• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Umpire Jim Joyce makes a horrible call, costing a pitcher a perfect game.

Polynikes

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
522
Reaction score
163
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Here's a video of it with some analysis:

YouTube - Kurkjian On Jim Joyce's Disputed Call

Poor Armando Galarraga, would've been the 21st pitcher in MLB history. He deserved it.

Hopefully instant replay review becomes common place in the MLB after this.

What a horrible call at a horrible time. I'm truly shocked he made that call, as the commentators say, that's a call they get correct 10,000 out of 10,000 times.

Wonder if there was an alterior motive at play.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,297
Reaction score
50,288
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
We have been talking about this in the So, Baseball thread. I was watching the game as it happened, and am a huge Tigers fan. I doubt there was any ulterior motive, and from the description of his reaction of the game, it sounds like Joyce was just beside himself with distress at missing the call.
 

DeeJayH

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
11,728
Reaction score
1,688
Location
Scooping Zeus' Poop
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Alyssa Milano trashed the umpire for the call
The umpire has since acknowledged his mistake
still sucks for the pitcher
 

randel

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
5,692
Reaction score
2,047
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
kudos to both galarraga, and the umpire....the ump for making an apology, and galarraga for being a bigger man than i could have been in the situation, for accepting the apology.
 

Tucker Case

Matthew 16:3
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
45,603
Reaction score
22,539
Location
Everywhere and nowhere
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Galarraga was pure class in how he handled it.

I'm not a tigers fan but I just became a fan of that guy. And even if the record books won't show it, the dude had a perfect game.

And I feel bad for Joyce, to be honest. He'll never live that terrible call down.
 

Gina

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
44,021
Reaction score
29,308
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
What a heart breaker. I'm watching it again this morning. Galarraga is class defined especially, as I was in a discussion last night, that only a few players get an opportunity to leave a mark on the game. This was going to be his mark. Only the 21st pitcher in the entire history of the game to accomplish this rare feat. It is almost 100% certain, he will never get close to this again. Just a real shame.



Instant replay needs to become part of baseball.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
49,737
Reaction score
31,563
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
no doubt the first base umpire had the primary responsibility for that call; and he made it. (and while he blew the 'safe' call, kudos for him to later acknowledge his error)
however, the umpire crew is a team
in a scenario where the first base ump makes an 'out' call at first as a result of the timing of the throw compared to the location of the runner, it is the responsibility of the plate umpire to look at the first baseman's foot, to make sure it was in contact with the bag when the ball was received
if the first baseman was found to have pulled his foot off the bag to make the catch, the plate umpire would go to the first base umpire and tell him what he observed, allowing the first base umpire the opportunity to change his call to the right one
while that was not the identical scenario in this game, that same protocol should have been followed. the other umpires who saw it was a blown call should have called 'time out' to huddle with the first base ump. then let him know if he made the safe call because the first baseman was not in control of the ball to let the 'safe call stand, but to let him know that they saw it as an out if it was purely a timing call. a good umpire would recognize that he was being helped out of a bad situation and would have reversed his original call to make the right one ... and then would have bought beer for his crew after the game for saving his butt
it is the responsibility of all members of the umpiring crew to try to get the call right
 

donsutherland1

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
11,691
Reaction score
9,981
Location
New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I don't believe there was any motive at play. The umpire simply made a mistake.

MLB should rectify the situation and overturn the call. MLB did so in the past e.g., concerning George Brett's "pine tar" home run. Whether MLB is willing to fix what is an obvious and glaring error remains to be seen. For the integrity of MLB's statistics, the move should be made. There's nothing ambiguous about the situation.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
73,202
Reaction score
30,800
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Here's a video of it with some analysis:

YouTube - Kurkjian On Jim Joyce's Disputed Call

Poor Armando Galarraga, would've been the 21st pitcher in MLB history. He deserved it.

Hopefully instant replay review becomes common place in the MLB after this.

What a horrible call at a horrible time. I'm truly shocked he made that call, as the commentators say, that's a call they get correct 10,000 out of 10,000 times.

Wonder if there was an alterior motive at play.
I dont know...I think this is pretty much what is RIGHT with sports. The pitcher showed INCREDIBLE poise and class. The umpire accepted his responsibility and made a mistake. Baseball has avoided instant replay and I think it is actually the right thing to do. I also think because this would have been the LAST out they could actually fix it since the ump has addmitted it to be the wrong call and there were no other hits.

