[W:436] Biden declares himself 'blameless' if US defaults on debt: 'I've done my part'

[anatta]

Ok, but the fallback position it’s while that’s legitimate under the rules it’s NOT negotiating in good faith.

Not when Dems pass debt ceilings without issue when Pubs are in the White House and Pubs only hold it hostage when Dems are in the White House.

It’s a lousy tactic, readily seen for what it is. That buys the bully boys and gals, using the bully tactics, the blame.

Sorry, but it’s fair. The instigators win the rebuke and the blame.

most debt ceiling votes are not a "clean bill"
since Dems do not care about deficit spending its more likely they wouldn't demand cutting the rate of spending

 

[Kushinator]

unfunded liabilities the Dems foolishly put into the FY2023 budget

Answer is no,

The answer is yes.

Here's another example to illustrate the concept.

A person earning $100k / year saved $20000 in a year. The surplus was $20000. But in that same year they borrowed $60000 to buy a new car.

Here, there was a surplus ($20k) while debt increased by $60k.

 

[rahl]

I explained why it was a so-called surplus.

and I corrected you.

Not a word about the explanation in your response. Not surprise.

Because it's partisan butt hurt hackery. Clinton had a budget surplus. It's not debatable.

 

[AZRWinger]

Starting to get it now, aren't you? Not so quick to make bogus charges and personal attacks. SS and Medicare funds went into the general fund creating a shortage in those categories which are a violation of law thus bonds were issued and interest created thus creating the deficits in the total budget, 1.4 TRILLION during the Clinton term

You are basically correct. SS excess revenue went into the general fund creating the illusion of a balanced budget. This accounting sleight of hand was accomplished by "selling" special purpose bonds to the SS trust fund.

This is a systemic fault in SS Clinton exploited to "balance" the budget. Decades later with SS running a deficit the trust fund bonds are being cashed as nondiscretionary spending. Today's taxpayers are paying for Clinton's so-called balanced budget.

 

[AZRWinger]

and I corrected you.

Because it's partisan butt hurt hackery. Clinton had a budget surplus. It's not debatable.

See post 979 for the facts behind the so-called surplus.

Insulting me doesn't erase the fact the claim of a balanced budget is illusory. Neither do the attacks relieve the drag on current revenues from cashing the same kind of bonds Clinton used to "balance" the budget.

 

[rahl]

See post 979 for the facts behind the so-called surplus.

I've corrected you already. There was no "so-called" surplus. There was a budget surplus. It's not debatable.

Insulting me doesn't erase the fact the claim of a balanced budget is illusory.

I didn't insult you. I pointed out we had a budget surplus, and your denial of reality is a result of partisan hackery.

Neither do the attacks relieve the drag on current revenues from cashing the same kind of bonds Clinton used to "balance" the budget.

The drags on revenue are entirely due to republican revenue slashing (tax cuts).

 

[Conservative]

The answer is yes.

Here's another example to illustrate the concept.

A person earning $100k / year saved $20000 in a year. The surplus was $20000. But in that same year they borrowed $60000 to buy a new car.

Here, there was a surplus ($20k) while debt increased by $60k.

And that bothers you why? Losing out on gov't spending that you need to exist?

For someone who deducted their high state and local taxes from their federal return you don't have much credibility on this issue. Anyone who focuses on Federal revenue and took those deductions is a hypocrite.

 

[poweRob]

Republicans own it no matter how much finger pointing they try.

 

[Conservative]

Republicans own it no matter how much finger pointing they try.

Sure they do as of course the GOP had total control of Congress in 2021-2022 when there was a 2.8 trillion dollar and 1.4 trillion dollar deficit and waited until the 2022 elections to decide on the debt ceiling. Amazing the loyalty the left has to this ideology and yet such ignorance of the budget process and spending

 

[BabaVoss]

The House Republicans decided to hold the nation hostage by not raising the debt limit. Few other countries do this, and it is frankly an artificial construct that needs to be done away with. Once Congress decides to spend taxpayer dollars, the debt limit should be automatically adjusted to account for that decision. We‘ve already decided to spend the money. Now is the time to pay the bill.

