input provides no income from anyone/ anything and is probably not even worthy of doing so. I'm here because of my own nations critical role in this debacle with an intention to play my part in trying to make/work towards a better situation in todays world.

 

[justabubba]

Maybe , maybe not, who knows . All's I can tell you Bubba is that my input provides no income from anyone/ anything and is probably not even worthy of doing so. I'm here because of my own nations critical role in this debacle with an intention to play my part in trying to make/work towards a better situation in todays world.

i recognize that, just as i recognize that you and your posts can be found in other areas of political forum. for a few, not so much. they have a focus about the topics twoard which they post - and what they have to share ALWAYS has a lean in a particular nation's direction. which is what prompts my suspicion about the motivation for their forum activity. hopefully, no one believes russia is the only bad actor in such proliferation of internet propaganda