Now...

Am I the only one that thinks MAYBE the ump DIDNT miss the call? I know the pitcher got to the bag before the runner...but...doesnt it look like he snowconed the baseball and bobbled it in the glove before gaining control...and that the runner beat the 'control'? It looks a lot like a possession call in football...and of course...I can be worng. The replays are so focused on the feet it doesnt clearly show whether or not the ball is bobbled in the glove.
 

Gina

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
44,021
Reaction score
29,308
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
I don't believe there was any motive at play. The umpire simply made a mistake.

MLB should rectify the situation and overturn the call. MLB did so in the past e.g., concerning George Brett's "pine tar" home run. Whether MLB is willing to fix what is an obvious and glaring error remains to be seen. For the integrity of MLB's statistics, the move should be made. There's nothing ambiguous about the situation.
There is a big chant today for the league to overturn it. Given that the next batter was out, without a hit as well, it makes sense.

EDIT: I agree, there doesn't seem to be a motive involved. Joyce honest to God thought he was right until he saw the tape.

Further, anyone harassing his family, are jerks of the first order. They need to lay off.
 
Last edited:

Gina

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
44,021
Reaction score
29,308
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
no doubt the first base umpire had the primary responsibility for that call; and he made it. (and while he blew the 'safe' call, kudos for him to later acknowledge his error)
however, the umpire crew is a team
in a scenario where the first base ump makes an 'out' call at first as a result of the timing of the throw compared to the location of the runner, it is the responsibility of the plate umpire to look at the first baseman's foot, to make sure it was in contact with the bag when the ball was received
if the first baseman was found to have pulled his foot off the bag to make the catch, the plate umpire would go to the first base umpire and tell him what he observed, allowing the first base umpire the opportunity to change his call to the right one
while that was not the identical scenario in this game, that same protocol should have been followed. the other umpires who saw it was a blown call should have called 'time out' to huddle with the first base ump. then let him know if he made the safe call because the first baseman was not in control of the ball to let the 'safe call stand, but to let him know that they saw it as an out if it was purely a timing call. a good umpire would recognize that he was being helped out of a bad situation and would have reversed his original call to make the right one ... and then would have bought beer for his crew after the game for saving his butt
it is the responsibility of all members of the umpiring crew to try to get the call right
Well said. I wondered why I didn't see a confab with the other umps. Where was the plate umpire? He's the chief of the crew on the field. In such an important call, he bears some responsibility for allowing the call to stand during the game.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,297
Reaction score
50,288
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
After watching the interview post game with Gallaraga that was up on ESPN, I got to say that he is a pure class act. I knew it to an extent when he smiled and and walked away after the call, but his obviously feeling bad for Joyce in the interview, that shows me something. The fact he was so upbeat and happy, despite having lost the perfect game, speaks volumes.

And as I typed that, Bud Selig just made an announcement as reported intodays game saying that MLB will be re-examining instant replay. Today's Tigers game is not a pitching duel...
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
939
Reaction score
96
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Here's a video of it with some analysis:

YouTube - Kurkjian On Jim Joyce's Disputed Call

Poor Armando Galarraga, would've been the 21st pitcher in MLB history. He deserved it.

Hopefully instant replay review becomes common place in the MLB after this.

What a horrible call at a horrible time. I'm truly shocked he made that call, as the commentators say, that's a call they get correct 10,000 out of 10,000 times.

Wonder if there was an alterior motive at play.
Oh god, we mine as well move this to the conspiracy theory forum now.

Anyway, it wasn't even that bad of a call. If you watched it in real time it was close. The only reason people say it was a horrible call is since they saw it in slow-motion replay.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
49,737
Reaction score
31,563
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Oh god, we mine as well move this to the conspiracy theory forum now.
Anyway, it wasn't even that bad of a call. If you watched it in real time it was close. The only reason people say it was a horrible call is since they saw it in slow-motion replay.
for an experienced umpire, that was a routine "out" call - in real time
and the umpire who made the bad call has admitted it
sometimes the ump gets into a bad habit of 'anticipating the call', where you see the play developing and anticipate what the outcome will be before the play is completed. an ump has to fight not to allow that to happen. one of the ways to do that is to hold the call for a moment, rather than make a quick call. if you will notice, the ump made an immediate (wrong) call. my guess is that his anticipation of the play was the cause of the mistaken "safe" call
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,297
Reaction score
50,288
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Oh god, we mine as well move this to the conspiracy theory forum now.

