Third night of unrest in Sweden over far-right anti-Islam rally

[Tender Branson]

Sweden will have a parliamentary election on September 11, to elect a new 4 year term.

The current government is a S (or SAP) minority government, led by Social Democrat Magdalena Andersson.

After the 2018 election, it was a Red-Green minority government, but after Andersson took over last year, the Greens left.

Andersson is now the most popular politician in Sweden with 65% approval and her S(AP) has risen to 32-33% in the polls, up 3% from 2018, while the Greens have fallen below the 4% threshold in polls and might not get any seats in the next parliament as a result.

Following the S(AP), the conservative Moderate Party gets around 20%, while the far-right SD (Sweden Democrats) get 18-20% in polling.

Then there are a few minor parties, such as the Center Party or the Left Party, the Liberals, the Christian Democrats or the Greens.

In Swedish politics, there are usually 2 blocks made up of the Left and Right and the parties above.

The Left block is polling around 51% right now, the Right block at around 48%.

But the full blocks hardly materialize after an election to govern together, because some party falls below 4% and gets no seats, or ideological differences mean they cannot work together as a government. For example, the neo-Nazi Sweden Democrats are in the Right block, but they are pariahs on several issues and even the conservative Moderate Party etc. don't want to work with them.

Also in the Left block, where the Greens abandoned the new Andersson government.

That is why Sweden and other Scandinavian countries often have minority governments, who get tolerated by the opposition parties and get their support on individual laws being passed.

Sweden has very high turnout in elections of 85-90%, despite having a 30% migrant background.

This means that their integration effort for migrants is not so bad as described by the far-right propaganda.

 

[Davin]

Burning the flag should be a crime. Some speech should not be free. Speech communicating athiesm for example should be criminal and not covered under free speech, which is what John Locke himself wrote

Aw so you’re the resident theocracy supporter got it. Against freedom unless it’s freedom YOU want. I would say you are closer to an authoritarian but you seem to want a theocracy in the US. Of course your religion will be the only one allowed right?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Aw so you’re the resident theocracy supporter got it.

I don’t understand what is theocratic about punishing those who shows rejection of the political order.

Against freedom unless it’s freedom

Not one of the founding fathers would say burning the flag is part of freedom if you asked

YOU want. I would say you are closer to an authoritarian but you seem to want a theocracy in the US.

No I don’t.

Of course your religion will be the only one allowed right?

I think a religion should be legally preferred with toleration given to other denominations depending on their willingness to follow rules.

 

[Tender Branson]

Also:

There has been no terror attack in Europe in what now ? Years ?

Despite millions of refugees from Muslim countries coming.

Refugees that came in 2015 initially had their cultural problems, and there were even terrorists among them (Paris, Germany etc.) in the first years - but it seems the VAST majority of them are now integrating well into Swedish, German or Austrian society, countries to which the bulk of Muslims came.

But actions of neo-Nazis like this and their incitement of hatred by burning a beloved religious book is very counterproductive to integration efforts by local communities and charitable organizations.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Have you ever read the christian bible with all of its exhortations to slay unbelievers?

Where are Christians told to kill unbelievers?

 

[Tender Branson]

I haven't followed this story. Is Sweden letting in hundreds of thousands of Muslims like America is letting in hundreds of thousands of Mexicans? Are the Swedes being pissed at their government because of that?

They are letting them in, yes, in numbers even far bigger than the US is letting in Mexicans and others.

Sweden is a country of 10.5 million, which is growing by 100.000 a year.

In US terms, that would be +3.3 million a year (it was +400.000 last year).

But Swedes are not pissed about their government about it: the far-right Trumpish Sweden Democrats party is polling 18% for the September election. If they were really pissed about all the immigrants, they'd get 50% or more, not 18%.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

They are letting them in, yes, in numbers even far bigger than the US is letting in Mexicans and others.

Sweden is a country of 10.5 million, which is growing by 100.000 a year.

In US terms, that would be +3.3 million a year (it was +400.000 last year).

But Swedes are not pissed about their government about it: the far-right Trumpish Sweden Democrats party is polling 18% for the September election. If they were really pissed about all the immigrants, they'd get 50% or more, not 18%.

