Transgender policy question

[Nomad4Ever]

It's been noted on Twitter today that my home state's DOE has a policy that allows a public school student to use the locker room of their choice, i.e. the gender-specific locker room that they (the student) believes best matches their gender identity. The MA DOE goes further to say if other students feel uncomfortable about that, their best resource is counseling to 'foster understanding gender identity;" i.e. go to reeducation camp.

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The reality remains this: the trans student feels uncomfortable using a locker room with other students of the same biological gender. The non-trans student feels uncomfortable using a locker room with students of a different biological gender. So here's the question. Why are the trans-student's needs deemed to have the priority, always?

One of the main talking points against desegregation was that it made White women uncomfortable (especially regarding locker rooms). It was said the Black women's comfort was being prioritized over the conform of White women. It's aways the same arguments I swear to god. Echoing throughout history. The comfort of the bigoted has no bearing on the morality of an action.

Basically, they can get over it.

 

[Mithrae]

One of the main talking points against desegregation was that it made White women uncomfortable (especially regarding locker rooms). It was said the Black women's comfort was being prioritized over the conform of White women. It's aways the same arguments I swear to god. Echoing throughout history. The comfort of the bigoted has no bearing on the morality of an action.

Basically, they can get over it.

Playing devil's advocate, would it therefore be appropriate to desegregate gendered bathrooms entirely, regardless of potential objections of women's comfort?

 

[Lisa]

It's been noted on Twitter today that my home state's DOE has a policy that allows a public school student to use the locker room of their choice, i.e. the gender-specific locker room that they (the student) believes best matches their gender identity. The MA DOE goes further to say if other students feel uncomfortable about that, their best resource is counseling to 'foster understanding gender identity;" i.e. go to reeducation camp.

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The reality remains this: the trans student feels uncomfortable using a locker room with other students of the same biological gender. The non-trans student feels uncomfortable using a locker room with students of a different biological gender. So here's the question. Why are the trans-student's needs deemed to have the priority, always?

I don't see anything about a reeducation camp. Tolerance for others, especially vulnerable minorities is expected part of any morally mature person.

^^^ no doubt a member of the "party of science."

Biological gender is secondary in importance for determining a person's functional gender to their psychological gender identity because if it wasn't then transgendered people would not exist. Is this a problem for you? Would you like me to go into detail in explaining psychological gender identity?

 

[NatMorton]

I did answer your question. Why are students uncomfortable with a transgender person in the locker room?

For the same reason men's and women's dressing facilities have typically been separated for 100's (maybe 1000's) of years. It's a cultural norm. Women, in particular, often feel uncomfortable being undressed in front of strange men. Maybe you've noticed this somewhere along the way?

And no, you did not answer the question. You tried to ask a different question as a means of deflecting us away from the point of the OP.

 

[NatMorton]

Basically, they can get over it.

Why must it be the non-trans student that has to "get over it?" Additionally, why does the DOE not recommend counseling for the trans student to gain a better understanding of non-trans people?

 

[pocket aces]

Maybe it's cause trans students are the ones killing themselves cause they're depressed and/or bullied all the damn time, and cis students are not experiencing the same for being cis.

Jesus Christ it's like the mere thought of potential empathy for a marginalized group sents righties into a goddamn tizzy.

Also "biological gender" isn't a thing.

Well they want to kick them all back into the closet because their small brains can't handle someone different than them.

 

[Lisa]

Why must it be the non-trans student that has to "get over it?" Additionally, why does the DOE not recommend counseling for the trans student to gain a better understanding of non-trans people?

Is a trans student just supposed to get over being harassed and beaten up by bigots? Should black people just get over being targeted by Klan members and Nazis as well? What is it about trans people that bother you so much? Trans people have always existed and they are a non-issue to the vast majority because they just want to live their lives in peace and safety, but you seem to have a problem with them.

Is ethical the concept of treating others as you would want them to treat you offensive to you?

 

[NatMorton]

I don't see anything about a reeducation camp. Tolerance for others, especially vulnerable minorities is expected part of any morally mature person.

Where's the tolerance for the non-trans student in this case?

Biological gender is secondary in importance for determining a person's functional gender to their psychological gender identity because if it wasn't then transgendered people would not exist. Is this a problem for you? Would you like me to go into detail in explaining psychological gender identity?

Whether it's a problem for me is immaterial. I have not been subject to the MA DOEs dictates for decades. The fact is that it's a problem for some non-trans students, today. So I ask again, why are their needs only a secondary concern?

 

[NatMorton]

Is a trans student just supposed to get over being harassed and beaten up by bigots? Should black people just get over being targeted by Klan members and Nazis as well? What is it about trans people that bother you so much? Trans people have always existed and they are a non-issue to the vast majority because they just want to live their lives in peace and safety, but you seem to have a problem with them.

Is ethical the concept of treating others as you would want them to treat you offensive to you?

This reg is not limited to trans students who've been beaten up. And non-trans students who've been beaten up for other reasons are not given the same consideration.

Though you do ask a good question. Why is it ethical to disregard the wants and needs of someone simply because they are not trans?

 

[Lisa]

Where's the tolerance for the non-trans student in this case?


Whether it's a problem for me is immaterial. I have not been subject to the MA DOEs dictates for decades. The fact is that it's a problem for some non-trans students, today. So I ask again, why are their needs only a secondary concern?