When my credit card bill arrives, I don’t look around for someone to negotiate with. I pay the bill. Republicans want us to not pay the bill unless they get what they want. They need to put the country first and stop plathing with fire. A default would put us in uncharted territory, and will cost us all a great deal.

The GOP owns this. What they are doing is reckless and ill-advised.

 

[Kushinator]

And that bothers you why? Losing out on gov't spending that you need to exist?

For someone who deducted their high state and local taxes from their federal return you don't have much credibility on this issue. Anyone who focuses on Federal revenue and took those deductions is a hypocrite.

There were budget surpluses in 1998, 1999, and 2000.

 

[Conservative]

The House Republicans decided to hold the nation hostage by not raising the debt limit. Few other countries do this, and it is frankly an artificial construct that needs to be done away with. Once Congress decides to spend taxpayer dollars, the debt limit should be automatically adjusted to account for that decision. We‘ve already decided to spend the money. Now is the time to pay the bill.

When my credit card bill arrives, I don’t look around for someone to negotiate with. I pay the bill. Republicans want us to not pay the bill unless they get what they want. They need to put the country first and stop plathing with fire. A default would put us in uncharted territory, and will cost us all a great deal.

The GOP owns this. What they are doing is reckless and ill-advised.

democrats controlled the Congress and the WH in 2021 and 2022, what did they do about the debt ceiling while racking up 2.8 trillion in deficits in 2021 and 1.4 trillion in 2022?

 

[Conservative]

There were budget surpluses in 1998, 1999, and 2000.

Sorry but that isn't reality regarding the total budget, why was their interest expense during the Clinton term with surpluses. Surpluses pay down debt and that didn't happen

 

[Kushinator]

Sorry but that isn't reality regarding the total budget, why was their interest expense during the Clinton term with surpluses.

Here you go again making up new terminology... what is the total budget? There was debt that was being serviced from the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Reagan era, etc....

Surpluses pay down debt and that didn't happen

Maybe over a longer horizon if the Treasury choses to do so.

Debt can increase even if there are budgetary surpluses. Why is this so difficult for you to admit? That there was a FICA surplus is irrelevant, and doesn't change the fact that revenue > outlays in 1998, 1999, and 2000.

 

[Conservative]

Here you go again making up new terminology... what is the total budget? There was debt that was being serviced from the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Reagan era, etc....

Maybe over a longer horizon if the Treasury choses to do so.

Debt can increase even if there are budgetary surpluses. Why is this so difficult for you to admit? That there was a FICA surplus is irrelevant, and doesn't change the fact that revenue > outlays in 1998, 1999, and 2000.

Total budget

U.S. Federal Budget Breakdown

The FY 2022 federal budget proposal was over $6 trillion, with an estimated revenue of about $4.2 trillion, creating a deficit worth about $1.9 trillion.

www.thebalancemoney.com

Government spending is broken down into three categories: mandatory spending, discretionary spending, and interest on the national debt. Each category of spending has different subcategories.

 

[Kushinator]

Total budget

We've been discussing the total budget this whole time. Did you honestly believe for one second anyone was referring to anything else?

 

[Conservative]

We've been discussing the total budget this whole time. Did you honestly believe for one second anyone was referring to anything else?

I gave you the link to the items in the total budget, Mandatory items, Discretionary Items, and Interest expense. You prove to the forum that there wasn't enough FIT, CIT, Excise taxes in 2017-2019 to fund the discretionary budget and interest expense? I won't hold my breath

 

[Kushinator]

You prove to the forum that there wasn't enough FIT, CIT, Excise taxes in 2017-2019 to fund the discretionary budget and interest expense? I won't hold my breath

Why the **** would i have to prove anything of the sort? Do you even remember what posts you're responding to?

 

[Conservative]

Why the **** would i have to prove anything of the sort? Do you even remember what posts you're responding to?

Because you are the one claiming that the federal gov't isn't getting enough revenue to fund operations because of the tax cutsand yet as pointed out you had no problem deducting your high state and local taxes from your federal return thus paying less than those making the same money but not having those deductions

Oh by the way, interesting how you continue to divert from why you want the Trump tax cuts reversed restoring those high state and local tax deductions from your federal return. Guess the reduction in rates didn't give you enough spendable income to make those rates more palatable

I posted the link showing the budget line items, Discretionary budget and interest expense are funded by FIT which are the operating expenses of the US along with debt service of those bonds issued by the gov't. FICA funds the mandatory line which don't go to all Americans whereas the operating expenses of the US do thus FIT payments.

