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Transgender policy question

StillBallin75 said:
Maybe it's cause trans students are the ones killing themselves cause they're depressed and/or bullied all the damn time, and cis students are not experiencing the same for being cis.

Jesus Christ it's like the mere thought of potential empathy for a marginalized group sents righties into a goddamn tizzy.

Also "biological gender" isn't a thing.
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Hmm… if “biological gender” is not a “thing” then how can anyone transition from (or to) it?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Science validates the existence of transgender individuals, try again.
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I've made no claim that trans people do not exist, so why do you think asserting that fact is relevant?

The real question is why you think biological gender doesn't exist. Who convinced you of this?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm… if “biological gender” is not a “thing” then how can anyone transition from (or to) it?
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Gender is a psychosocial concept. What OP probably meant to say was "biological sex," which itself is a concept that is fraught with complexity and not simply "penis = boy and vagene = girl."
 
NatMorton said:
I think he must have read somewhere that "gender is a social construct" and stopped thinking after that.
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Don't blame others for your lack of understanding of the terminology. If you are going to discuss transgender issues, get your terminology right. Same as when right-wingers accuse "libs" of not understanding anything about guns before embarking on gun legislation. All you are showing is that you have zero actual grasp of the issue.

What's clear here from you is the typical right-wing tendency to jump to conclusions and prejudice before educating oneself on anything.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Gender is a psychosocial concept. What OP probably meant to say was "biological sex," which itself is a concept that is fraught with complexity and not simply "penis = boy and vagene = girl."
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I'm good with either term, biological gender or biological sex. The dictionary is good with that, too:

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NatMorton said:
I've made no claim that trans people do not exist, so why do you think asserting that fact is relevant?
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Holy **** dude how dense are you. You made a dumb comment about "party of science."

I pointed out that science VALIDATES the existence of transgender individuals, rather than negate it. In other words, the idea that gender identity and biological sex are separate is not anti-science, it is supported by sciencce.
NatMorton said:
The real question is why you think biological gender doesn't exist. Who convinced you of this?
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You meant to say "biological sex." The fact that you used the term "biological gender" instead belies your ignorance on the entire issue.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Don't blame others for your lack of understanding of the terminology. If you are going to discuss transgender issues, get your terminology right. Same as when right-wingers accuse "libs" of not understanding anything about guns before embarking on gun legislation. All you are showing is that you have zero actual grasp of the issue.

What's clear here from you is the typical right-wing tendency to jump to conclusions and prejudice before educating oneself on anything.
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And I think you're struggling to understand that the word "gender" is not restricted to its meaning of gender identity.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Holy **** dude how dense are you. You made a dumb comment about "party of science."

I pointed out that science VALIDATES the existence of transgender individuals, rather than negate it. In other words, the idea that gender identity and biological sex are separate is not anti-science, it is supported by sciencce.

You meant to say "biological sex." The fact that you used the term "biological gender" instead belies your ignorance on the entire issue.
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Yes, and since I never said transgender people don't exist your assertion that they do is of no value to this conversation.

I used the term "biological gender" to be clear and distinguish it from "gender identity," and as is proved above, the term I'm using is also correctly used. If you want to be fussy about it, "biological sex" is redundant, which is why I didn't use it.
 
NatMorton said:
The reality remains this: the trans student feels uncomfortable using a locker room with other students of the same biological gender. The non-trans student feels uncomfortable using a locker room with students of a different biological gender. So here's the question. Why are the trans-student's needs deemed to have the priority, always?
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Here's the issue. Lets change the scenario around a bit. Lets say there's a child with down syndrome or has a gigantic scar on them. The other students complain and feel that person shouldn't be in that locker room because it is uncomfortable to them. Should the school adhere to the wishes of the complaining students or to the disabled person?

Lets that the school has white supremacy students or homophobic students. Should the black/gay/lesbian students be forced to use another room in order to adhere to the beliefs of the white supremacy/homophobic students? We saw a similar scenario after the Brown vs. the Board of Education decision too. As in, why are THOSE PEOPLE allowed in MY SPACE.

So the question becomes, why is a transgender student any different than the disabled/disfigured/black/Jewish/Muslim/gay/lesbian student? The students in the locker room are uncomfortable because _____ ? That's really the question. Why are they uncomfortable?
 
BrotherFease said:
Here's the issue. Lets change the scenario around a bit. Lets say there's a child with down syndrome or has a gigantic scar on them. The other students complain and feel that person shouldn't be in that locker room because it is uncomfortable to them. Should the school adhere to the wishes of the complaining students or to the disabled person?

Lets that the school has white supremacy students or homophobic students. Should the black/gay/lesbian students be forced to use another room in order to adhere to the beliefs of the white supremacy/homophobic students? We saw a similar scenario after the Brown vs. the Board of Education decision too. As in, why are THOSE PEOPLE allowed in MY SPACE.

