Trump team seeks to control, block Mueller’s Russia investigation

[SenorXm/Sirius]

That's right, it doesn't. You have to actually win. Hillary, it turns out, couldn't do that, not even against a candidate as toxic as Trump.



Sure. And you can gain more yards than your opponent, yet still lose the football game. You can spend more time in control of the ball, and still lose the football match. You can lead the pack for the majority of the race, and yet lose if you aren't in front at the end. You can be taller, and yet lose at Jeopardy. You can speak better English, and yet lose the chess tournament. Irrelevant measurements are irrelevant measurements.

Democrats chose a candidate so awful, she managed to lose to Trump. I realize that's a hard to admit to being ones' self.


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Trump also beat 15-16 Republicans in the GOP primary. Were they all awful candidates? So no, you can NOT pin the blame for Trump on the Dems.

Trump is 100% the fault of the Republican Party and the rabid RW base that voted for him. And any damage he does is all the Republican's fault, not just for putting him in power but for sitting back and NOT doing a damn thing to stop him. They control Congress and they are letting him sell the country to Putin.

Disgusting.

 

[Manc Skipper]

So now that the "Law and Order" president is at war with the Security Services, the AG and the DoJ, he's also actively seeking to undermine an investigation into himself and his crime family. When does this become a constitutional crisis?

 

[Cardinal]

Alright, here we go. To put the nail in the lid on this one point: no, the President can't pardon himself.

Presidential or Legislative Pardon of the President

Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, the President cannot pardon
himself.

MARY C. LAWTON
Acting Assistant Attorney General
Office of Legal Counsel under Nixon

https://www.justice.gov/file/20856/download

Every Republican thus far interviewed has refused "to entertain hypotheticals" on how they would respond if Trump were to fire Mueller and/or pardon subjects of the investigation.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Primaries aren't part of our official election system - they are private events, run by private entities (the parties). Party's are free not to have primaries (in fact, the Libertarians don't).

But no system of representative government can survive the degradation of it's people. Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people - it is wholly inadequate to the government of any other (James Adams). As the American people have coarsened, so have our politics. As we have celebrated vices, our politics have come to reflect them.

I never bought the idea that people in the past were more moral then people today, you had slavery of Africans and genocide of Native Americans in Early America, those are bigger sins then anything Trump has done. You also had stuff like the witch trials in Salem, say what you will about modern society, people don't burn witches anymore.

Also I am pretty cynical, so the rose tinted view of the past does nothing for me, in many key ways society has changed, but in many other ways humanity always kinda remains the same.

And parties may be private organizations, but they are ones who form the government and execute government policy, they are not a private institutions the way say Netflix is. The primary system dominates the US political system and frankly it doesn't make a lot of sense. Frankly I think the US public would be happier with a smaller, shorter, less expensive election cycle.

 

[prometeus]

Wonderful. News breaks that Mueller is probing the Trump criminal empire. Trump immediately becomes curious if he has the power to pardon himself.

What the hell has happened to this country?

A multitude of low intellect assholes who do not give a crap about the nation as long as they can claim a victory, nor are they capable of grasping what they are doing.

 

[Napoleon]

Well, it's actually rather simple. There can be no pardon without a criminal conviction. A pardon can save someone from prison time but even if he could pardon himself it can't stop an Article II impeachment and removal from office.

 

[beefheart]

Well, it's actually rather simple. There can be no pardon without a criminal conviction. A pardon can save someone from prison time but even if he could pardon himself it can't stop an Article II impeachment and removal from office.

Nixon was never convicted....

 

[Fenton]

A multitude of low intellect assholes who do not give a crap about the nation as long as they can claim a victory, nor are they capable of grasping what they are doing.

You just described every Obama amd Hillary supporter...Lol

 

[Captain America]

Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
Actually, we have Trump because the founding fathers thought it a good idea to have a system where the will of most wasn't synonymous with how the EC would go. The plurality of the country voted for a specific character who it thought was better. In the nearest political systems, this would have allowed that candidate to form a government. In ours, it doesn't mean jack.

The EC system literally led us to this possibility, not who Democrats chose.

This is true.

Good point. No one on the DNC side has ever read the Constitution, so they couldn't have been expected to know the rules, and compete accordingly.

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This too, figuratively speaking, is true.

 

[prometeus]

You just described every Obama amd Hillary supporter...Lol

You are mistaken, as usual. None of those voted for this idiot.

 

[prometeus]

Nixon was never convicted....

Yea he too was the victim of a witch hunt and needed the pardon because he was not a crook.

 

[cpwill]

I never bought the idea that people in the past were more moral then people today, you had slavery of Africans and genocide of Native Americans in Early America, those are bigger sins then anything Trump has done. You also had stuff like the witch trials in Salem, say what you will about modern society, people don't burn witches anymore.

Also I am pretty cynical, so the rose tinted view of the past does nothing for me, in many key ways society has changed, but in many other ways humanity always kinda remains the same.

And parties may be private organizations, but they are ones who form the government and execute government policy, they are not a private institutions the way say Netflix is. The primary system dominates the US political system and frankly it doesn't make a lot of sense. Frankly I think the US public would be happier with a smaller, shorter, less expensive election cycle.

That's an excellent point; a better way to say that would have been: "As the vices we celebrate shift, so too do our politics".

The primaries, however, are there to make the process more Democratic. The length and money are not a product of the candidates (who hate the grind), but of the value of winning, which we have raised beyond wisdom.