The regime uses full institutional control to shape the narrative with false information, fake news like claiming the Sweden Democrats espouse national socialism

 

[aociswundumho]

The current government is a S (or SAP) minority government, led by Social Democrat Magdalena Andersson.

This means that their integration effort for migrants is not so bad as described by the far-right propaganda.

I don't see much racial integration in that picture.

 

[Tender Branson]

The regime uses full institutional control to shape the narrative with false information, fake news like claiming the Sweden Democrats espouse national socialism

You are referring to a democratic minority government that holds 30% of seats in parliament as a "regime" ?

Stop kidding me.

And yes, the SD espouse national socialism. They are the Sweden Nazi Party, together with this new Danish-based Stram Kurs party.

 

[Tender Branson]

I don't see much racial integration in that picture.

The leftwing Swedish parties have a higher number or share of immigrants in their membership or politicians.

But maybe the current crop in the SAP consists more of regular ethnic Swedes, not sure. You don't have to always have a big amount of immigrants in government if there are other qualified people.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You are referring to a democratic minority government that holds 30% of seats in parliament as a "regime" ?

Like most countries in the west, Sweden is not governed by the King and the elected Government, but a whole apparatus of of civil service workers, university professors, and government funded NGO agitators.

This is the regime.

Stop kidding me.

And yes, the SD espouse national socialism. They are the Sweden Nazi Party, together with this new Danish-based Stram Kurs party.

They are not anything like the Nazis

 

[Tender Branson]

I don't see much racial integration in that picture.

Upon looking into it, it seems 2 of the 23 SAP government members on the picture are of Iranian origin.

That is a 9% migrant share in the government. Not too bad.

 

[Tender Branson]

They are not anything like the Nazis

They talk like Nazis, they walk and agitate and burn books like the original Nazis. They are Nazis.

I am from Austria, I recognize a Nazi when I see one.

 

[Tender Branson]

Like most countries in the west, Sweden is not governed by the King and the elected Government, but a whole apparatus of of civil service workers, university professors, and government funded NGO agitators.

This is the regime.

Bullsh*t.

People in Sweden and elsewhere form their own opinions, they are not dependent on opinions of civil servants.

People (ethnic Swedes) live next to immigrants and talk with them on a regular basis and they understand that 99.9% of them are no extremists, or rapists or terrorists or welfare collectors.

That is why their impression of immigrants is not so bad. They also see most of them as a benefit to society, because they enrich the culture and make the population younger. Sweden is growing greyer and immigrants (if educated in care of the old) can take care of them in the rural areas.

In fact, it is the Sweden Democrats voters, the Trumpists there, who have had no real contact with immigrants and project negative things on them for no reason ...

 

[MaryP]

The far right just can't get along with people. In Sweden, it's Muslims; in America, it's blacks; in Ukraine, it's Russians. Jesus.

 

[aociswundumho]

But maybe the current crop in the SAP consists more of regular ethnic Swedes, not sure.

To me, that picture looks aggressively white.

You don't have to always have a big amount of immigrants in government if there are other qualified people.

So you believe white Swedes can represent brown Muslims? That sounds both presumptuous and racist.

 

[Court Jester]

The idea that if Muslims doesn’t like blatant bigotry aimed at their religion it’s somehow their fault for immigrating to a country which has bigots.....is laughably stupid.

They feel disrespected all they wish to, however, the burning and vandalizing is THEIR FAULT, and that is no disputable. They have no right to commit
crimes just because their feelings are hurt.

In case you hadn’t noticed, something can be “technically” legal and still be utterly vile.

Yeah, so what? In a free democracy we are supposed to be able withstand opposing views without resorting to violence. And besides, "utterly vile" is subjective.
One side of this I'm sure feels strongly that Islamic religious beliefs are "utterly vile" and hence why they burned a Koran in protest of Islam.

Given the number of conservatives who defend the January 6th rampage to this day, you REALLY don’t have room to talk bud.

Irrelevant to this discussion. Ever hear the term, two wrongs don't make a right?