 

[AZRWinger]

I've corrected you already. There was no "so-called" surplus. There was a budget surplus. It's not debatable.

I didn't insult you. I pointed out we had a budget surplus, and your denial of reality is a result of partisan hackery.

The drags on revenue are entirely due to republican revenue slashing (tax cuts).

Your feeble attempt at rebuttal is completely unresponsive to the facts.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

most debt ceiling votes are not a "clean bill"
since Dems do not care about deficit spending its more likely they wouldn't demand cutting the rate of spending

That’s not authentic. It’s “alt” in nature.

The record clearly shows Pubs have no problem spending money. They spend it quite freely. They just don’t like spending it on social net programs. Corporate welfare and military industrial complex spending and reduction of revenue via tax cuts for the donor class is just fine by them.

So it’s not a matter of actual conservative fiscal policy. It’s simply what the money gets spent on.

As a non-partisan fiscal conservative I don’t play those games. Balanced budgets are my agenda and it’s easy to see where the next rounds of cuts come from.

Social net programs have been cut twice since 2008. Corporate welfare not a penny. It’s increased. Military spending, the same. Trump tax cuts for the working and middle class expired. His cuts for the donor class, still in effect. Bush’s as well.

They’ll be a time for consideration of more social net cutting. First, cuts to corporate welfare and military industrial complex, tax increases for the donor class. It’s their turns.

 

[Kushinator]

Because you are the one claiming that the federal gov't isn't getting enough revenue to fund operations because of the tax cuts

There would still be deficits without the tax cuts. I've not claimed anything close to what you're attributing to me in this thread. You do not know how to engage in a discussion without going full fallacy at every turn.

high state and local taxes

WTF does this garbage have to do with the discussion? Nothing. You were replying to a post in regards to surpluses occurring simultaneously with debt growth.

Oh by the way, interesting how you continue to divert from why you want the Trump tax cuts

The sun must be going down where you are. I haven't mentioned the Trump tax cuts in this thread.

You clearly do not understand what's being discussed, and are shitting all over the thread hoping to get some attention. I guess being ridiculed is better than being all alone.

 

[Conservative]

There would still be deficits without the tax cuts. I've not claimed anything close to what you're attributing to me in this thread. You do not know how to engage in a discussion without going full fallacy at every turn.

WTF does this garbage have to do with the discussion? Nothing. You were replying to a post in regards to surpluses occurring simultaneously with debt growth.

The sun must be going down where you are. I haven't mentioned the Trump tax cuts in this thread.

You clearly do not understand what's being discussed, and are shitting all over the thread hoping to get some attention. I guess being ridiculed is better than being all alone.

Waiting for an answer, did FIT, CIT, Excise tax revenue after the tax cut fund the discretionary budget AND debt service

Did state and local revenues set records after the tax cuts?

Did Charitable giving set records after the tax cuts?

 

[Kushinator]

Waiting for an answer

Why am i supposed to answer whatever random question you come up with? Nobody is moved by your opinions on taxes and spending. We don't care. Now it is mildly amusing to poke fun at a supposedly able human who is filled to the gills with utter nonsense. Your sheer presence naturally creates an anti-MAGA stigma no matter the topic.

 

[choiceone]

It isn't just the US economy that would tank with a default. The whole world would suffer. And you can forget any help for Ukraine because the dollar would become really worthless.

We spend five times as much on our defense as any other country, so if we spent 3.5 times as much, we'd be fine. If tiny tax increases were put on people who earn millions and billions a year, they wouldn't feel it at all and hardly even be aware of it. If interest rates on unearned income increased the tiniest bit, no one would significantly suffer. Yet the GOP doesn't want any defense cut or tax increase.

Instead, they resent disabled people who don't have jobs. They demand that women give birth even if the fetus has no legs, half a brain, and congenital blindness and deafness and then, having given them the job of caring for them 24/7, as no one will adopt them, plans to say they are lazy if they don't have full time jobs six weeks after giving birth. And they don't want to pay for the baby's disabilities.

These people are simply impossible or perhaps just simpletons.