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[cpwill]

I would say big money as the number 1 cause.

Nah. Money is just easy to demonize.

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[Napoleon]

Nixon was never convicted....

The Nixon pardon was purely symbolic.

 

[Tigerace117]

So you are sticking with the whole "media is the enemy" thing. And you want to restrict the media's freedom of speech.

How Un-American.

Printing stuff that could get people killed in the name of "profit" isn't American.

 

[cpwill]

Trump also beat 15-16 Republicans in the GOP primary. Were they all awful candidates? So no, you can NOT pin the blame for Trump on the Dems.

GOP absolutely owns Trump (I blame the media for a lot of his rise in the primary, mind you, but the primary voter still chose the way they did).

But pretending that Trump would have won against a normal, decent candidate in the General isn't tenable.

Trump is 100% the fault of the Republican Party and the rabid RW base that voted for him.

OTC, Trump's base was not all that RW. It was populist, and a lot of it was Democrat.

 

[sangha]

Oh my....Trump wants to know if he can pardon himself?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-lawyers-seek-to-undercut-muellers-russia-investigation/2017/07/20/232ebf2c-6d71-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_no-name%3Apage%2Fbreaking-news-bar&tid=a_breakingnews&utm_term=.5bac663472e2

How is this not “obstruction of justice“

They are actively compiling a list of Mueller’s alleged potential conflicts of interest, which they say could serve as a way to stymie his work, according to several of Trump’s legal advisers.

They are explicitly admitting that their actions are designed to interfere with an active FBI investigation

 

[yankintx]

Wonderful. News breaks that Mueller is probing the Trump criminal empire. Trump immediately becomes curious if he has the power to pardon himself.

What the hell has happened to this country?

If Trump is above board, than there is no reason for him, or his supporters to panic. I remember Clinton doing the same thing to Ken Starr's team, and we know how that ended. Mueller and his team of accounting forensic experts will go thru his records with a fine tooth comb. Trump has been audited before, this is similar, though much more in-depth. Sleep well Trumpsters, if your boy has been honest, you can sleep easy. See you at the hearings !!

 

[Moot]

He can't pardon himself.

Dictators in crappy countries can though...but not in the US.

Maybe it depends on who you ask...but almost everything I've heard suggests that he can pardon himself. But pardoning himself wouldn't stop him from being impeached. Nor would it prevent him or his aides from testifying to congress...and if they were pardoned then they couldn't take the fifth.

 

[Moderate Right]

Wonderful. News breaks that Mueller is probing the Trump criminal empire. Trump immediately becomes curious if he has the power to pardon himself.

What the hell has happened to this country?

Hillary pardoned herself. For eight years Obama had a well oiled Democratic partisan machine that pardoned all Democrats from any wrongdoing. They are ingrained so deeply in many departments that Trump hasn't been able to do any more than just scratch the surface.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Hillary pardoned herself. For eight years Obama had a well oiled Democratic partisan machine that pardoned all Democrats from any wrongdoing. They are ingrained so deeply in many departments that Trump hasn't been able to do any more than just scratch the surface.

Hilliary did not receive any such pardon.

 

[Greenbeard]

Hillary pardoned herself. For eight years Obama had a well oiled Democratic partisan machine that pardoned all Democrats from any wrongdoing. They are ingrained so deeply in many departments that Trump hasn't been able to do any more than just scratch the surface.

Truly this post is a monument to the dangers of rightwing infotainment consumption.

 

[Moot]

I never bought the idea that people in the past were more moral then people today, you had slavery of Africans and genocide of Native Americans in Early America, those are bigger sins then anything Trump has done. You also had stuff like the witch trials in Salem, say what you will about modern society, people don't burn witches anymore.

Also I am pretty cynical, so the rose tinted view of the past does nothing for me, in many key ways society has changed, but in many other ways humanity always kinda remains the same.

And parties may be private organizations, but they are ones who form the government and execute government policy, they are not a private institutions the way say Netflix is. The primary system dominates the US political system and frankly it doesn't make a lot of sense. Frankly I think the US public would be happier with a smaller, shorter, less expensive election cycle.

I like that idea, too...but, not sure that a shorter election period would work with a country this size.

 

[Yes_Minister]

I like that idea, too...but, not sure that a shorter election period would work with a country this size.

I don't know, India has a far larger population then the US and they can get their elections done quickly:

http://www.cnbc.com/2014/04/17/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-india-elections.html

I feel like if the primary system must exist (again, its not in the constitution) the perhaps it can be streamlined to be quicker and not have feel like the choice is made before the later states get a chance to decide. But then again career politicians, donors and cable news seem to like the longer election cycle, so I think unless there was a huge demand for change, it won't happen.

 

[Moot]

I don't know, India has a far larger population then the US and they can get their elections done quickly:

http://www.cnbc.com/2014/04/17/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-india-elections.html

I feel like if the primary system must exist (again, its not in the constitution) the perhaps it can be streamlined to be quicker and not have feel like the choice is made before the later states get a chance to decide. But then again career politicians, donors and cable news seem to like the longer election cycle, so I think unless there was a huge demand for change, it won't happen.

I don't know if what works for India would work here, either....simply because the States claim the sovereign right to hold the elections. But in a way that's a good thing because the national elections aren't centralized or controlled by the Federal government (unless you count the Gore v Bush SCOTUS decision)...making it more difficult to rig the national election.