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Trump' s character will be his downfall

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nota bene

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So says Jonah Goldberg, who writes:

Nearly all of the controversies that have bedeviled Trump’s administration are the direct result of his character, not his ideology. To be sure, ideology plays a role, amplifying both the intensity of anger from his left-wing critics and the intensity of his transactional defenders. Many of the liberal critics shrieking about the betrayal of the Kurds implicit in Trump’s decision to withdraw from Syria would be applauding if a President Clinton had made the same decision. And many of the conservatives celebrating the move would be condemning it.

But Trump’s refusal to listen to advisers, his inability to bite his tongue, his demonization and belittling of senators who vote for his agenda but refuse to keep quiet when he does or says things they disagree with, his rants against the First Amendment, his praise for dictators and insults for allies, his need to create new controversies to eclipse old ones, and his inexhaustible capacity to lie and fabricate history: All of this springs from his character. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/trump-character-will-be-his-downfall/
 

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So says Jonah Goldberg, who writes:

Nearly all of the controversies that have bedeviled Trump’s administration are the direct result of his character, not his ideology. To be sure, ideology plays a role, amplifying both the intensity of anger from his left-wing critics and the intensity of his transactional defenders. Many of the liberal critics shrieking about the betrayal of the Kurds implicit in Trump’s decision to withdraw from Syria would be applauding if a President Clinton had made the same decision. And many of the conservatives celebrating the move would be condemning it.

But Trump’s refusal to listen to advisers, his inability to bite his tongue, his demonization and belittling of senators who vote for his agenda but refuse to keep quiet when he does or says things they disagree with, his rants against the First Amendment, his praise for dictators and insults for allies, his need to create new controversies to eclipse old ones, and his inexhaustible capacity to lie and fabricate history: All of this springs from his character. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/trump-character-will-be-his-downfall/

Nancy Pelosi explained it best when she said she didn't even know what was really coming out of the white house for this shutdown. One minute Trump says one thing and then boom, less than a couple of hours he changes his mind. There is no professionalism, courtesy, or stability coming from the White House Administration. This all stems from Trump's lack of good character. He truly is incompetent. Not because of what he says but because he refuses to even listen to those who know better and would rather surround himself with those that are even less competent than him.
 

Mycroft

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So says Jonah Goldberg, who writes:

Nearly all of the controversies that have bedeviled Trump’s administration are the direct result of his character, not his ideology. To be sure, ideology plays a role, amplifying both the intensity of anger from his left-wing critics and the intensity of his transactional defenders. Many of the liberal critics shrieking about the betrayal of the Kurds implicit in Trump’s decision to withdraw from Syria would be applauding if a President Clinton had made the same decision. And many of the conservatives celebrating the move would be condemning it.

But Trump’s refusal to listen to advisers, his inability to bite his tongue, his demonization and belittling of senators who vote for his agenda but refuse to keep quiet when he does or says things they disagree with, his rants against the First Amendment, his praise for dictators and insults for allies, his need to create new controversies to eclipse old ones, and his inexhaustible capacity to lie and fabricate history: All of this springs from his character. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/trump-character-will-be-his-downfall/

All of the attacks on Trump's character stem from the hatred of his attackers. If they didn't hate him, his character wouldn't matter. So instead of damning Trump for his character, we should be asking ourselves why he is hated so much.

(hint: He isn't hated because of his character)
 

lwf

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All of the attacks on Trump's character stem from the hatred of his attackers. If they didn't hate him, his character wouldn't matter. So instead of damning Trump for his character, we should be asking ourselves why he is hated so much.

(hint: He isn't hated because of his character)

Why is he hated?
 

MovingPictures

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Trump's character is not the problem, it's his incompetence.

He's not a competent person - at all. He is an emotional manchild, who bases his decisions on a narcissistic need to be adored. The man can't govern competently in any regard whatsoever. FFS, he doesn't even understand the responsibilities of being president, or how the government actually works.

He was clearly relying on the rest of the administration to do the real work of figuring out policy issues. That worked to keep his presidency above water, but now he's abused and used everybody to the point that nobody wants to work with him, and now his whole WH is crumbling by the day.

This is why Trump has shutdown the government. It's not about the border wall at all. He wants his tough guy image and balls back.
 

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All of the attacks on Trump's character stem from the hatred of his attackers. If they didn't hate him, his character wouldn't matter. So instead of damning Trump for his character, we should be asking ourselves why he is hated so much.

(hint: He isn't hated because of his character)

I disliked him strongly even during his "Apprentice" days. The barely suppressed glee and unabashed aggressiveness with which he liked to to say "You're fired!" made me quite uncomfortable. Normal people aren't like that.
 

Mycroft

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Why is he hated?

The main reason is his threat to people with money and people with political power. A related reason is that he upset the political apple cart by first kicking 16 GOP candidates to the curb and then by kicking Hillary to the curb. Any one of those would have been preferable, in the eyes of the people with money and the people with political power.
 