Anyway, it wasn't even that bad of a call. If you watched it in real time it was close. The only reason people say it was a horrible call is since they saw it in slow-motion replay.
I watched it in real time as it happened. It was a bad call.
 

liblady

pirate lover
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
16,165
Reaction score
5,060
Location
St Thomas, VI
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
I watched it in real time as it happened. It was a bad call.
hell, the picture i saw was clear, it was a horrendous call. selig should reverse it and give the guy his perfect game.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,297
Reaction score
50,288
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Commissioner Bud Selig says he'll look at expanded instant replay in wake of blown call - ESPN

Selig said Thursday that Major League Baseball will look at expanded replay and umpiring, but didn't specifically address umpire Jim Joyce's botched call Wednesday night.

A baseball official familiar with the decision confirmed to The Associated Press that the call was not being reversed. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because that element was not included in Selig's statement.

Joyce said he erred on what would've been the final out in Detroit, where the Tigers beat Cleveland 3-0. The umpire personally apologized to Galarraga and hugged him after the game, then took the field at Comerica Park on Thursday in tears.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
49,737
Reaction score
31,563
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
hell, the picture i saw was clear, it was a horrendous call. selig should reverse it and give the guy his perfect game.
that's a slippery slope which establishes a game changing precedent some of us stalwarts would not want to see

yea, i'm an old fart. get the hell off of my lawn!
 

Gipper

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
25,120
Reaction score
7,658
Location
Theoretical Physics Lab
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
The Tigers fans were very understanding and forgiving. I half figured he would have to go into hiding and learn to dodge bullets like Bartman and Denkinger.
 

Polynikes

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
522
Reaction score
163
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Oh god, we mine as well move this to the conspiracy theory forum now.

Anyway, it wasn't even that bad of a call. If you watched it in real time it was close. The only reason people say it was a horrible call is since they saw it in slow-motion replay.
Jim Joyce seems genuinely distraught over this. Seeing him and Galarraga meet the next game, Joyce looked like someone killed his dog. The only reason I mentioned the possibility of an ulterior motive, and it wasn't being conspiratorial, is that it seems odd for an umpire to miss such a blatant call (and it was a horrible call, even in real-time) at a big moment. Obviously they are professionals and are not going to make a call just to give a pitcher a perfect game. That being said, they are still human, and you would think any call that is that close would go to pitcher. I understand ties go to the runner, but that was no where near a tie by baseball standards.

As far as ulterior motives, I merely meant a grudge or something along those lines, I don't believe in anyway he was paid off or anything of the likes.
 

Polynikes

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
522
Reaction score
163
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I don't believe there was any motive at play. The umpire simply made a mistake.

MLB should rectify the situation and overturn the call. MLB did so in the past e.g., concerning George Brett's "pine tar" home run. Whether MLB is willing to fix what is an obvious and glaring error remains to be seen. For the integrity of MLB's statistics, the move should be made. There's nothing ambiguous about the situation.
I wasn't aware that they had overturned calls in the past, that's interesting. I think it's a dangerous move and has the potential to open up a can of worms. I could see many a player and coaches coming forward to plead their cases on instances where mistakes were made and caught on camera.
 

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
106,297
Reaction score
50,288
Location
Georgia
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
The Tigers fans were very understanding and forgiving. I half figured he would have to go into hiding and learn to dodge bullets like Bartman and Denkinger.
Leyland publicly asked before yesterdays game that the fans not boo Joyce. When Joyce came out, he actually got some applause, with a few boos mixed in. After the game in the post game interview for Fox Sport Detroit, Leyland was choked up, saying how wonderful the fans in Detroit where to handle it so well.
 

Gipper

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
25,120
Reaction score
7,658
Location
Theoretical Physics Lab
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Oh, see I didn't know that. My sports knowledge up there is shamefully limited because of my new geographical limitations. Que sera, sera.

I just assumed that they saw the absolutely first-class way Galarraga handled it and followed suit. You have to admit that he's acted with a tact to survive the ages in this situation.
 
Top Bottom