So the question becomes, why is a transgender student any different than the disabled/disfigured/black/Jewish/Muslim/gay/lesbian student? The students in the locker room are uncomfortable because _____ ? That's really the question. Why are they uncomfortable?
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For now, no, let's not change the scenario as I don't think it's fair to liken trans people with the mentally disabled. Let's discuss the scenario in the OP. Why must priority always be given to the needs of the trans student in these cases?
 
NatMorton said:
Yes, and since I never said transgender people don't exist your assertion that they do is of no value to this conversation.

I used the term "biological gender" to be clear and distinguish it from "gender identity," and as is proved above, the term I'm using is also correctly used. If you want to be fussy about it, "biological sex" is redundant, which is why I didn't use it.
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You're using the term incorrectly. This is from the APA manual:
Sex is assigned at birth, refers to one’s biological status as either male or female, and is associated primarily with physical attributes such as chromosomes, hormone prevalence, and external and internal anatomy. Gender refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for boys and men or girls and women. These influence the ways that people act, interact, and feel about themselves. While aspects of biological sex are similar across different cultures, aspects of gender may differ.
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NatMorton said:
I've taken grad-level biology courses at an Ivy League school, you?
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Oh for ****'s sake here we go. I point out PSYCHOLOGY textbook and you start going off about "i'Ve TaKeN GrAd". Jesus Christ.

Anyone who is well-versed in the subject of transgender issues does NOT use the term "biological gender." That is an oxymoron. The proper terms are "gender identity" vs. "biological sex."

If you're so goddamn brilliant, PLEASE tell us the "biological" definition of gender. Matter of fact, **** that, just please educate yourself.

https://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/sexuality-definitions.pdf
 
NatMorton said:
For now, no, let's not change the scenario as I don't think it's fair to liken trans people with the mentally disabled. Let's discuss the scenario in the OP. Why must priority always be given to the needs of the trans student in these cases?
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I am comparing a transgender person to a wide range of minority groups. What is the difference students complaining about a transgender student to other kinds of minority students? That's the question at hand. Should the complaints from homophones and racist trump the rights of the minority? My answer to your question lies within this example.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Oh for ****'s sake here we go. I point out PSYCHOLOGY textbook and you start going off about "i'Ve TaKeN GrAd". Jesus Christ.

Anyone who is well-versed in the subject of transgender issues does NOT use the term "biological gender." That is an oxymoron. The proper terms are "gender identity" vs. "biological sex."

If you're so goddamn brilliant, PLEASE tell us the "biological" definition of gender. Matter of fact, **** that, just please educate yourself.

https://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/sexuality-definitions.pdf
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That's nice.

Now do you want to take a shot at the question in the OP or would you rather keep playing sematic whack-a-mole?
 
NatMorton said:
And by the way, regardless of who says it, the assertion that "sex is assigned a birth" is blithering nonsense. It's set at conception.
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That's a bunch of bullshit. You either didn't pay attention in your "grad-level" bio courses or you're so damn old that the information is outdated. There exist a not insignificant portion of people who are intersex or are otherwise sexually ambigous at birth that are often ASSIGNED a sex at birth in order to conform to a gender binary. 1.7 percent of the population is intersex.

Guess what's often done to those individuals? Yep you guessed it, those kids often get surgery performed on them shortly after birth. Talk about "mutilating ones genitals" in the service of conforming to a gender binary.
 
BrotherFease said:
I am comparing a transgender person to a wide range of minority groups. What is the difference students complaining about a transgender student to other kinds of minority students? That's the question at hand. Should the complaints from homophones and racist trump the rights of the minority? My answer to your question lies within this example.
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Sorry, no. The question in the OP is what it is. You can attempt to answer it, or not; it's your choice. Attempts to deflect the conversation will not work.
 
NatMorton said:
And by the way, regardless of who says it, the assertion that "sex is assigned a birth" is blithering nonsense. It's set at conception.
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Sex is assigned at birth. Again, you were using the word terminology. Gender is social. Sex is biological. Care to answer my question?
 
StillBallin75 said:
That's a bunch of bullshit. You either didn't pay attention in your "grad-level" bio courses or you're so damn old that the information is outdated. There exist a not insignificant portion of people who are intersex or are otherwise sexually ambigous at birth that are often ASSIGNED a sex at birth in order to conform to a gender binary. 1.7 percent of the population is intersex.
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Of course there are exceptions where genetic defects come into play, but for the overwhelming majority of humans (and of all higher life forms), sex is set at conception. "Assigned" is a propaganda word.

Were the child to be born with six toes on one foot, would the doctor turn to the parents and say "I'm sorry, I've assigned your child a birth defect?"
 
NatMorton said:
Sorry, no. The question in the OP is what it is. You can attempt to answer it, or not; it's your choice. Attempts to deflect the conversation will not work.
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I did answer your question. Why are students uncomfortable with a transgender person in the locker room?
 
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