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The importance of character is one of the conservative ideas I have come to respect. I used to believe that results were the only thing that mattered --and to a large extent, I still see that as the bottom line when evaluating someones performance; Its just no longer the Only Thing-- but starting with bush, I have come to see them as profoundly and inextricably entwined.

And a related matter that I have come around on is the president as a role model. I just could not believe that one. Maybe it is because I do not try to emulate any politician. However, at this time it is undeniable that many do, and mirror the tone and behavior of who sits in the Oval Office.
 
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Rexedgar

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The main reason is his threat to people with money and people with political power. A related reason is that he upset the political apple cart by first kicking 16 GOP candidates to the curb and then by kicking Hillary to the curb. Any one of those would have been preferable, in the eyes of the people with money and the people with political power.


I don’t follow this line of thinking; what “political power?”
 

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He's obviously playing a sophisticated game of three dimensional chess that you're too dim-witted to recognize.








jk...:mrgreen:;)
 

Mycroft

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I disliked him strongly even during his "Apprentice" days. The barely suppressed glee and unabashed aggressiveness with which he liked to to say "You're fired!" made me quite uncomfortable. Normal people aren't like that.

So...you dislike him because you were triggered by his role on a "TV show"?

That sounds rather pathetic to me.

Tell me...do you hate all actors who play villains?
 

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So...you dislike him because you were triggered by a "TV show"?

That sounds rather pathetic to me.

Tell me...do you hate all actors who play villains?

He was playing himself. If you really see nothing wrong with an average of 7 lies a day, meant to incite hatred, fear, bigotry, and anger against all sorts of religious, ethnic, and racial groups of people who are our fellow citizens, not to mention our fellow human beings, and undermining the institutions of democracy on which this country is based, then I really don't know what to say. It's like trying to talk to a cannibal who gives you a puzzled look and can't imagine why anyone can get so worked up because he likes to snack on his neighbors when he gets the munchies.
 

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As to the OP premise, I think it will be Trump’s inability to run the country in the same manner he ran his businesses. He has never had to suffer the consequences of his action. He has had all the branches of government on his side and has not been able to do all he wanted/said he wanted to do. Trump’s character was formed by never being held to account, imo.
 

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His character is what got him elected along with the fact that the Dems had Hillary running against him.

Somehow there has this fad to go against being politically correct and they found a hero in Trump who often has diarrhea of the mouth.

And the term politically correct is an odd one. It has somewhat blurred the lines with just being respectful.

When my son was very young we were in line at the grocery store and there was a dwarf in front of us. I had to almost put my son in a chokehold to get him to stop talking about the dwarf. But in Trump's world it would be okay to mock the guy.
 

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Many of the liberal critics shrieking about the betrayal of the Kurds implicit in Trump’s decision to withdraw from Syria would be applauding if a President Clinton had made the same decision.

Not true at all. I would severely criticize any US president that betrayed a staunch US ally such as Trump has betrayed our Kurdish allies in Syria.

Leaving our allies surrounded on 3 sides by their enemies is abject perfidy. And there is no reason for such a helter-skelter withdrawal. We were doing just fine with a very small boot-print in Syria.

Treachery is treachery, no matter the party affiliation of the president.
 

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I don’t follow this line of thinking; what “political power?”

The political power that is gained from complying with the wishes of interest groups...not to mention the money from those interest groups.

The study’s key findings include:

Compared to economic elites, average voters have a low to nonexistent influence on public policies. “Not only do ordinary citizens not have uniquely substantial power over policy decisions, they have little or no independent influence on policy at all,” the authors conclude.

In cases where citizens obtained their desired policy outcome, it was in fact due to the influence of elites rather than the citizens themselves: “Ordinary citizens might often be observed to ‘win’ (that is, to get their preferred policy outcomes) even if they had no independent effect whatsoever on policy making, if elites (with whom they often agree) actually prevail.”

Regardless of whether a small minority or a large majority of American citizens support a policy, the probability of policy change is nearly the same — approximately 30%.

A proposed policy change with low support among economically elite Americans is adopted only about 18% of the time, while a proposed change with high support is adopted about 45% of the time.

Interest groups have a substantial impact on public policy. When mass-based and business-oriented interest groups oppose a policy, the probability of its being enacted is only 16%, rising to 47% when they’re strongly favorable. “On the 1,357 proposed policy changes for which at least one interest group was coded as favoring or opposing change, in only 36% of the cases did most groups favor change, while in 55% of the cases most groups opposed change.”

Overall, business-oriented groups have almost twice the influence of mass-based groups.

While the popular belief is that professional associations and interest groups serve to aggregate and organize average citizens’ interests, the data do not support this. The preferences of average citizens are positively and highly correlated with the preferences of economic elites but not with those of interest groups. Except for labor unions and the AARP, interest groups do not tend to favor the same policies as average citizens. In fact, some groups’ positions are negatively correlated with the opinion of the average American, as in the case of gun owners.