As I said before, you clinging to technicalities is not an excuse, no matter how much you wail.

It isn't a technicality. Burning a Koran is free speech. Burning police cars and businesses is not.

 

[Tigerace117]

They feel disrespected all they wish to, however, the burning and vandalizing is THEIR FAULT, and that is no disputable. They have no right to commit
crimes just because their feelings are hurt.


Yeah, so what? In a free democracy we are supposed to be able withstand opposing views without resorting to violence. And besides, "utterly vile" is subjective.
One side of this I'm sure feels strongly that Islamic religious beliefs are "utterly vile" and hence why they burned a Koran in protest of Islam.



Irrelevant to this discussion. Ever hear the term, two wrongs don't make a right?

It isn't a technicality. Burning a Koran is free speech. Burning police cars and businesses is not.

Considering how many Republicans still defend the January 6th rampage to this day, your sputtering is rather meaningless. Funny how conservatives are totally fine with their buddies rampaging over their feelings being hurt by Donnie Draft Dodger’s defeat, yet are suddenly “horrified” when a bunch of bigots’ actions produce backlash.

Hate to break it to you bud but desecrating a religious text is pretty ****ing vile. Nothing subjective about that. And being in a free democracy is NOT freedom from consequences. Not sure why you lot can’t figure that out.

What a surprise, a bunch of Nazi scumbags hate Muslims. That’s not an excuse bud.

Yet you’d be outraged if a bunch of Muslims ran around burning Bibles and pissing on church altars, so spare us the bullshit.

 

[Tender Branson]

To me, that picture looks aggressively white.

So you believe white Swedes can represent brown Muslims? That sounds both presumptuous and racist.

Of course.

A man can also be Minister for Women.

Or a 35 year old can also be a Minister for Pensions or retired people.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Considering how many Republicans still defend the January 6th rampage to this day, your sputtering is rather meaningless. Funny how conservatives are totally fine with their buddies rampaging over their feelings being hurt by Donnie Draft Dodger’s defeat, yet are suddenly “horrified” when a bunch of bigots’ actions produce backlash.

Donald Trump didn’t dodge the draft, he was examined and deemed 4F for bone Spurs, if you show up at a recruiting station today and have that they will refuse you enlistment. There are many people who’ve been refused enlistment for bone Spurs. Why would you draft someone with a condition that you wouldn’t accept a volunteer with?

Hate to break it to you bud but desecrating a religious text is pretty ****ing vile. Nothing subjective about that. And being in a free democracy is NOT freedom from consequences. Not sure why you lot can’t figure that out.

It certainly is vile, which is why it should be a criminal act, the real thing is though is leftists will tolerate the vilest persecution of Christians while encouraging Muslims to violence in response to minimal provocation.

What a surprise, a bunch of Nazi scumbags hate Muslims. That’s not an excuse bud.

The actual Nazis worked very closely together with Muslims m.

Yet you’d be outraged if a bunch of Muslims ran around burning Bibles and pissing on church altars, so spare us the bullshit.

Well violence against Christians and churches by muslim extremists is routine in France and it’s not even talked about the media.

 

[Court Jester]

Considering how many Republicans still defend the January 6th rampage to this day, your sputtering is rather meaningless.

Not sure why you are bringing that up to me? I never defended the parts of the January 6th incident which included rioting, vandalizing, trespassing, or assault. I was very clear that I believed MORE of those people of that smaller element of troublemakers should have been shot. Anyone who did not riot, trespass, or any of that, then of course, those protests were fine. I even defended the capitol police officer who was forced to shoot Ashli Babbit. She could have had a bomb in that backpack.

So again, why are you bringing up Jan 6 to me?

Funny how conservatives are totally fine with their buddies rampaging over their feelings being hurt by Donnie Draft Dodger’s defeat, yet are suddenly “horrified” when a bunch of bigots’ actions produce backlash.

So let me get this straight, because you seem to be talking out of both of your ends. Muslims rampaging and burning because they have hurt feelings is excusable, but assholes rampaging and damaging the capitol building are not okay?

Do you realize how silly you are sounding?