How are trans people not tolerating CIS people? Or are they supposed to tolerate your transphobic bigotry? They are just asking to be left alone and treated like you treat other white people but you seem to have a problem with that as equals.

This reg is not limited to trans students who've been beaten up. And non-trans students who've been beaten up for other reasons are not given the same consideration.

Though you do ask a good question. Why is it ethical to disregard the wants and needs of someone simply because they are not trans?

What are the wants and needs of CIS people that are not also shared by trans people? What do you think that they want? Would you support a caste system where white heterosexual CIS people are at the top and others in a sequential fashion below them, so you don't have to treat minorities as equals or even acknowledge that they exist as humans?

 

[NatMorton]

How are trans people not tolerating CIS people? Or are they supposed to tolerate your transphobic bigotry? They are just asking to be left alone and treated like you treat other white people but you seem to have a problem with that as equals.

The trans student and the MA DOE are showing no tolerance for the non-trans student's desire to share locker room facilities with only those of their same sex. A tolerance you lack as well.

 

[Lisa]

The trans student and the MA DOE are showing no tolerance for the non-trans student's desire to share locker room facilities with only those of their same sex. A tolerance you lack as well.

What tolerance are they supposed to be showing?

Maybe you should stop staring at the crotches of others. That would be a start. That is more than a little creepy on your part. The possibility of a unisex bathroom is probably terrifying to you.

 

[Lovebug]

I don't know, teenagers, regardless of gender policies, are probably loving the policy. Not sure if that is a good thing.

 

[Phys251]

It's been noted on Twitter today that my home state's DOE has a policy that allows a public school student to use the locker room of their choice, i.e. the gender-specific locker room that they (the student) believes best matches their gender identity. The MA DOE goes further to say if other students feel uncomfortable about that, their best resource is counseling to 'foster understanding gender identity;" i.e. go to reeducation camp.

View attachment 67387965

The reality remains this: the trans student feels uncomfortable using a locker room with other students of the same biological gender. The non-trans student feels uncomfortable using a locker room with students of a different biological gender. So here's the question. Why are the trans-student's needs deemed to have the priority, always?

The question at the end that the OP writer himself highlighted is a classic example of transphobia.

Righties are under the delusion that trans people want something in addition to what cis people want.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Trans people just want to live in peace and safety, same as cis people.

To suggest that trans people want any special privileges is a transphobic lie.

 

[Phys251]

I don't know, teenagers, regardless of gender policies, are probably loving the policy. Not sure if that is a good thing.

You're right: young people are overall more tolerant of trans people than old people are. Times have changed.

 

[ecofarm]

Holy **** dude how dense are you. You made a dumb comment about "party of science."

I pointed out that science VALIDATES the existence of transgender individuals, rather than negate it. In other words, the idea that gender identity and biological sex are separate is not anti-science, it is supported by sciencce.

You meant to say "biological sex." The fact that you used the term "biological gender" instead belies your ignorance on the entire issue.

How does the thread not end right there. It's amazing that people will be belligerent in complete ignorance.

 

[Lovebug]

You're right: young people are overall more tolerant of trans people than old people are. Times have changed.

They also have some raging hormones.

 

[Phys251]

They also have some raging hormones.

Appeal to age fallacy. I could just as easily say that with age comes prejudice.

 

[Lovebug]

Appeal to age fallacy. I could just as easily say that with age comes prejudice.

 

[NatMorton]

What tolerance are they supposed to be showing?

Maybe you should stop staring at the crotches of others. That would be a start. That is more than a little creepy on your part. The possibility of a unisex bathroom is probably terrifying to you.

Are you going to sit there and pretend there aren't substantial number of women, in particular, who are uncomfortable dressing in front of a biological man in a public locker room?

 

[NatMorton]

The question at the end that the OP writer himself highlighted is a classic example of transphobia.

Righties are under the delusion that trans people want something in addition to what cis people want.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Trans people just want to live in peace and safety, same as cis people.

To suggest that trans people want any special privileges is a transphobic lie.

And someone else who cannot (really will not) answer the question directly.

 

[NatMorton]

How does the thread not end right there. It's amazing that people will be belligerent in complete ignorance.

^^^ fear.

 

[Phys251]

And someone else who cannot (really will not) answer the question directly.

It was worse than a "when will you stop beating your wife?" question. It was a "why does my wife deserve to stop getting beaten?" kind of question, and you asked it.

 

[Lisa]

Are you going to sit there and pretend there aren't substantial number of women, in particular, who are uncomfortable dressing in front of a biological man in a public locker room?

That trans female biological male is functionally a female, or don't you understand this? The fact that she has a penis doesn't make her male with male drives but you don't seem to get able to get beyond visuals. She may have a penis(non-functional because of HRT) but she has the same feelings and drives as a CIS female. That is what makes her transgender. How do you not understand this idea? Trans people are not just playing dress-up. That trans girl is no more of a threat to any female in the locker room than a lesbian classmate. Do you want to have separate locker rooms/bathrooms for heterosexuals and lesbian females? She is 10x more likely to be the victim of crime than she is to be the aggressor, but you don't even see her as human, so that doesn't matter to you.

Do you want to put trans guys in the girl's bathroom because they were born biologically female or did you forget that they exist in your transphobic targeting of trans females?

 

[NatMorton]

You're right: young people are overall more tolerant of trans people than old people are. Times have changed.

You're confused. It's the young, non-trans students today who are subject to this policy and who are not being shown tolerance. They are the one subject to this policy, not me, and not people my age.