“The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence,” the scholars conclude, providing “substantial support” for the theories of economic-elite domination and biased pluralism.

https://journalistsresource.org/stu...oups-and-average-voters-on-american-politics/

Trump doesn't play that game. His policies are focused on ALL of America. He doesn't focus on the money people and their lobbyists. That's what Party politicians do, from Congress on down to the local level. Trump is upsetting their apple cart and they DON'T like it.
 

nota bene

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All of the attacks on Trump's character stem from the hatred of his attackers. If they didn't hate him, his character wouldn't matter. So instead of damning Trump for his character, we should be asking ourselves why he is hated so much.

(hint: He isn't hated because of his character)

I don't understand the "instead." I think both questions are valid.
 

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He was playing himself. If you really see nothing wrong with an average of 7 lies a day, meant to incite hatred, fear, bigotry, and anger against all sorts of religious, ethnic, and racial groups of people who are our fellow citizens, not to mention our fellow human beings, and undermining the institutions of democracy on which this country is based, then I really don't know what to say. It's like trying to talk to a cannibal who gives you a puzzled look and can't imagine why anyone can get so worked up because he likes to snack on his neighbors when he gets the munchies.

I'm more interested in Trump's results.

But hey...you go right ahead and get caught up in the Trump hater's nonsense about "character".
 

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He was playing himself. If you really see nothing wrong with an average of 7 lies a day, meant to incite hatred, fear, bigotry, and anger against all sorts of religious, ethnic, and racial groups of people who are our fellow citizens, not to mention our fellow human beings, and undermining the institutions of democracy on which this country is based, then I really don't know what to say. It's like trying to talk to a cannibal who gives you a puzzled look and can't imagine why anyone can get so worked up because he likes to snack on his neighbors when he gets the munchies.
Well said. :thumbs:
 

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I don't understand the "instead." I think both questions are valid.

shrug...

Whatever floats your boat.

As I said, the "character" thing stems from hatred. My question is, why the hatred.
 

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The political power that is gained from complying with the wishes of interest groups...not to mention the money from those interest groups.



Trump doesn't play that game. His policies are focused on ALL of America. He doesn't focus on the money people and their lobbyists. That's what Party politicians do, from Congress on down to the local level. Trump is upsetting their apple cart and they DON'T like it.

You act like a true believer; I think you are more contrarian than anything else. Your statement that Trump is focused on ALL of America, I find incredulous.......
 

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I don’t follow this line of thinking; what “political power?”

Trump is an outsider in Washington, he's not a politician, that's why they hate him. He's doing things his own way and they don't like it.
 

Rexedgar

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Trump is an outsider in Washington, he's not a politician, that's why they hate him. He's doing things his own way and they don't like it.

That post doesn’t address the question. “Doing things his own way” is not what he raised his right hand and swore to do. Those people who hoped to throw sand in the gears should be happy.......
 

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All of the attacks on Trump's character stem from the hatred of his attackers. If they didn't hate him, his character wouldn't matter. So instead of damning Trump for his character, we should be asking ourselves why he is hated so much.

(hint: He isn't hated because of his character)

Wrong, and laughably wrong. The attacks on his character stem from the hatred of his character flaws and the corruption and incompetence that result from them.

I'm pretty certain it's nothing you'd understand.
 

nota bene

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The main reason is his threat to people with money and people with political power. A related reason is that he upset the political apple cart by first kicking 16 GOP candidates to the curb and then by kicking Hillary to the curb. Any one of those would have been preferable, in the eyes of the people with money and the people with political power.

I don't disagree with that. I also don't deny that there is such a malady as "Trump Derangement Syndrome." "_____ Derangement Syndrome" began with Bush 43, and the Obama version was horrible and stupid and this Trump version just frothing-at-the-mouth insane.

But what you aren't talking about are the regular folks like you and me who also have opinions and reasons for them that have nothing at all to do with power or clout. Trying to stifle or deny that there are valid criticisms to be made of Trump and insisting on a knee-jerk defense is just as irrational as those whose hatred of Trump is unreasoning and pathological. As Goldberg says in his article:

Weirdly, it’s gotten to the point that when I say President Trump is not a man of good character, I feel like I should preface it with a trigger warning for many of my fellow conservatives.

Most of the angry responses are clearly rooted in the fact that they do not wish to be reminded of this obvious truth. But others seem to have convinced themselves that Trump is a man of good character, and they take personal offense at the insult, even though I usually offer it as little more than an observation. They rush to rebut the claim, citing banal or debatable propositions: He loves his children! He’s loyal to a fault! He’s authentic! Never mind that many bad men love their children, that loyalty to people or causes unworthy of loyalty is not admirable, and that authentic caddishness is not admirable. Moreover, he is not remotely loyal to his wives or the people who work for him.

What’s most worrisome is that these defenders are redefining good character in Trump’s image, and they end up modeling it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/trump-character-will-be-his-downfall/
 
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