Hate to break it to you bud but desecrating a religious text is pretty ****ing vile. Nothing subjective about that.

When somebody goes to a book store and buys a book they then OWN that book. What they decide to do with that book is then their business whether you or I like it or not.
The owner(s) of those books have property rights. Burning them or dipping them in pig shit may be offensive to some people, but those people in a FREE SOCIETY have to accept that. We are talking about Sweden, not Saudi Arabia or Iran.

And being in a free democracy is NOT freedom from consequences. Not sure why you lot can’t figure that out.

You are confused here. Nobody is free from the consequences of ILLEGAL acts. Burning a Koran is not illegal. Burning a police car is.

What a surprise, a bunch of Nazi scumbags hate Muslims. That’s not an excuse bud.

I thought you were the big history buff? I recall the Nazis actually siding with radical Islamism during WW2 and visa versa.

Yet you’d be outraged if a bunch of Muslims ran around burning Bibles and pissing on church altars, so spare us the bullshit.

They are free to burn any bibles they have purchased and which they own. That would not affect me in anyway. And besides, plenty of atheists and wiccans already do that kind of stuff all the time in some of their protests, and have a legal right to do so.

Pissing on church alters is something different. That would be trespassing, malicious mischief, and possibly vandalism. That is not protected, that would be illegal.


Tune in anytime Tiggerace for more instruction on the laws, I am happy to school you as needed.

 

[Court Jester]

You mean like they did for centuries (not the flying part of course), and still do in some countries... like burn witches in Nigeria?

The current news topic is about what violent Muslims are doing in Sweden. If you want to talk about the history of religious extremism, that would be in a history thread topic.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You mean like they did for centuries (not the flying part of course), and still do in some countries... like burn witches in Nigeria?

Death by immolation is certainly a steep punishment for witchcraft. It should only be minimal prison and repentance.

 

[Tigerace117]

Donald Trump didn’t dodge the draft, he was examined and deemed 4F for bone Spurs, if you show up at a recruiting station today and have that they will refuse you enlistment. There are many people who’ve been refused enlistment for bone Spurs. Why would you draft someone with a condition that you wouldn’t accept a volunteer with?

It certainly is vile, which is why it should be a criminal act, the real thing is though is leftists will tolerate the vilest persecution of Christians while encouraging Muslims to violence in response to minimal provocation.

The actual Nazis worked very closely together with Muslims m.

Well violence against Christians and churches by muslim extremists is routine in France and it’s not even talked about the media.

Nope.

Trump made up injury to dodge Vietnam service, his former lawyer testifies

Michael Cohen told lawmakers that Trump said it would be 'stupid' to serve in Vietnam.

www.militarytimes.com

Did Trump dodge the Vietnam War draft?

Claim: Trump avoided military service during the Vietnam War. Rating: This claim is TRUE. Trump never served in the Vietnam War or in the military. For over a decade during the Vietnam War, Trump sought and received five deferments, including allegedly lying about a medical condition to avoid the dr

vietfactcheck.org

Your desperation to excuse Donnie Draft Dodger doesn’t change the facts.

Desecrating a Koran is not a “minor provocation”.

Which were dwarfed by the number of Christian collaborators. People like, gee, the Ustase in Croatia, who were so psychotic even the Heer was appalled, or the similar Iron Guard in Romania.

Jasenovac concentration camp - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ustaše - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Iron Guard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Good luck proving that negative

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The idea that if Muslims doesn’t like blatant bigotry aimed at their religion it’s somehow their fault for immigrating to a country which has bigots.....is laughably stupid.

It’s partly their fault for emigrating, and also partly the fault of the political leadership of Sweden for admitting them in the first place. In any event Sweden somehow existed for centuries without Muslims and suddenly now they show up and they’re the ones who have to be catered to?

In case you hadn’t noticed, something can be “technically” legal and still be utterly vile.

Sure, but that misses the point.

Given the number of conservatives who defend the January 6th rampage to this day, you REALLY don’t have room to talk bud

The electoral justice protest is one of the greatest events in history m.

As I said before, you clinging to technicalities is not an excuse, no matter how much you wail.

Blah blah